Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I'm a long term guard player, had storm troopers( now scions) attached to my guard to give me an elite force and some flexibility. Over time I tried adding marine allies to spice up my playing and add a little more fluff and diversity to my force and try new things. In general I still got bored of marines and am sticking with guard and scions.

I've now decided I would like to start TYRANIDS!!! My arch rivals it started when my buddy and I swapped codexs to play each other against our own armies. I usually run a mix of armored/mech guard and foot guard so I'm used to playing with a large model count. So I decided I was going to go with a monstrous creature based list.

So after playing around with it and having some fun in the game I wanted to try out a monstrous creature mid list.

I am short on money so Forge world models are kinda out of the question. So sorry if you suggest any of them I can't really get them

I was playing around with a 2K list and here's the run down from memory:

HQ
2 flyrants
With twin linked devours, that's the 12 shot guns right???

Troops
Tervigon
30gants
2 ripper swarms

Elites
Zoan brood with neurothrope and 3 zoans
Haruspex

Fast attack
Hive crone

Heavy support
Toxicrene
Carnifex-twinlinked devours
2 of the pods(toxicrene rides in one and zoans ride in other)
Mawloc

So the idea is I wanted to run a lot of larger bugs mainly because I don't want to go the whole horde style list. And cuz I'm also a Godzilla and pacific rim fan so I like my big monsters!

Any ideas on how well this list would be? It's not so much for competitiveness but more so for a fun game that would at least pose a challenge and might actually win.

Any ideas on how I could change the list around or make it better?

Thanks for the help!!!

The TL Devourers are 6 shots per, so two sets would give the 12.

Actually, this is a decent list. I would drop the Haruspex though. It has no real place in any list these days. Replace it with another Carnifex to give a brood of two. They work REALLY well in pairs. A little bit of musical Carnifex when one takes too much damage in a turn, slot the full health one upfront, you have it golden. Other than that, it's a basic TAC list without Formations and should do you well on casual games. One thing, you are light on Synapse. That Tervigon is ALL you are starting off with deep in the swarm. Finding the points for a Malanthrope (which you said you can't get) or a few more Zoas, maybe getting rid of the Toxicrene and pod for pure Synapse choices, would make ME feel safer if I were using this list. Flyrants tend to wander off doing Flyrant things.

Since you haven't listed any options, I'll just rattle off the common ones. Rippers need Deep Strike, Flyrants need 2 of the Devourers and the Electroshock Grubs thorax upgrade to give Haywire Templates. That plus the Crone will make short work of big vehicles. Mawloc is a gamble and is usually taken with a Lictor or two to guide it in. Not the most needed thing ever, but it does help. Zoanthropes only need to have two plain and the third model can be a Neurothrope. Saves some points for next to no downside. That's where the Lictor points could come from.

Thanks for the reply!

alright so after reviewing your post and my list I realized the tyrants and the carnifex all had 2 pairs of the twin linked devours so they are all good!

I dropped one pod and the toxicrene, and one zoan from the squad of 4. I then added another brood of 2 zoans and a neurothrope, and a lictor. I also gave the rippers deepstrike. I then added another carnifex with 2 pairs of devours.

I have 1935 points left. I figured I would give the tyrants the electroshock grubs which will then put me at 1955, Any other suggestions?

Also is there any viability to running the carnifexs as melee with double scythes and bio-plasma? or is it always better to take the dual devours?

thanks for the help!

Find the points to put in the living artillery formation. Endocrine, pack of warriors and 3 biovores. They all gain reroll of scatter and pinning. They put down some crushing firepower. At that point think about dropping your tervigon and lower your gaunts. I don't like the tervigon as much this edition with all the firepower which can blow him away. He becomes a time bomb ready to destroy any termigaunts you birth or bring.

 dmthomas7 wrote:
Find the points to put in the living artillery formation. Endocrine, pack of warriors and 3 biovores. They all gain reroll of scatter and pinning. They put down some crushing firepower. At that point think about dropping your tervigon and lower your gaunts. I don't like the tervigon as much this edition with all the firepower which can blow him away. He becomes a time bomb ready to destroy any termigaunts you birth or bring.

I don't have the codex on me at the moment as I barrow it from a friend, but about how many points am I looking at to get this formation?

380 minimum if I remember right. It's a good Formation but doesn't help your list. You'd have to get rid of a lot of things and focus more on the 'walking across the table' part of your army. You wouldn't be able to use the Zoas to Deep Strike because you'd need space for the Venomthropes to give Shrouded, and you'd need more screening bugs to soak up some fire. Your current list puts a lot of targets in a lot of places, giving you good board control. LAN would restrict that idea a lot.

