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 Dez wrote:
US is sold out too. Tbh I'm surprised the Warboss book is still available.

Whaaaat? Damn, I wanted to get my hands on that..


All this talk of Grukk da Face-Rippa only makes me thing of Khorne-dedicated Orks, what with the gore-spattered ships and crusty old blood all over Grukk.

Also a little bit of this situation in DoW: Winter Assault, where Gorgutz gets a little over his head.. I can easily see a future Ghazzy vs. Grukk situation, where Grukk gets taught 'is lesson.

DaKrumpa wrote:

Da Butcha wrote:

 Toburk wrote:

GW's business plan (if you can call it that) for a while now has been to have high margins on low volume, and the prices have just hit the point were I've been priced out, regardless of disposable income.

That was me with the Warboss Edition. I AM the target audience for that, but I could buy the rulebook, the supplement, and the cards (which may or may not come with it, depending on whether you believe White Dwarf or the website) from my FLGS, supporting them, and pay about $50 less (even if I didn't get a discount and a rebate from them). I can't justify $50 for art prints of covers I already own, and objective coins, no matter how much I want them (and I do want those orky counters).

It's not just the high price, it's the value for cost, and, for me, GW's decision to hose the gaming stores on this limited stuff.

Gaming stores can get web exclusives, if yours cannot then they are not trying hard enough.

From what I heard, they hav to pay a much higher price so they make very little (or nothing when you factor in building costs. They make what little money they can on models with their margin.

Stupid question but I thought orks got stikk bombs free but cost 6 still with shootas being 7. The front page says boyz dropped a point but shootas cost one.

Front page is wrong. Slugga is 6 points, Shoota Boy 7. Both have free stick bombz

i'd rather slugga be 5pts without the stikkbombs imo.

What good are assault grenades on an I2 unit lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd rather slugga be 5pts without the stikkbombs imo.

What good are assault grenades on an I2 unit lol

This makes me wonder if people would be willing to house rule boyz NOT including stikkbombs for the opportunity to have them cost a point less.

EDIT: That's neither here nor there yet as the codex isn't officially out, but I've been putting together a few sample lists using the info we do know. So far I have a starter 1250~ list that doesn't seem so bad for what it contains:

Troops
slugga x30 180
slugga x30 180
shoota x20 w/2 big shootas 150
shoota x20 w/2 big shootas 150
grots x10 40

695

HQ
Big mek w/KFF, BP x2 180
painboy w/BP x2 110
290

Heavy
lootas x13 182

Fortification
skyshield 75
257

Total: 1247

This is around what I would have normally taken in my previous 1250 list - painboss to painboy cost is the same, I would have had an extra mob of 20 boyz rather than grots though, due to Shoota boy increased cost. The idea is the boyz are all in a blob with the KFFs and painboys acting as buffs and BP rerolls with lootas camped on the skyshield. Thoughts?

DaKrumpa wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

DaKrumpa wrote:
Gaming stores can get web exclusives, if yours cannot then they army trying hard enough.

At a much smaller margin.

It basically boils down to whether they give enough of a gak about you to do you a favor. A store that says they can't get you a web exclusive is really saying they're not going to move a finger for you unless it gives them an immediate return.

It's not even that hard for them to do it though! I think there is a 50 dollar minimum order, which is a joke when you look at the prices anyways. I do realize that their margins for "direct sales" are lower but they are not non-existent.

Well, unless the FLGS owner is lying to me, he tells me that he could place an order for one, and he wasn't guaranteed of getting it. He was glad to take my money for it, but he said that if I really wanted to get one (and be sure of getting it), I should preorder it myself, because GW had been unreliable in sending web only limited editions.

It's kind of moot anyway, as the basic codex/supplement/cards are so much cheaper that I feel dumb paying so much extra for a box and coins. It doesn't help that, like almost every limited edition GW has released recently, I like the cover art better on the regular edition.

 Zog Off wrote:
Any of you math geniuses want to compare the morale check for a 5-strong squad of Deffkoptas in the last edition to a 5-strong squad of Deffkoptas in the new edition?

