Boy Scouts of America bans water gun fights; ‘pointing a firearm’ is not kind

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**Jihadin**

The Boy Scouts of America, an organization with semi-military origins, has put out approved activities for its members, and water gun fights are strictly prohibited.

A blog for the organization’s leaders said May 6 that pointing simulated firearms at people is not allowed.

“Why the rule? A Scouter once told me this explanation I liked quite a bit: A Scout is kind. What part of pointing a firearm [simulated or otherwise] at someone is kind?” said Bryan Wendell on the scouting website.

The rule is clarified in the Boy Scouts of America National Shooting Manual, which says “For water balloons, use small, biodegradable balloons, and fill them no larger than a ping pong ball. […] Water guns and rubber band guns must only be used to shoot at targets, and eye protection must be worn.”

The manual includes a lengthy list of other prohibited items — boomerangs, crossbows, potato guns, spear guns and throwing stars. Scouts also may not use “marshmallow shooters that require placing a straw or similar device in the mouth.”

The Scouting movement began in the early 20th century Britain under the tutelage of Lt. Gen. Robert Baden-Powell, who wrote the first “Scouting for Boys” manual.

Baden-Powell learned from his military experiences in India and southern Africa that young soldiers often lacked outdoor-survival skills. He also cited the Mafeking Cadet Corps, a group of adolescent and pre-adolescent boys that he used to great success during the Second Boer War siege of that town. The boys eagerly took on such essential military duties as couriers and intelligence, freeing older soldiers for more-demanding tasks.

Numerous critical journalists and bloggers noted that Scouting when they were boys included such activities as bottle rockets, wooden sword fights and Midnight Football, which a Gawker author described as “a sort of combat rugby played in blackout conditions on a hard tile floor.”

Negative feedback flowed into the comments section of the blog, complaining of political correctness, of “turning boys into a bunch of wusses,” and of an out-of-touch national leadership.

“This makes BSA look ridiculous and has little if any impact on safety,” said Gary Holeiwnski.

“Sometimes I just have to laugh out loud at how idiotic some things in our society have become. We can’t squirt each other with water guns because it is a ‘simulated’ gun. I can’t believe BSA is so worried about the PC police that it has a policy like this,” added commenter Gary USMC.

“Yes, let’s carry every policy to the absurd extreme. That will certainly help scouts shed that geeky image,” added another commenter.

The Boy Scouts of America National Shooting Manual guidelines are to be followed by anyone involved with Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, Venturing, Sea Scouting, or shooting sports committees, the document adds

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/may/19/boy-scouts-of-america-bans-water-gun-fights/#ixzz3ahNtm4z8
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Next thing you know they go after first person shooters digital games.

**whembly**

And another reason why my boys aren't boys scouts.

Pathetic...

**ScootyPuffJunior**

First of all, who gives a gak?

Also, this is from the Washington Times which is borderline Onion at this point. Of course they left out the part that this pointing a firearm (real or simulated) at another person hasn't been allowed in Scouts for years. But hey- why let that stop the feigned outrage over nothing!

**timetowaste85**

Water balloons the size of ping pong balls? Jeez, those'll hurt! Bigger is better (that's what she said!).

Also, no water guns...what about Super Soakers filled with Pepsi? Good times in middle school....

**DarkLink**

When I was a boy scout, we went river rafting, and in the slow areas we'd jump on each other's rafts and "kindly" throw each other in the water.

**infinite_array**

DarkLink wrote:
When I was a boy scout, we went river rafting, and in the slow areas we'd jump on each other's rafts and "kindly" throw each other in the water.

Yeah, but you were all safe because none of you were pointing gun-shaped sticks at each other at the time.

Contrast this with my time in the Indian Guides, when we were told to go out and make weapons (axes, bowes, knives) to burn in a giant bonfire fueled by hairspray soaked banners proclaiming the various tribes. Go Comanches!

**juraigamer**

Well the best time to make gun shaped popsicles is right now, get on it people.

**whembly**

juraigamer wrote:
Well the best time to make gun shaped popsicles is right now, get on it people.

Been there... done that:
http://www.amazon.com/Southern-Homewares-Gun-Cube-Tray/dp/B008BT587M

**inferno445**

I'm a scout, and in my last troop where I lived in Pennsylvania, not only did we beat each other with sticks to the point that some of us bled but we also sat around the campfire telling offensive jokes, stories, etc. with our scoutmaster.

Then I moved south and suddenly I have to open a (denominational, but not sure which) Christian church service without being given an option. We never do anything remotely enjoyable while camping, making it an outdoor classroom instead of time to mess around and enjoy being outdoors, but I'm sticking with it because Eagle Scout looks great on a resume.

If I have a son, I'm not having/letting him join scouts unless they change some more policies, because lately I've realized all it does is enforce many values that I should already be able to show him, or things that I don't believe/think make no sense, like this water gun thing.