LAN is 390, bare minimum. I'd prefer to have a few extra warriors too, to ensure you keep the bonus re rolls if they start getting shot up. But that's me.

Yea it seems like it would be too big of a swap for this type of list and what I'm doing

So the current list now is: 1955

Hq:
Flyrant-2 pairs of devours and electroshock grubs
Flyrant with same load out

Troops:
Ripper swarm
Ripper swarm
Tervigon
30 gants

Elites
Zoans brood with 2 zoans and a neurothrope
Zoans brood same as above
Lictor

Fast attack:
Hive crone

Heavy support
Carnifex-2 pairs of devours
Carnifex-same as above
Mawloc
Tyrannocyte for one squad of zoans

I have 45 points to spend, any options? Only things I came up with is spores for a small distraction or another ripper swarm.

Also has anyone tried melee carnifexs with dual scything talons and bio plasma? Or are devours much better. Seeing as I don't have much ranged stuff it seems like the devours are a better choice.

Scy tals / Bio plasma on the carnifexes isn't particularly effective, they are too slow to make it into combat reliably. TL devourers are the way to go

I would drop 1 brood of zoeys (giving you 220 points) and get a venomthrope (45 points - will give you lots of deployment flexibility with the shrouded bubble) deep strike on the rippers (12 points - means you can drop them in on objectives rather than walk across the board) and another mawloc (140 points - because they are fun and fit in with your board control theme), with 23 points left over to upgrade something

Yeah, looking at your list you need some Shrouding, the most durable source is a Malanthrope. I would lose the Lictor, or one Brood of Zoeys. Also if you want to run a Tervigon, I suggest taking Hive Commander so you can Outflank one Troop (the Tervigon, with a Thorax hive.)

Yea I figured the the carnifexs with bio plasma probably wasn't a great idea lol. I've always envisioned nids as a close combat based army but I'm seeing more and more that they need to be shooty.

I can always swap the lictor for a venomthrope to get shrouding? I just wouldn't be able to get a malenthrope or their rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also figured that the zoans would also help me destroy enemy transports and armor so that mawloc and the flyers can pic apart what comes out.
Also what general strategies should I look forward to running nids? I've played them once and played against them many times but my opponent usually uses swarms though so I'm not used to monstrous creature lists lol.

swapping the Lictor for a veno is an easy one, and you save 5 points.

For me, Nids are all about the Synergy. The parts are pretty 'meh" (except for Tyrants) so you need to use them together to maximize effectiveness.
My "go to" trick is making what I call a "Bug Star". Use a Big Bug, a Veno/Malan, a source of Synapse (if needed) and a screen of Hormagaunts. The screen gives a cover save for the inside of the bug star, and the Veno enhances it to a 3+ or so.The screen has a cover save of 5+ from Shrouding, and Hormagaunts are lightning fast, so they won't hold up the Big Bugs advance.

Normal target priority makes the screen Invincable (no one shoots at it) and once you close to CC range Hormagaunts are good at CC, and can eat the overwatch. For Big Bugs I like Tyrannofex, Acid Spray, Thorax (possably Adrenal as well) for 185-200, Dakkafexen for 150 per, or lately a Toxicrene, though I normally put Toxi in a Pod.

The basic "rules" for Tyranids are, avoid upgrades, just buy more figures, and try for "Maximum Threat Overload" You want to give the foe too many targets, then exploit any mistakes.

Other "synergy: tricks are using Lictors with Deep striking units, and/or Mawlocs. I remember not getting much support when I discussed it a few years ago (well one anyway. ) but it seems to be catching on lately.

One basic suggestion I make all the time is try to build a small force say 1000 to 1500 then add a Formation to boost the point totals. Taking a 1000-1200 point force that you know how to use, then adding a Formation can give really good results.

Two of the most "proven" Formations are "Living Artillery Node", and SkyBlight. Deathleaper Assassins, and Hyper Toxic look pretty good, and "Lictor Shame" is a strong list (but Not easy to play) Tons of folks use Leviathan Fleet detachment as well.

Good luck! And welcome to the Hive Mind!

So if I were to get a malanthrope where would I find the rules and how much is the model??? Based on points the venomthrope seems like an easier take for me.

If I were to run the hormogaunts how big of a unit would I be looking at, also would gargoyles better for how fast they are.

Also based on hormogaunts wouldn't most monstrous creatures need 25% cover to get a 5+ from the gaunts?

For my list I would just end up using gants to get a cover from, or do you not think they would be fast enough?

 tankboy145 wrote:
So if I were to get a malanthrope where would I find the rules and how much is the model??? Based on points the venomthrope seems like an easier take for me.