I always wanted to max out a squad instead of taking singles, but their morale was too bad. I would like to see if the new Mob Rule helps them.

That's pretty easy. They don't have a character, and you won't have over ten models, so you don't get to use the new Mob Rule.

 Multimoog wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd rather slugga be 5pts without the stikkbombs imo.

What good are assault grenades on an I2 unit lol

This makes me wonder if people would be willing to house rule boyz NOT including stikkbombs for the opportunity to have them cost a point less.

They shouldn't. It would be a silly precedent.

I had it come up today when I assaulted obliterators in a woods. My boyz got to go first. Didn't do any real damage, but at least they got to roll first! The nob helped finish the job!

 PhillyT wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd rather slugga be 5pts without the stikkbombs imo.

What good are assault grenades on an I2 unit lol

This makes me wonder if people would be willing to house rule boyz NOT including stikkbombs for the opportunity to have them cost a point less.

They shouldn't. It would be a silly precedent.

I have a craaAAAaaazy theory that the big rules "leak" was intentional as a stealthy way for GW to get early feedback by watching the big forums and potentially tailoring a FAQ with tweaks or ideas for formations/slates. Swapping bombz for points would be the best thing ever around. I'm gonna ask about it at my GW store.

Bomms for 1 point isn't a "fair" exchange, as the Ork player gains everything and loses nothing.

I'd happily lose the grenades to cost 5.5 points per model. Losing 1 point of gear for a 1/2 point refund works for me

You certainly could, but it isn't fair to the other books. Orks aren't really over costed. Stikkbombz have few real benefits, but they do have some.

 Multimoog wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd rather slugga be 5pts without the stikkbombs imo.

What good are assault grenades on an I2 unit lol

This makes me wonder if people would be willing to house rule boyz NOT including stikkbombs for the opportunity to have them cost a point less.

They shouldn't. It would be a silly precedent.

I have a craaAAAaaazy theory that the big rules "leak" was intentional as a stealthy way for GW to get early feedback by watching the big forums and potentially tailoring a FAQ with tweaks or ideas for formations/slates. Swapping bombz for points would be the best thing ever around. I'm gonna ask about it at my GW store.

If they start doing that then it won't be long until you're up against 8pt Fire Warriors. That won't be fun for Orks.

 PhillyT wrote:
You certainly could, but it isn't fair to the other books. Orks aren't really over costed. Stikkbombz have few real benefits, but they do have some.

Shoota boyz used to be 20% more expensive than a gant, they are now 75% more expensive!

Guard blobs now get very cheap (25 points) access to fearless, hatred and either shred or re-roll fail armour and invulnerable saves.

This codex is great for me it sounds. 5 converted big meks already all with different configurations. Converted Grotsnik and 2 other painboyz, 6 kanz , 3 dredds and a morkanuaght. And a bunch of shoota boyz.

It's like they gave me everything I wanted, all I lost was dredds for troops. Im One Happy mekboy!

=)

I think there are obscure case of assaulting Initiative 1 guys in terrain.

Essentially they are now a 0 point upgrade. that was the only "buff" given to the sluggas. I wouldn't call it -1 / +1 exchange as those stikkbombs are DEFINITELY not worth a point.

 Greyhound wrote:
I think there are obscure case of assaulting Initiative 1 guys in terrain.

Essentially they are now a 0 point upgrade. that was the only "buff" given to the sluggas. I wouldn't call it -1 / +1 exchange as those stikkbombs are DEFINITELY not worth a point.

My point exactly. It seems like it was a barely justifiable way to increase points on one of the very few ways the Codex would give people genuine trouble in 7th, assuring Orks keep their place as "bad guys that are always defeated". I think this is an even worse nerf than New Mob Rule.

Hey melcavuk,

regarding stikk bombs, you mentioned it says to "check the BRB" but check the BRB for what? assault grenades, or assault + krak?

Assault grenades only sorry.