**Jihadin**

I see tomorrow male youths a bit "weak" willed

**whembly**

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
First of all, who gives a gak?

I give a gak because of the ongoing wussifications on our boys.

Also, this is from the Washington Times which is borderline Onion at this point. Of course they left out the part that this pointing a firearm (real or simulated) at another person hasn't been allowed in Scouts for years. But hey- why let that stop the feigned outrage over nothing!

Most rules/regulations are set by local chapters.

I think CA has had it for flipping years.

I can see the policy stemming from the idea of gun-safety. Real gunz (or, in my case bb guns)we were drilled with proper gun safety and handling.

The OP is an overreaction, much in the same vein as that kid who got suspended for eating a Pop-tart into a shape of a gun.

**Iron_Captain**

Meanwhile on Russian scout camp:

Russia might be the other extreme end of the spectrum...

But seriously, I do not understand why should you not allow boys to use water guns? A water gun is not a firearm, and using it on people can be very kind on hot days. If everyone is having fun, what is not kind about water guns? They arent dangerous.

**daedalus**

Okay, Eagle Scout here (full disclosure).

My kneejerk at first was to groan about it for similar reasons to Whembly. Thinking further about it, I'm actually kind of ambivalent, and leaning toward the side of thinking it's not that big of a deal, or even a good idea, based upon a series of assumptions I'm making.

Assumption 1: Most boys who are playing with squirt guns are probably the younger ones. They probably won't have used real guns yet. Instilling in them that you don't point guns as people is probably not a bad thing because of assumption 2.

Assumption 2: At some point in their lives, guns will be introduced to them. I did all kinds of rifle/shotgun shooting from about the age of 14 on in the boy scouts. Having a sound sense of "hey, don't feth around with these things" is probably a good idea. I'm not suggesting that boys have an inability to distinguish the real things from the fake ones, simply that it's entirely believable that A boy might have the inability.

Thinking more about it, safety has also always been a super core part of the scouts. They're super uptight about these kids having knifes, and tend to jump their gak if they're even harmlessly out of line about it. I saw it happen to other screwballs that were 'just being boys'. I've always thought it a little excessive, but it's not like this doesn't track with that line of thinking, and that was 14-15 years ago.

There's plenty of other manly things the scouts do.

I did laugh at the water balloon thing. Ping pong ball? Really? That won't break. If anything, that'll hurt more bouncing off the person.

**Jihadin**

There's a huge difference though between a super soaker and real "rifle".

**ScootyPuffJunior**

whembly wrote:
ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
First of all, who gives a gak?

I give a gak because of the ongoing wussifications on our boys.

Quit acting like this (old) "rule" means that no Boy Scout can play with a water gun at any time regardless of whether or not he is at an official Scout function, because it isn't the case. I was a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout and do you know how many times we had water gun fights during a meeting? None. Do you know why? We were too busy learning things in our short meetings than to splash around in the water. When we went camping or canoeing we didn't lug water guns with us, because why the hell would we? I sure as hell wouldn't wanted to have lugged my big ass Super Soaker around in the woods all day. Seriously, get the feth over it.

**hotsauceman1**

whembly wrote:
ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
First of all, who gives a gak?

I give a gak because of the ongoing wussifications on our boys.

Im sorry what?

Also, I used to throw rocks in my boy scouts. When we where having Rock Wars, everyone would find a pebble.
I found like giant river rocks and threw them

**Grey Templar**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
whembly wrote:
ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
First of all, who gives a gak?

I give a gak because of the ongoing wussifications on our boys.

Im sorry what?

Its been happening for a while now. Traditionally masculine activities and behavior are viewed as not cool or outright disallowed.

Toy guns are bright neon colors. Playing cops and robbers is viewed negatively or banned in places where they can(like schools). Roughhousing isn't allowed. etc...

I'm sure whembly has many more examples.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

whembly wrote:

I give a gak because of the ongoing wussifications on our boys.

Also, you get bonus points considering you made that statement on a website where grown men meet to talk about playing pretend battles with toy soldiers.

**hotsauceman1**

Grey Templar wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
whembly wrote:
ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
First of all, who gives a gak?

I give a gak because of the ongoing wussifications on our boys.

Im sorry what?

Its been happening for a while now. Traditionally masculine activities and behavior are viewed as not cool or outright disallowed.

Toy guns are bright neon colors. Playing cops and robbers is viewed negatively or banned in places where they can(like schools). Roughhousing isn't allowed. etc...
.

No, thats just stupid, because we realized two things
1: Masculinity is not defined by violence and hurting people. Infact im surprised we came this far without realizing this
2: Masculinity itself is a socially constructed concept that changes over time.

Not to mention, we also realized toy guns and having people play pretend war is kinda creepy. Kinda indoctrinating actually

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Grey Templar wrote:
Its been happening for a while now. Traditionally masculine activities and behavior are viewed as not cool or outright disallowed.

