Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So here is the star:
Librarius conclave
Tigurius (Warlord)
Librarian lvl2
Librarian lvl2

Loth

3 rapier Quad Bolters

Loth auto chooses Endurance, Life Leech and Enfeeble.
1 Libby rolls on Divination, as does Tiggy afterwards (with rerolls), essential powers are Forewarning, Perfect Timing and Foreboding with a good chance of also getting Misfortune.
Last libby rolls on Telepathy hoping for any of Dominate, Terrify, Invisibility or Shrouding.
The Smite, Prescience and Psychic Shriek become auto includes due to being primaris.
Tiggys WL trait grants a unit within 12" rending. All non-Biomancy powers are successful on a 2+ with reroll.

During the game, Endurance and Forewarning are cast on the unit, Loths armour is activated and he tanks at the front. Due to the Artillery rule, this means from the front Loth is tanking with T7 2++/4+++ Eternal Warrior. Any shots that bypass Loth from the flanks still gives the unit T7, 3+/4++/4+++ EW. Life Leech helps replace lost wounds. Due to Endurance the unit has relentless so can move and shoot. 6 marines, 3 2W artillery pieces and 4 2W librarians.
Tiggy uses his WL trait on the unit and casts perfect timing. The unit now has 18 tl heavy bolter, 3/6 bolter and 4 bolt pistol shots all with rending and ignores cover, as well as Smite, Leech Life and Psychic Shriek. Foreboding means charging this unit is a difficult undertaking. If a unit does charge it and make it past the overwatch, there are 4 force weapon wielding characters that are pretty hard to kill due to all the buffs.
The unit debuffs enemy units with Enfeeble, Misfortune and maybe Dominate and Terrify. Whilst buffing friendly units with Prescience and maybe Invisibility and Shrouding (and rending if not giving it to this unit).

If taking the Librarius Conclave anyway, all you are investing in here is Loth and a 120pt unit. So actually cheaper than the vast majority of units people have suggested they would put a conclave in.

What do you think?

It's 18 heavy bolter shots for more than 500pts. What are you on?

KillswitchUK wrote:
It's 18 heavy bolter shots for more than 500pts. What are you on?

Well, the rending does help a bit with that, but I would take the points to upgrade the guns personally. The idea isn't a bad one, however.

You lose Chapter Tactics benefits because of mixed units and you don't have the ability to split fire. Not very good.

There are no CT that this star is benefitting from. It is already twin linked.
You do have split fire in the sense that you have psychic shriek, smite and leech life.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KillswitchUK wrote:
It's 18 heavy bolter shots for more than 500pts. What are you on?

Do the maths. 18 tl rending heavy bolter shots, 6 rending bolter shots, 4 rending bolt pistol shots, all with ignores cover, 3d6 - ld wounds ignoring armour saves and cover, 4 st4 ap2 and 2 st6 ap2 shots, enfeeble, misfortune, prescience, and other potential buffs/debuffs (such as invis and dominate) almost certainly going off. On an extremely durable platform with the ability to move and shoot. Think it through before you make comments like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also multiple force weapon attacks if/when they get stuck into combat, on models that just won't die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also - this is for people thinking about taking the conclave. They are already paying the points for the libbys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jifel wrote:

KillswitchUK wrote:
It's 18 heavy bolter shots for more than 500pts. What are you on?

Well, the rending does help a bit with that, but I would take the points to upgrade the guns personally. The idea isn't a bad one, however.

I don't know - I think 18 tl rending hb shots out does the 3 tl laser destroyer shots in most situations.

Centstar with Libby conclave and draigo is way better in every way.
More shots, better shots, actual split fire, better tank, more wounds, non forgeworld so more tourny Allow, list goes on

So wait, what's the consensus on Storm of Fire - do the ICs in the unit confer it along?

I was thinking putting a Librarius Conclave in my Grey Knights army, nothing really competitive just thinking an unkillable multi-assult melee deathstar, but rending stormbolters would be nice to have.

DayOne916247 wrote:
Centstar with Libby conclave and draigo is way better in every way.
More shots, better shots, actual split fire, better tank, more wounds, non forgeworld so more tourny Allow, list goes on

It is at least 300pts cheaper than a decent Draigo star with conclave (Loth 175 + 3 rapiers 120 < Draigo 245 + 4 Grav Cents 330 + omniscope 10). It is also far more durable T7 2++/4++ from front compared to T5 2+/3++, T7 3+/4++/4+++ from side compared to T5 2+/4++. Has more wounds (you'd need all 5 cents to be same amount of wounds and then we are talking almost 400pts more). Also can pick/more reliable for more choices of powers. Above 12" I would argue that the cent stars fire power isn't that much greater, whilst within 12" the cent star has considerably greater firepower. So the Cent star is a bit better overall... as it should be costing considerably more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lanlaorn wrote:
So wait, what's the consensus on Storm of Fire - do the ICs in the unit confer it along?

I was thinking putting a Librarius Conclave in my Grey Knights army, nothing really competitive just thinking an unkillable multi-assult melee deathstar, but rending stormbolters would be nice to have.

In this case it doesn't matter as the rapiers would be UM so it wouldn't come up. The only model that would lose out on the rending if it is chapter specific is Loth.

Loth only has 2 wounds, right?

Yes. As soon as he takes one though, LoS the rest away. The chance that when he has 1W left at T7, that he'll be wounded, fail his 2+ LoS, then his 2++ and then his 4+fnp is very slim indeed. Next turn, get him the wound back with leech life.

