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just a general thought, what do you think chaos codex should get, if it gets updates, my main point should be the marines, they should be better

AP4 on the Helldrake's baleflamer so it's less overpowered against about half the armies in the game would be my main idea.

^ Nerf the only good unit.

I just think that the point costs need to be put in line with the current game. And less randomization of the various rewards.
And of course, super formation, etc etc.

This is one of those threads that seems to reappear every month or so. So I'll summarize what I've seen to be popular in those threads.

- Legion Rules
- Thousand sons being playable
- Stubborn on marines
- Unique weapon profiles (since we won't get grav)
- Major point adjustments across the board, but some need it more than others (looking at you, defiler)
- Champion of Chaos either needs to be improved or removed.
- More assualt delivery options. Open topped rhinos and Land Raider variants seem to be the popular choices here.
- Alot dislike the randomness of the Chaos Boon table.
- Mutilators and Warp Talons either need a major overhaul or be replaced with something that fits their role better.
- Named HQs that either don't suck or have their points adjusted.
- Access to a 2+ armor save for lords and sorcerers that isn't terminator armor.
- Daemon Prince's need Eternal Warrior

If I missed any something, feel free to add to my list, but that's what i can remember.

Chaos Cult Marines
>If unit is Purchased with the Sacred Number of Models, One Model Becomes An Inspiring Champion For Free.
>All Models Have Veterans Of A Thousand Wars

Khorne Berserker Terminators
Points: 35 Each
Sacred Number: 8
>Counter Attack
>Fearless
>Rage
>Weapon Skill 5
>Any Model May Replace Combi-Bolter with a Combi-Weapon (+5)
>2 Models May Replace their Combi-Bolter with Auto-Cannon or Heavy Flamer
>One Model may take The Icon of Wrath

Khorne Berserker Terminator Inspiring Champion
>Counter Attack
>Fearless
>Rage
>Strength 5
>Weapon Skill 5
>May Take Items from Terminator Melee Weapons List.

Plague Marine Terminators
Points: 35 Each
Sacred Number: 7
>Fearless
>Melee Plague Weapons [Poison 2+]
>Toughness 5
>Any Model May Replace Combi-Bolter with a Combi-Weapon (+5)
>2 Models May take Replace Combi-Bolter with Chem Cannon [Template, S1, AP3, Assault-1, Poison 2+] or Auto-Cannon
>One Model may take The Icon of Despair

Plague Marine Terminator Inspiring Champion
>Fearless
>Melee Plague Weapons [Poison 2+]
>Toughness 5
>Weapon Skill 5
>May Take Items from Terminator Melee Weapons List and/or Terminator Ranged Weapon List.

Noise Marine Terminators
Points: 35 Each
Sacred Number: 6
>Attack 3
>Fearless
>Initiative 5
>Melee Concussive Weapons
>Any Model May Replace Combi-Bolter With Sonic Blaster (Free)
>2 Models May Replace Their Combi-Bolter With A Blastmaster (+25) or Doom Siren (+10)
>One Model may take The Icon of Excess


Noise Marine Terminator Inspiring Champion
>Attack 4
>Fearless
>Initiative 5
>Melee Concussive Weapons
>May Replace Combi-Bolter with Sonic Blaster (+10)
>May Take Items from Terminator Melee Weapons List.

Thousand Sons Terminators
Points: 35 Each
Sacred Number: 9
>Brotherhood of Psykers [Level-1]
>Combi-Bolter Are AP3
>Fearless
>Force Weapons of Choice
>Invulnerable Save 3++
>Slow and Purposeful
>Sorcerer Leader: If Lead Buy A Sorcerer With The Mark Of Tzeentch, The Unit Can Fire Overwatch
>One Model may take The Icon of Flame

Thousand Sons Terminator Sorcerer
>Brotherhood of Psykers [Level-1, making the Unit Level-2]
>Combi-Bolter Is AP3
>Fearless
>Force Weapon of Choice
>Invulnerable Save 3++
>May Take Items from Terminator Melee Weapons List and/or Terminator Ranged Weapon List.