No it really hasn't. Now, I know the people who feed you your media tell you otherwise but do you know what is cool to boys right now? The same gak that was cool when I was growing up in the 80s: superheros, dinosaurs, video games, chasing after cute girls, fast cars. You would know these things if you have children.

Toy guns are bright neon colors. Playing cops and robbers is viewed negatively or banned in places where they can(like schools). Roughhousing isn't allowed. etc...

Well, when we have "realistic" look guns, cops shoot you. So Nerf guns are "brightly colored" now? Who gives a gak? I would have killed for a Nerf gun like this in the 80s:

Spoiler:

I had to settle for this instead:

Spoiler:

I'm sure whembly has many more examples.

I'll be waiting with bated breath.

**Grey Templar**

Men have natural aggressive tendencies. There is nothing wrong with channeling them. Playing with toy weapons goes back thousands of years. Its perfectly natural.

Its basically saying that thousands of years of masculine ideals are totally wrong and not ok. Its not just saying alternatives are just as good, its actively saying that the established norm is actively bad. And that is wrong.

**hotsauceman1**

Y'know who else have natural aggressive tendencies?
Girls. go one ahead and threaten a moms baby. She will kill you.
I again state. Those natural aggressive tendencies are socially constructed ideals.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Grey Templar wrote:
Men have natural aggressive tendencies. There is nothing wrong with channeling them. Playing with toy weapons goes back thousands of years. Its perfectly natural.

It isn't about aggression, it's about heroism, dominance, and being powerful... all things a small child is not. Those things can and should be separated from aggression.

**Grey Templar**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Y'know who else have natural aggressive tendencies?
Girls. go one ahead and threaten a moms baby. She will kill you.
I again state. Those natural aggressive tendencies are socially constructed ideals.

Socially constructed, over thousands of years. And across different cultures. Maybe there is an underlying aggressive masculine commonality which suggests its not all in the artificial social sphere, but a real basic state of being.

Men are more aggressive than women. This isn't debatable. Sure, women can become very aggressive. In very specific instances.

Playing with weapons and other mock violence isn't a bad thing. Its perfectly natural, and human society has functioned with it since forever.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Men have natural aggressive tendencies. There is nothing wrong with channeling them. Playing with toy weapons goes back thousands of years. Its perfectly natural.
It isn't about aggression, it's about heroism, dominance, and being powerful... all things a small child is not. Those things can and should be separated from aggression.

Why? Why should we just automatically separate it from aggression? Aggression isn't bad in and of itself. There is bad aggression and there is good aggression.

What needs to be done is teach kids where the line is, not that aggression is bad because thats not true.

**hotsauceman1**

Not every society has had men be the violent ones. Several African tribes used women as their warriors.
And no, it isnt worng to play with mock weapons. But y'know what is wrong? Decrying people not wanting to do that as "Wussification"
Besides. we live in a society where that isnt needed anymore. Men dont need to be violent.

**Grey Templar**

Its Wussification when its total banning of the activity, and actively campaigning against it and all related behavior. If all the SJWs got their way they'd extend these stupid zero tolerance policies all the way into our homes. Kids couldn't point fingers in their own yards and say "blam!".

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Grey Templar wrote:
Why? Why should we just automatically separate it from aggression? Aggression isn't bad in and of itself. There is bad aggression and there is good aggression.

What needs to be done is teach kids where the line is, not that aggression is bad because thats not true.

Do you have kids?

Also, there is no such thing as "good aggression.". The word you are looking for is "assertive" and it is pretty damn distinct from aggression. In fact, it's the way to be confident and self-assured without being aggressive. It's a pretty standard and required social more that should be taught to children, not "good aggression."

**Frazzled**

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Why? Why should we just automatically separate it from aggression? Aggression isn't bad in and of itself. There is bad aggression and there is good aggression.

What needs to be done is teach kids where the line is, not that aggression is bad because thats not true.
Do you have kids?

Also, there is no such thing as "good aggression.". The word you are looking for is "assertive" and it is pretty damn distinct from aggression. In fact, it's the way to be confident and self-assured without being aggressive. It's a pretty standard and required social more that should be taught to children, not "good aggression."

Yes. As wee ones the boys were inventing weapons with which to smite their opponents. We supported this as it built arm strength. Thats important when we ship you off to the coal mine at 8.

**Slarg232**

Why ban Water Guns because our kids might think to point a real rifle at someone and not just teach our kids what the difference between a Water Gun and a Rifle is?

**Manchu**

My dad's main hobby over the past forty years has been shooting sports, everything from reloading to hunting to competition shooting of all types. Firearms were an omnipresent feature of my childhood. As a small child, I was not allowed to point toy guns (like cap guns) at people or dogs and doing so was in the Big Deal category of household misdemeanors. Even so, this rule never applied to water guns (I'm talking about super soakers as well as el cheapo transparent plastic ones).

So this strikes me as bs.