I think after my usual tactic of drop podding a
Culexus assassin, you would be a sad panda.

Yep that would be the rock to the scissors. But that applies to cent star too and anything going with a librarius conclave (and daemon summoning lists/some eldar builds/any psychic deathstar etc). Fortunately, despite it being cited as a counter to said builds and others, a culexus assassin is extremely rare.

I have run one in every tourney and most for fun lists since necrons started upping the arms race. Its practically necessary now with all the psychic cheeze like this, and is only going to become more common.

That's fair enough, if we start encountering more culexus' then things like this would peter out. Then people would stop taking a culexus, so things like this would come back in. Long term cycle.

The culexus is definitely a counter that stops it dead. But it stops so many other things dead in their tracks as well, and we don't consider them poor choices because of that one potential counter. Besides, I'd rather a cheaper psychic star be countered than a far more expensive psychic star be countered by it. That's an argument for it in comparison to other psychic stars, not against it. Plus I suppose the rending is still there so there would be that small ray of hope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Counter to the culexus - Land Raider Excelsior... give the star interceptor ;-).

Go re-read how Loth's armour works with 7th's psychic phase. He never has any warp charge to expend in the movement phase, so can not get his 2++.

Not that it makes the rest of your idea less valid, but I think you'll find yourself in trouble against GK or daemons, since you've "only" got ~8-9 + d6 warp charge. Yes, you're casting on 2's, but unless you throw a reasonable amount of dice, you will get at least 1 critical power denied when your opponent throws 20 odd dice at it (I'd chose endurance probably).

Grav star is much better for all the reasons already listed. I don't know how you think ALL your shots being AP2 vs 1/6 of your shots being AP2 and 5/6's being AP4 isn't a massive, massive upgrade and easily worth the points.

What is the value of throwing the Cullexus into the mix? Most people don't run it.

Ah, I think I figured out what was bothering me about this. You can get more high powered rending shots from a Ravenwing Support squad with assault cannons. Granted T7 2+ is probably better than AV10 4+ or rerollable 2+.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or I guess you could go the other way and build TFC star. The techmarines have AP1 melee attacks.

Im telling you this now because your from the UK. Its a bad idea. Please stop before you waste your money in this. It won't do anything at a tournament. If it works for you at home, keep it there.

 Drasius wrote:
Go re-read how Loth's armour works with 7th's psychic phase. He never has any warp charge to expend in the movement phase, so can not get his 2++.

Not that it makes the rest of your idea less valid, but I think you'll find yourself in trouble against GK or daemons, since you've "only" got ~8-9 + d6 warp charge. Yes, you're casting on 2's, but unless you throw a reasonable amount of dice, you will get at least 1 critical power denied when your opponent throws 20 odd dice at it (I'd chose endurance probably).

Grav star is much better for all the reasons already listed. I don't know how you think ALL your shots being AP2 vs 1/6 of your shots being AP2 and 5/6's being AP4 isn't a massive, massive upgrade and easily worth the points.

Yeh I know currently that rule is broken RAW but it has been discussed quite a lot and the common consensus is that you use it in the psychic phase instead like all the old psychic rules that were used in other phases. It'd be 10+d6 warp charges, but yes that does mean GKs and some Daemon builds would shut down a needed power such as Endurance. Definitely something that needs considering.
Yeh grav is much better firepower wise but not durability wise, and it costs 300pts-400pts more. I could almost afford the new SM command tanks at that price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mavnas wrote:
Ah, I think I figured out what was bothering me about this. You can get more high powered rending shots from a Ravenwing Support squad with assault cannons. Granted T7 2+ is probably better than AV10 4+ or rerollable 2+.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or I guess you could go the other way and build TFC star. The techmarines have AP1 melee attacks.

TFC is a very good idea for the star! Would cost 180pts more, but would have even better firepower and way better combat ability! TFC techmarines have artificier armour right?

Poly Ranger wrote:
Foreboding means charging this unit is a difficult undertaking.

Not really - the Artillery rules means the guns can't fire overwatch.

I'm fairly certain Techmarines do get a 2+, though I don't think it's explicitly 'artificer' (splitting hairs really). TFC's don't benefit so much from Perfect Timing (they already have an Ignores Cover shell, though it would allow you to use the higher strength and still ignore cover I suppose), but have longer range and will brutalise infantry.

 Quanar wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Foreboding means charging this unit is a difficult undertaking.

Not really - the Artillery rules means the guns can't fire overwatch.

I'm fairly certain Techmarines do get a 2+, though I don't think it's explicitly 'artificer' (splitting hairs really). TFC's don't benefit so much from Perfect Timing (they already have an Ignores Cover shell, though it would allow you to use the higher strength and still ignore cover I suppose), but have longer range and will brutalise infantry.

Not benefitting from it means there's one less power you have to cast which makes them more reliable/less psyhic charge intensive and yes the techmarines are 2+.

Any of these ranged psychic Deathstars from the Imperium can benefit from an allied Coteaz to combat Cullexus no? Am I missing something? Cullexus' null bubble is 12" right...and Coteaz allows interceptor within 12"...right? Given that interceptor occurs in the movement phase, if the unit kills the Cullexus before the psychic phase, do their powers still get shut down for that turn?

Someone with the rules for Cullexus help me out please!

I dont think independant characters can join Artillery for this reason. Going to have to check that when I get hom.

Can the assassin be placed out of Coteaz's line of sight or is the drop pod too small to hide a single model from a single model?