Champions are free anyway.


We need a good price drop, everything in the codex is too expensive.

And character, the book is about as bland as a piece of bread covered in dust.

I'd like a revamp of the point system by adjusting upwards, making things cheaper just removes granularity. The main thing I want is cult versions of more things (Sonic weps for everything with MoS, poisoned weapons for everything with MoN, Maybe Mastery for MoT and so on).
I would also like the battle cannon for the Defiler to be optional, and have less random tables that makes the efficiency of a unit hard to decide.

They pretty much need buffs and point reductions all around. Since the Decurion-type detachments are the new normal, they will need one of those for the Legions.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
They pretty much need buffs and point reductions all around. Since the Decurion-type detachments are the new normal, they will need one of those for the Legions.

That would be the simplest way to do it.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
They pretty much need buffs and point reductions all around. Since the Decurion-type detachments are the new normal, they will need one of those for the Legions.

In many of these threads people ask for two things, either more power creep by increasing power or reducing points. Why is this? Wouldn't a better long term solution for the game be to try and stop the power creep instead? It seemed like GW tried to do this early 7th with GK, DE, BA, AM and Orks, so we have several codices that are on the lower end of power, regardless of being new. Sure it is not fun to have a codex that falls short compared to others, but I would rather have a weak codex and avoid power creep, than to have 3 point marines and free guardsmen in 6 years time.

dethric wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
They pretty much need buffs and point reductions all around. Since the Decurion-type detachments are the new normal, they will need one of those for the Legions.

In many of these threads people ask for two things, either more power creep by increasing power or reducing points. Why is this?

Because CSM are widely regarded as the worst army in the game. This is not power creep, they should be brought up to a level at least similar to other armies. Ideally, they would have brought the high tier armies down to an appropriate level (in line with most of the early 7e armies), but that didn't happen and here we are.

And it is no fun playing a crappy codex. And the point of the game is to have fun.

Not much choice but to keep up withe power creep for this edition. If they had any intention to balance things properly they would design all the codices for one rule edition in parallel.

As for the decurion styles for the legions, I made a decurion for each legion not so long ago on here. That was before they cranked the power creep all the way up to eleven though, so I would do quite a few things differently now.
But overall I can say it would require little work on their side to do the legions in this way even with only minor changes to the existing stuff.

I think it would be the most effective way for them to do the legions if they ever touch upon them. Other than writing an entire codex for each legion that is. The decurions worked out pretty well for the most part, but I wrote them myself so that not saying much

I would like to see another Dedicated Transport or two.
Oddly enough, not Razorbacks as nice as they are, something that does not make them 'Spiky Marines'.
Something like an Ork Truck would be nice for the "Cultist", but if it is a FA choice I know that the Zerkers would not mind.
A Pod or Transport Flyer would be another choice.

Roknar wrote:
Not much choice but to keep up withe power creep for this edition. If they had any intention to balance things properly they would design all the codices for one rule edition in parallel.

As for the decurion styles for the legions, I made a decurion for each legion not so long ago on here. That was before they cranked the power creep all the way up to eleven though, so I would do quite a few things differently now.
But overall I can say it would require little work on their side to do the legions in this way even with only minor changes to the existing stuff.

I think it would be the most effective way for them to do the legions if they ever touch upon them. Other than writing an entire codex for each legion that is. The decurions worked out pretty well for the most part, but I wrote them myself so that not saying much

I'd honestly prefer detachment variations over a Decurion, since formations easily lock you into certain choices, which can become a bit stiff. In a perfect world they would do supplements for renegades and legion.
But i agree, some units need a redesign, not only because they are sub par, but because they are quite boring. The mutilators, possessed and helbrutes are examples of this. The mutilators need to be able to get into CC, and the value of a Possessed squad or a Helbrutes needs to be easier to evaluate, and not depend so much on a random table.

