Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A while ago, we had these rumours regarding Veteran Skills for units in the CSM codex that get the VotLW upgrade.
Seeing how the Crimson Slaughter codex has the Draznicht's Ravagers upgrade (which basically gives the squad preferred enemy for as long as the champion is alive for +10 points), how sensible would it be to merge the rumour with this example and apply it codex-wide?

Basically; you'd get the VotLW upgrade for the entire squad, whether it is CSMs, Havocs, Bikers or even Terminators.
Then you'd be able to pick veteran skills from those available to the squad for x amount of points.
Whatever you get, the rule ceases to apply once the champion is dead.

I believe this would balance the dreadful Champion of Chaos rule.
If my squad champion is going to throw himself at the unkillable enemy chapter master/warboss/hive tyrant/whatever, he might as well have done at least some good up to that point.

This would make champions a lot more expansive per squad, but with squad-wide rules like preferred enemy or counter-attack it might actually be worth it.
This can even be further expanded to allow champions to modify their statlines and then get equipped accordingly, which would make the CSM become a lot more focussed on characters and I think that would be fluffy as hell.

Also this can actually replace the need for legion rules, if done right.

What do you think?

I can see this applying in accordance with Marks, so the champ would confer some god- specific USR while he was alive. Something like:

Khorne: +1A to every model in the squad

Nurgle: improves FnP by 1, grants 6+ FnP if they don't already have it

Slaanesh: Grants Fleet to entire unit

Tzeench: soul blaze resolved with rending; grants soul blaze if they don't already have it


Or a list of veteran skills that aren't tied to anything that specialize units more

Preferred Enemy- 10 points

Tank Hunters- 10 points

Monster Hunters- 10 points (I think that's a rule-- could be from somewhere else)

Pinning- 5 points

Hit and Run- 25 points

SkyFire- 20 points

Stealth- 15 points

StrikeDown- 20 points

I've been out of the loop for quite a while, not keeping up with the rules since around 4th edition. What is the champion of chaos rule?

KranfordTButcher wrote:
I've been out of the loop for quite a while, not keeping up with the rules since around 4th edition. What is the champion of chaos rule?

It's a rule given to pretty much every character (including squad champions) in the CSM codex, that forces them to challenge or accept challenges wherever possible. The upside is that whenever a character manages to kill an enemy character, they get to roll on a D66 table to gain a random special ability (or sometimes turn into a Daemon Prince!).

Ahhh, so it's honor before reason. Or, as much honor as you could expect a chaos marine to have. That would make sense for champions of Khorne and Slaanesh, definitely. Dunno if it makes sense for Nurgle, or Tzeench for that matter.

Not so much honor, neccassarily, but glory. Glory before reason. Hell, the more dangerous the foe, the greater the glory in the eyes of the Dark Gods!

The problem with this is that we are again in the same situation has Icons in 4th Ed codex, once the guy with the icon died, the squad forgot who they where Worshipping, wich is...well stupid...

VotLW should be for everyone, and the Champ would have a better version like Tier 1 for all, Tier 2 for Champs and Tier 3 for HQ's.

With Chosens/Termies been all Tier 2 VotLW.

Tier 1: Hatred (Imperial), Stubborn.
Tier 2:Hatred (Imperials), Parade( 5++ save in CC while in a Duel), Stubborn.
Tier 3;Hatred (Imperials), prefered ennemy, Stubborn, Parade(4++ save in CC while in a duel)