If I were to run the hormogaunts how big of a unit would I be looking at, also would gargoyles better for how fast they are.

Also based on hormogaunts wouldn't most monstrous creatures need 25% cover to get a 5+ from the gaunts?

For my list I would just end up using gants to get a cover from, or do you not think they would be fast enough?

Malanthrope is Forge World, so expensive, Imperial Armory for the rules.

Malanthrope has T5 and several wounds, and is Synapse, and etc... All that for Less than two Venos. Local "meta" may disagree but the general concensis is a unit gives cover to units behind, MC's are not vehicles. So check local.

I greatly prefer Hormagaunts for a "screen" because they are lightning fast (Fleet, +3 run) Because you will run every turn until you close, shooting means nothing. Once you get into charge range, Hormagaunts are better in CC.

They will take the overwatch, so the Big Bug will be doing the killing anyway.

For me, Termagants work "best" camping on something like an Objective, their IB tends to keep them in place when they fail. Gargoyles Are better, but they cost more, and they are Not Objective Secured. That may not matter, it seems like many folks don't care about it. But IMHO letting one freaking Jetbike steal an Objective from 30 Gargoyles is not to be tolerated! (SkyBlight "fixes" this )

The most threatening OS army in my mind is MSU Drop pods, scattering OS Pods and combat squads all over the map is very challenging. And it normally will include a couple of Deathsquads of Melta or the like, so a "screen" is gosh darn useful. (Not so much for the cover save, as keeping the range long)Keeping the Pod outside of "claiming" range is a critical function.

So if I am to tweek my list that way and used gaunts instead of gants should I run a big group of 30, or 2 of 15, or what would you suggest?

After dropping the Tervigon what should I put In its place?

Terror from the Deep wrote:
Scy tals / Bio plasma on the carnifexes isn't particularly effective, they are too slow to make it into combat reliably. TL devourers are the way to go

I would drop 1 brood of zoeys (giving you 220 points) and get a venomthrope (45 points - will give you lots of deployment flexibility with the shrouded bubble) deep strike on the rippers (12 points - means you can drop them in on objectives rather than walk across the board) and another mawloc (140 points - because they are fun and fit in with your board control theme), with 23 points left over to upgrade something

Going to disagree here on the ScreamKiller 'fex. Since he is planning on a hormie gaunt screen any way, being as cheap as they are I find them a solid assault bug choice. The ap2 small blast is not bad to have either. I find them still to make good can openers, and with enough threats elsewhere you can frequently get them in CC turn 2, and they pretty much don't care about synapse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tankboy145 wrote:
So if I am to tweek my list that way and used gaunts instead of gants should I run a big group of 30, or 2 of 15, or what would you suggest?

After dropping the Tervigon what should I put In its place?

Thinking 2 groups of 15 and 2 pods to replace the Trevi. Keeps your big bug them, ups fire power and gets the gribbly on objective early.

I highly recommend you invest in a living artillery node. 1 exocrine, 3 biovores, 3 warriors. It's amazing. One of Nids weaknesses is the lack of long range. The node basically fixes that by not eating up FOC slots while providing that umpf you need. It pays for itself over and over again every game I play.

The problem though with the living artillery nod is it really starts to take away from the monstrous creature list, it does add an exocrine. Warriors I guess would be alright but how would I equip them? I've never really looked into warriors at all. The only other problem is getting ahold of biovore models. Only ones they have anymore are the metal ones.

What's everyone's thought on the flyrant formation with 2 gargoyle broods attached?

But as I see it the formation that seems to be needed is the artillery node. But adding that kinda seems like I would need to get rid of the horms as troops and wouldn't have that venom screen.

How can I change the list up?

 tankboy145 wrote:
The problem though with the living artillery nod is it really starts to take away from the monstrous creature list, it does add an exocrine. Warriors I guess would be alright but how would I equip them? I've never really looked into warriors at all. The only other problem is getting ahold of biovore models. Only ones they have anymore are the metal ones.

What's everyone's thought on the flyrant formation with 2 gargoyle broods attached?

But as I see it the formation that seems to be needed is the artillery node. But adding that kinda seems like I would need to get rid of the horms as troops and wouldn't have that venom screen.

How can I change the list up?

You could always get Pyrovores and proxy them as Biovores. The Pyrovore's model for one thing, looks vastly less stupid.

That formation is pretty decent for keeping the Flyrant alive, but it's not quite the fun of a skyblight swarm.

So here is the new list: it's 1960 so I still have 40 points to play with!!! What should I include!!!