Aye, they are bit stiff, but they are also super fluffy, which is why I like them .....in theory.
It would be nice to have some choice of the odd detachment alongside the decurions.

Something i'd really like is variants on marks depending on the unit it is placed on. Nurgle and Tzeentch works pretty well for both shooty and choppy units, but Khorne and Nurgle are very exclusive for melee units. It would be nice if these marks had something extra which gave giving them to a shooting unit a purpose, it dosn't have to be good, just something more than "my Havocs have an extra attack when charged".

Marks for vehicles would also be a very cool idea.

As for detachments/Decurion I would rather see something like "Take the same mark on the entire army and recieve a bonus" to preserve the flexibility that chaos is known for compared to loyalist marines. Also, incitement to take squads bigger than 10 would be nice.

Obliterator Weapons on Forgefiend and reduce its cost to 150 points. BLAM It's useful.

Helbrutes become Daemons.

Maulerfiends become WS 5. Too fething terrible to explain why a 125 point Melee mongering death machine cant hit a freaking guardsman on a 4+

Daemonic Possession vehicle upgrade (REMOVE IT) or change it to no longer reduce BS and WS to 3. Stupid idea. If I saw this in someones rough copy of a Codex, I'd have promptly beaten them with their own work bench.

Obliterators reduced in cost, gain split fire.

Chaos Land Raider Variants outside FW and spending $200 on Renegades & Heretics.

Daemon Princes Gain EW and get their Kai Guns.

Mark of Tzeentch anything become brotherhood of Psykers. Champions within unit are ML1.

We need more Rewards than Risks to at least keep a good pace with all the top armies that give HUGE benefits for nothing.

Obliterator Formation that allows you to fire the same weapons twice, twinlinked, BS 5.

Raptor Formation with Hit and Run.

Terminator Formation with Scatter Reduction, or like a Daemonic escort/evil Deathwing.

Heldrakes can place their Crash and Burn large blast any direction 2d6 as a spiteful pit dive into the enemy.

A Plague Marine Formation with re rolls for FNP.

Let Berzerkers gain attack for each berserker slain.

Give Noise Marines full BS overwatch.

Make Thousand Sons not only great psykers, but null zone psychic barriers.

And please, give Night Lords auto night fighting with Night Vision and Stealth Adept.

I wouldn't mind being able to take zombies without typhus. Maybe instead use a nurgle sorc. Typhus is a lot of points and really stops me from using zombies atlow point levels.

Love these threads keep them coming everyone. Here's my two cents:



Detachments with bonuses that encourage (not force, encourage) one to actually take chaos space marines (the unit). Loyalists get chapter tactics and doctrines for theirs which is a start. When your basic troops are getting re-rolls to shooting they start to look actually effective.

Allow warp talons to assault out of deep strike. These guys beyond any loyalist or xenos unit must have this ability. They walk the warp stalking the warp signature of their prey and then physically tear a hole into realspace to attack ffs. Don't care if they win that fight and then get evaporated by enemy shooting. The fear that they can appear anywhere and strike is what I want.

Veteran skills, available either through purchase or through a formation (e.g. X units of chosen and lord or whatever).

Better and more powers in the god disciplines.
E.g. Divination-like powers in Tzeentch (Tzeentch is horribly outgunned by Sanctic, Telekinesis and shooting powers from other codexes),
Attacks on Leadership and Initiative and blessings that reward perfection from Slaanesh,
Buffs to toughness and attacks on enemy morale from Nurgle.

A man-portable ectoplasma cannon or something like that. This is totally feasible if they ever do update the havocs models. Actually I would like more warp-tainted ranged weaponry overall.

Units with defined roles that provide synergy with other units. E.g. possessed with scout and a deep strike homing beacon. I would be content if this were our only scatter mitigation mechanic.

Bikes, jump packs, and daemon mounts for Warpsmith, Dark Apostles, and Chosen.