I think the looted wagon is the default transport for my boyz now.
Can't explode vehicles without AP2/1 unless open topped,
Passengers of open-topped vehicles now suffer hits from template weapons
ard case anyone?
Looted wagons had a massive price drop

Did the price of the nob upgrade for units of ork boyz go down at all?

Also:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Bomms for 1 point isn't a "fair" exchange, as the Ork player gains everything and loses nothing.

Well, except that Ork players are going to be "losing" a lot due to points crowding in horde lists. GW has basically rule-changed their way out of a ton of potential sales of new models if people can't reasonably afford to pay the points costs in a Battle Forged list. I was looking to getting a Morkanaut and filling it with new Burnas but that's not really an option if I want to use many of the models I already own.

Melcavuk,
What is point per Stormboyz? Same gear as before or options? Thx!

 Toburk wrote:
Shoota boyz used to be 20% more expensive than a gant, they are now 75% more expensive!

That's probably why they dropped gants by a point and raised shoota boyz by a point; one shoota boy will beat two gants almost any day. One shoota boy gets two shots at 18", the gants get two shots at twelve. Both s4, the gants +1 BS compensates the ork's +1 T. In close combat, it's pretty one-sided in favour of the ork.

Even at 7 pts a pop shoota boyz are still among the most cost-effective troops in the game, considering how versatile they are. Their shooting is fantastic through sheer volume, they're the kings of snap firing, and they beat almost anybody else's base troops in combat (especially with furious charge and 'ere we go to back them up).

Does 'ard case do anything aside from removing open topped?

 Melcavuk wrote:
Assault grenades only sorry.

awesome man, thanks you rock!

though free krak would have been a bit OTT.



regarding shootas going up a point,

everyone took shootas over choppas because, as it has been mentioned, shootas will outperform by far, so why were these two things the same pts before?


not saying my own shoota boys dont like it, but it does make sense given how much more effective they make boyz.

choppa boys seem like the better take to me now too now that the charge threat range on orks is just... just so much awesome sauce.... I was really hoping for a pts decrease but my boyz were doing really well before the rest of the codex got buffed, so now that they are slightly better at being choppa boys and +1 pts for dakka boys, its not the end of the world

 Delevarius wrote:
Does anyone know how many points does the Relic Bike cost ?

would like to kn0w that too...

how pricy are the relics in general? fair points?

 Greyhound wrote:
I think there are obscure case of assaulting Initiative 1 guys in terrain.

Essentially they are now a 0 point upgrade. that was the only "buff" given to the sluggas. I wouldn't call it -1 / +1 exchange as those stikkbombs are DEFINITELY not worth a point.

Assaulting I1 is rare, but Assaulting I2 in cover with Stikkbombz means striking simultaneously, a bonus against Tau, Necrons, Plaguebearers, and other Orks rather then having them hit first and kill off some boyz, reducing your attacks.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Greyhound wrote:
I think there are obscure case of assaulting Initiative 1 guys in terrain.

Essentially they are now a 0 point upgrade. that was the only "buff" given to the sluggas. I wouldn't call it -1 / +1 exchange as those stikkbombs are DEFINITELY not worth a point.

Assaulting I1 is rare, but Assaulting I2 in cover with Stikkbombz means striking simultaneously, a bonus against Tau, Necrons, Plaguebearers, and other Orks rather then having them hit first and kill off some boyz, reducing your attacks.

It still seems like something that should have been optional, and not hiked point costs up, though.

TableTopJosh wrote:
Did the price of the nob upgrade for units of ork boyz go down at all?

This would be good to know as well. I'm trying to decide if it would be better to put a Smasha gun in my Big Gunz battery or add some Nobz to my Boyz mobz.

Stickbombz weren't good enough to be taken at 1 pt, and GW didn't feel slugga boyz were bad enough to be justified at 5 pts, so they came up with a compromise which didn't use half points. 6 pt sluggaz is a fair price.

Shootas feel a bit too expensive at 7 pts, but one or the other was always going to be better.

I wonder how much a mec with a killsaw and combi skorcha costs. If you take 3 hqs, you could take 3 of those meks to buff uo your units of boys.