Hq
2 flyrants with 2 pairs devours and electroshock grubs

Elites
2 zoan broods each with 2 zoans and a neurothrope

Venomthrope

Troops
Rippers
Rippers
15 hormagaunts
15 hormagaunts

Fast attack
Give crone

Heavy support
2 carnifexs with 2 pairs devours

Formation
Living artillery node

 tankboy145 wrote:
The problem though with the living artillery nod is it really starts to take away from the monstrous creature list, it does add an exocrine. Warriors I guess would be alright but how would I equip them? I've never really looked into warriors at all. The only other problem is getting ahold of biovore models. Only ones they have anymore are the metal ones.

What's everyone's thought on the flyrant formation with 2 gargoyle broods attached?

But as I see it the formation that seems to be needed is the artillery node. But adding that kinda seems like I would need to get rid of the horms as troops and wouldn't have that venom screen.

How can I change the list up?

I kit bashed my own exocrine and biovores. check out my blog in my sig to see. They are pretty easy to make. I also avoid metal models.

The warriors act as your rear field synapse. Mostly, they don't do anything but keep the biovores and exocrine on point. They have to take a biocannon. Which is fine. One biocannon has pinning the other doesn't. Take the one that doesn't since living artillery gives them all pinning anyway. Otherwise, bring them stock.

I ran the Tyrant with gargs formation recently. Underwhelming. Whileit performed fine (I gave the tyrant electroshock grubs, talons, and the obliterax artifact) the amount of death the tyrant could deal each turn just never stacked up to the 2 pairs of tl devourerers. I guess I could have just given it those anyway, but then it could not get to shoot when it gets assaulted because it cannot swoop. Gargs are ok, but not amazing. Again, just underwhelming. Not bad, but not great for the points you spend.

Alright so my last post is updated and includes the artillery node. I feel the last list is as pretty good as I will be able to get it with what I'm aiming to go for.

Next question is I plan on making a 1500 point list with these models and working up from there with them. Where should I start with this army, the 2 flyrants seem to be the right start point and the horms seem to be the ideal troops but what units should I get after that? And how should I escalate up from there?

Thanks again for all the help!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think for the 1500 I would start with:

2 flyrants kitted as above

2 gaunt broods with 15 each

Zoan brood as above

Hive crone

Carnifex kitted as above

And then the artillery formation

Any other advice or suggestions? This will most likely be the list that I end up running with then for nids and I greatly appreciate all the help you all have given!

 tankboy145 wrote:
Any other advice or suggestions? This will most likely be the list that I end up running with then for nids and I greatly appreciate all the help you all have given!

I guess the one thing I'd say is that you could potentially reconsider the Zoan brood with Neuro. I've tried it fairly extensively and it's proved lacklustre even in a pod (I also wouldn't run it without a pod) - it's just too many hurdles to get the powers off and you don't have that big of a WC battery to fuel them especially reliably. Zoans alone are pretty solid Synapse and WC batteries, however. With the list you're posting, I'd swap the Zoans+ Neuro for perhaps a pod for the Dakkafex (depositing it upfield is very useful indeed, and the pod is a solid unit anyway) and definitely take one if not two Venomthropes. We live and die by our cover saves - you definitely want at least one for the fliers to launch off, and a second could be handy as one is fairly easily downed and you will have some backfield with LAN.

The only problem I see with that is the zoans give me some longer range anti heavy armor and they give additional synapse. Taking away a zoan brood means I will only have the warrior unit and one zoan unit for back field synapse.

My roommate has a land raider. If it wasn't for a pair of Zoanthropes and the electroshock grubs I would have nothing to hurt it. Zoan are great mid/front line synapse with the ability to pack a heavy punch.

My most common opponent will end up being a necron player, and av13 vehicles all over can be very annoying.

One Zoan provides just as much synapse as a brood, and is way easier to hide. I wouldn't really call 18" on a 6" moving unit particularly long range, but anyway the main point is that while they have the potential to pull off awesome things like 1-shotting LRs, most of the time you will be getting your powers denied or failing to cast, or your opponent will steer clear with their heavy armour. They have in my experience a very high variance, doing nothing for lots of turns then doing something pretty good in one maybe, if you're lucky. theyre definitely not the worst unit, but i would recommend trying something else.

Really, you don't need to focus that much on anti-heavy armour. When i was new I was also very concerned about it, but for the most part you can ignore it or chip away at it and be completely fine! The Crone, Flyrants, lone Zoan, Fex on the charge if it gets close, and the Exocrine against AV13 can hurt stuff, which is more than enough imo. But anyway, it's your list and I'm not going to make the choice for you!

are you talking about dropping the zoan squads to 1 model?

 tankboy145 wrote:
are you talking about dropping the zoan squads to 1 model?

That's a possibility that I assume you've taken in my above post, sorry for being unclear.