Plague zombies available with any nurgle HQ (perhaps as part of a plague themed detachment).

Open-topped rhino for berzerkers.

Hit and run raptors would be nice to have back.

Dinobots removed and every trace and memory of them erased from the world except for on a poster in GW HQ with the words "Never Again!".

WangoFett wrote:

A man-portable ectoplasma cannon or something like that. This is totally feasible if they ever do update the havocs models. Actually I would like more warp-tainted ranged weaponry overall.

Yes, now we do have IA 13, but i would really like it if they replaced all the loyalist versions with corrupted versions like the Kai Bolter, or reaper ACs, Ectoplasma could replace plasma.

WangoFett wrote:

Dinobots removed and every trace and memory of them erased from the world except for on a poster in GW HQ with the words "Never Again!".

No, these are nice, removing options means someone will get cranky because their favourite model is removed.

Ok, the Dinobots comment I admit was in jest (I don't like them but know many do).

WangoFett wrote:
Ok, the Dinobots comment I admit was in jest (I don't like them but know many do).

I believe you have it wrong. There needs to be MOAR Dinobots.

Everything that Space Marines have, easy.

We need Cult Terminators.

Look at a vanilla codex you know what it will be get. I bet chaos get vehicle squadrons and formations. Maybe a formation for every cult? Those are good things that I hope.

Then I hope a good Thousands sons (maybe option to take special/heavy weapons), Warp Talons with grenades and better daemon engines. Formation for Dark Mechanicus, please.

1) Drop pods

2) Fire Raptors as HS

3) Sort warp talons out

4) Sort possessed out

5) Update entire range of minis

6) Grab equivalent

7) Decent formations

Just my two

Reduce Oblitz wound to single therby reducing cost and increase squad cap to 6 so you can have 6 for 300pts.

Give helbrutes free option for obliterator guns or mutilator arms. To upgrade melee arm to obliterator gun, it costs 10 pts.

Allow Helbrutes in squadrons of 1-3

Break down Plague, Noise, Berserkerz, Thousand Sons, havocs, raptors, possesed and chosen. Introduce Recent Renegade Marines. as part of the initiation they had to trade their armor as gifts to chaos gods and to join the warband that desperately needs new armor and must prove themselves worthy to the chaos gods. They are get scout like armor of 4+, comparable to scouts at 11ppm. They however can later purchase 3+ and go back to being 13ppm.

The squad can purchase Scars, Marks, Glyphs of K, N, T, S. The scar is like a branding of a slave burned on to the skin to indicate property of the coresponding Chaos God.

The scars cost less than Marks and conveys enslavement to the god but the god provides minor favors and above all eligibility. The following god specific upgrades checks for and require at least the squad to have the scar of a particular god in order to purchase certain upgrades. In a sense it is a minimal membership fee with no immediate benefits besides to gain access and eligibility to purchase certain individual upgrades;

The following list is seperate for individual purchase combinations and does not need all to be purchased.

For example, if you just want to purchase inferno bolters and nothing else then you only need first purchase Scars of Tzeentch and then purchase individual inferno bolters. However you may never mix scars of gods and legions into the same squad or jinkng IC much like marks. Each squad may only purchase 1 kind of scars.

Sonic bolters, Doom Sirens (limit one per champ) and Blast Masters (limit 1 for 5 men squad and 2 at 10 men squads and can not combined with stead mounts) and steads of Slaanesh (require Scar of Slaanesh); Points Cost to be determined.

Plague Knives and plague bolters (poisoned bolters of 4+) and blight grenades, able to purchase 2 special guns at 5 man squad, and a new vehicle called the Sporeback as dedicated transport (require Scar of Nurgle);
The SporeBack is a rhino with no firing points and reduced carry capacity of 6 but comes with 2 hml for 45pts without the option to take combi bolters. Points cost to be determined.

Chain axes, Juggernaut of Khorne (Scar of Khorne); Points cost to be determined.

