Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So per the text of the rule

Kastelan Robots have a 5+ invulnerable save against shooting attacks. Furthemore, each time a Kastelan Robot is targeted by a shooting attack and passes a saving throw of any kind on the roll of a 6, the shot is deflected. If a shot is deflected, the unit that fired it suffers an immediate hit resolved with the Strength, AP value and special rules of the hit that was originally allocated to the Kastelan Robot, as if it had just been shot by that Kastelan Robot. A repulsor grid cannot deflect Blast or Template weapons or psychic shooting attacks

So my question is this, since I've seen inconsistencies on things that "Automatically" Hit vs flyers and Book Invisible units as the attack doesnt 'roll to hit" nor is it a 'snap shot". Which I personally disagree with, but for clarity from our resident rule lawyers my question is this:

If a flyer/FMC/Invisible unit makes a shooting attack against a Kastelan Robot, who then makes a Save of any flavor of a 6, does the shot reflect and automatically hit those units?

Example: Stormraven fires a Las Cannon that hits a Unit of Kastelans, the Kastelan makes a save of 6 vs the wound, would the Stormraven then actually suffer a hit using the las Cannon profile?

FMCs and invisible units yes. Flyers no. The reason is Flyers (well Zooming Flyers anyway) can not be hit by any attack that does not roll To Hit. Since there is no To Hit roll, Flyers are unaffected.

Is that the specific "Hard to hit" wording for Zooming Flyers that states only attacks that roll to hit can hit those units?

Yes. Flyer Hard To Hit specifically says that blasts, templates and attacks that do not roll To Hit can not hit them.

 Happyjew wrote:
Yes. Flyer Hard To Hit specifically says that blasts, templates and attacks that do not roll To Hit can not hit them.

Technically the Repulsor Grid isn't an attack, since no attacks were declared by the Kastelan. It's merely a hit. And IIRC, 'dex trumps BRB, so. Auto-hit in my books.

it says the unit suffers a hit, not that the unit is automatically hit.

the shot would reflect back and the unit that fired it suffers an immediate hit resolved with the Strength, AP value and special rules of the hit that was originally allocated to the Kastelan Robot, as if it had just been shot by that Kastelan.

It is not a declared attack but it is a hit that is suffered, as if it were shot by the kastelan. We are not told it automatically hits, so it is not counted as rolling and automatically passing. So it is not rolling to hit.

Hard to hit from flyers says they cannot be hit by such an attacks. One could argue its not an attack, but as the rule for repulsor field field state "as if it had just been shot by that kastelan" it would be hard to say its not an attack.

If I had to make this rules call I would say it would not hit a flyer. FMC and invis have different rules.

A parallel to the above is the "clipped 'em" result for the "screamin' decent" rule of the Ork boombomb on the blitzbomma; the bomma suffers a hit(along with the bomb target). This hit is automatic, and not from an attack against the bomma.

So the attack against the kastallen that then reflects to the flyer foes not qualify for the harf to hit rule.

What about a meltagun shot reflected back shot from inside a chimera?

Imho it would hit the chimera itself.

Strange situation, but hits the unit firing(simply follow the rules for the repulsor). For wound allocation you use random allocation(there is no closest model, the whole unit inside is measured as being at the closest point if the chimera).

I am relatively sure that if we ever get an FAQ on this it will either simply not hit them, follow the procedures above, or hit the transport/building. First and last are rules changes, but wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

Wow, i had not thought of the complexity created by the Kastelan rule, though the mechanicum codex has the more exotic rules at the moment...

I agree with all of the above:

-Invisible Units just suffer a Hit
-Flyers suffer a Hit, as per KK's Ork example
-Embarked passengers suffer a random allocation Hit.

I would imagine an embarked unit would suffer a hit on the transport. I don't remember the specific wording, but if a unit inside the transport fires, doesn't it act as if the vehicle fired the weapon?

Absolutely not.

The only transport that has a weapon fired by the passengers as part of the transports shooting is the chimera lasgun arrays.

Transported units using fire points is always just the unit firing.

Using the chimera again; a vet squad in the chimera is bs4, the chimera is bs3. The arrays require a passenger per lasgun fired and fires at bs3 while not counting against the vehicles weapons at full bs. If the meltas on the 2 vets counted as the vehicle firing, they would drop to bs3 and count against the number of weapons the chimera can fire at full(so if you moved 1 melta would be bs1, as will all other weapons on the chimera except for the arrays because they are special little flowers). Also the meltas would have to fire at the same target.

Tl:dr: Passengers fire separately from the vehicle, and are specifically the passengers not the vehicle firing

I stand corrected!

 Orock wrote:
What about a meltagun shot reflected back shot from inside a chimera?

Theres a thread about that topic already, which you yourself authored, please dont derail this one

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/649587.page