Inferno bolters, disc of tzeentch and additional psychic mastery for aspiring sorcerer (scar of tzeentch). Points cost to be determined.

In additions to the God specific scars are the Legion Scars.

Scars of the Black Legion allow Recent Renegades to purchase up to 4 special guns and weapons much like Chosen. Points to be determined. This essentially turns Chosen into troops without specific HQ.

Scars of Iron allow The recent Renegades may now be eligible to purchase 4 heavy weapons. This would not allow Havoc Marines to be troops.

Scars of Crimson allow Recent Renegades to be daemons with a 5++, fearless, fleet. Can purchase vorpal claws, speed and strenght.

Eligibility for Jump packs and bikes on Recent Renegades; can not take any scars of specific god or legions.

Scars were intended for the purposes of min maxing Scout like marines to have purchase a select few upgrades that full cult marines have and keep certain upgrades from being mixed. For example, Scars of Tzeentch Marines would wear weak armor of 4+ and no invul saves but have inferno bolters and ride discs of tzeentch and cost comparable if not less than Thousand Sons. Or purchase an aspiring sorceror
and additional mastery levels and scoot around in discs of tzeentch with 4 marines as body guards.

Another example would be Scars of Nurgle Recent Renegades would not have fnp or t5 but be able to purchase 2 special guns and ride in the Sporeback dedicated transport. Or the same Scar of Nurgle Marines would upgrade each bolter into a plague bolter and plague knives and ride in a traditional rhino at 10 men strong.

Another option if min maxing would be 5 Scars of Slaanesh marines with a Champion with a Doom siren on steads of Slaanesh to gallop around to deliver a deadly template. Or give them sonic bolters to combine the advantages of cavalry and salvo guns.

Hopefully we can find a good combo comparable to eldar jetbikes.

Marks provide the same bonuses we all know.

Glyphs of specific gods cost more but transforms Recent Renegades into cult troops such as classic plague marines, Noise marines, Khorne Beserkers and thousand sons. And only require the additional purchase of power armor over scout armor.

more later.

half an hour later.
How about more adept Cultits. Bridging the gap between 5ppm to 11ppm.

Slaanesh Cultists:
6-36 men.
For each 6 men in the squad, one may upgrade its auto pistol for a sonic blaster 3 points. For every 18 men, one may upgrade their auto pistol for a blast master.

Tzeentch Cultists:
9-36 men
For each 9 men in the squad, one may upgrade their auto pistol for a inferno bolter (4ppm). For every 18 men, An additional Champion can be purchased. For every 2 of theses champions cultists of tzeentch the pair generates a wc in the dice pool.

Nurgle Cultists:
7-35 men
For each 7 men in the squad, one may upgrade their auto pistol for a plasmagun(15ppm) or melta gun (10ppm). Each cultist may upgrade their ccw for a plague knife for 3 points.

Khorne Cultists:
8-32 men
For every 8 men in the squad, one may upgrade their auto pistol into a plasma pistol. Each cultists may replace their ccw and auto pistol for a single chainaxe 3 points. These chain axes are considered Unwieldy and 2 handed for cultists.

I'd like to see Mutilators and Warp Talons rolled into one unit. So Obliterators are slow, shooty, and can generally fire upon whatever needs to be shot effectively. On the other hand the Mutilator/Warp Talon hybrid would be a fast, assaulty, and can generally assault whatever needs to be assaulted effectively-ish.

Open topped rhinos, so I can assault out of them! Give them less Armour, maybe a 10 all around


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sing your life wrote:
AP4 on the Helldrake's baleflamer so it's less overpowered against about half the armies in the game would be my main idea.

Why? The helldrake isn't even that good to begin with, why nerf it even more?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
1) Drop pods

2) Fire Raptors as HS

3) Sort warp talons out

4) Sort possessed out

5) Update entire range of minis

6) Grab equivalent

7) Decent formations

Just my two

These are some pretty good ones