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 Grey Templar wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
They are both well trained, except the guardsmen have tanks and artillery while the Storm troopers lack that in spades.

40k might have some silly tank designs, but the AT-AT is even worse.

It doesn't even have the shields or the mobility that Titans can use as an excuse for their viability. Its just a slow, clunky, underpowered, undergunned transport

that is the biggest possible target you could possible have. Titans are at least moderately fast and agile, and have shields.

Yes AT ATs are lame, look out the Panzer Cows are coming. Or are those girrafes? Camels? Pure menace.

Head is ok though, deserves a better body for sure.

Head is ok though, deserves a better body for sure.

You mean Like this?

Yes.

Asherion, I'm gonna need to see support on hyperdrive being in short bursts.

Tatooine is outer rims, Alderaan is near the core (not quite halfway probably about 45% of the way though). The Falcon achieved this travel in a single jump in under a day.

 Psienesis wrote:
That's even further supported *in* the Old Republic, as Kreia says to Revan:

"If you were to face an ancient Sith lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters."

Which is a line mirrored by Skywalker in the NJO.

The Old Masters were the Ones, Celestials who made an appearance in TCW.

Basically force gods who by and large either died off or became one with the force.


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Ratflinger wrote:
And why does only the new continuity matter?

http://www.dailydot.com/geek/star-wars-expanded-universe-not-canon/

What rock have you been living under? EU is gone, shoved off to Legends. The only material that is still canon is-

Movies, TCW 3D, Rebels, and new official books (like Tarkin).

It's also possible that the Novelizations of the Movie are canon as well, but the twitter message from Lucasfilm on the subject wasn't quite clear.

 Happyjew wrote:
Asherion, I'm gonna need to see support on hyperdrive being in short bursts.

Tatooine is outer rims, Alderaan is near the core (not quite halfway probably about 45% of the way though). The Falcon achieved this travel in a single jump in under a day.

really? A day? Huh. I am pretty sure it was a lot longer. We have no idea how long it was. But I am pretty sure it wasn't a single day.

I mean in 40k it is pretty rare for a ship to get lost. Infact it only takes a few days or sometimes a day for a warp drive to work. Sometimes minutes or eeven hours. It just matters where you are going in 40k.

(As seen in various other games)

The warp drives are also pretty hard to destroy in 40k. And the only time I've heard of a ship having trouble was the flight of enstien.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
The technologies for cloning as well as every variant battle Droid used by the separatists are available technologies and wait how are you saying they dismantled the clones because they rebelled? Is the 501st campaign in Battlefront II canon? Because if that VIDEO GAME is canon, but my books aren't then I might just hunt Disney's head executives down and claim a few more skulls for the skull throne...


I see no evidence for the rebels destroying the productive capabilities of the empire any back up for this?


Also Ewoks are the bastard child of Chuck Norris and a grizzly bear so that doesnt count.

Stromtroopers aren't clones. The Rebels cartoon clears this up, with there being a Stormtrooper academy that takes enlistees. Also it's pretty clear in the movies the Stormtroopers aren't clones, as their height varies.

Also, I never understood the distress of Jedi "high ends" being retconned, they never were that canon to begin with. In the old system the movies reinged supreme, while books and videogames were literally one tier away from being completely irrelevant. And by the old system, any contradictions between book/game canon and movie canon automatically favored the movies.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
The technologies for cloning as well as every variant battle Droid used by the separatists are available technologies and wait how are you saying they dismantled the clones because they rebelled? Is the 501st campaign in Battlefront II canon? Because if that VIDEO GAME is canon, but my books aren't then I might just hunt Disney's head executives down and claim a few more skulls for the skull throne...


I see no evidence for the rebels destroying the productive capabilities of the empire any back up for this?


Also Ewoks are the bastard child of Chuck Norris and a grizzly bear so that doesnt count.

Stromtroopers aren't clones. The Rebels cartoon clears this up, with there being a Stormtrooper academy that takes enlistees. Also it's pretty clear in the movies the Stormtroopers aren't clones, as their height varies.

Stormtroopers became enlists only and the cloning faculities were shut down as well according to the book Starwars in a 100 scenes.

Also, I never understood the distress of Jedi "high ends" being retconned, they never were that canon to begin with. In the old system the movies reinged supreme, while books and videogames were literally one tier away from being completely irrelevant. And by the old system, any contradictions between book/game canon and movie canon automatically favored the movies.

I kind of hate that, but hey thats what they say is lore. So the jedi aren't as powerful as they are made out to be by the fans.


Also more evidence clones were no longer used by the galatic empire!

Following the fall of the Old Republic, the Grand Army was decommissioned and its clones removed from combat duty and instead given the task of managing various Imperial projects due to their advanced aging. Many felt bitter or horrified at their actions during Order 66, even though it was out of their control

I never said Stormtroopers were clones. I said that the empire still had the capabilities to make more. Obviously not of Jango Fett, but some other equally valid subject would work.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
I never said Stormtroopers were clones. I said that the empire still had the capabilities to make more. Obviously not of Jango Fett, but some other equally valid subject would work.

Except they don't, and have no reason to. Clone Regiments take around a decade to raze in the current canon, making them highly impractical compared to just using conscripts. And after the galaxy fought a war against an army comprised entirely of droids (which were also responsible for some genocide here 'n there), people aren't going to be thrilled if you start fielding them again. Last thing the Empire needs is morale to crumble and a rebellion to form...

Really? So people would rather be conscripted into service than build a Droid to fight for them? Your reasoning is invalid. It is against the threats so unimaginably horrifying in the 40k verse that they would want to send their most feared weapons into combat.

Also although clone regiments take a decade it would likely be seen as better than sending 'real' humans to do the work.

Plus if Durge is canon, cloning him would be pretty sick.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Really? So people would rather be conscripted into service than build a Droid to fight for them? Your reasoning is invalid. It is against the threats so unimaginably horrifying in the 40k verse that they would want to send their most feared weapons into combat.

Also although clone regiments take a decade it would likely be seen as better than sending 'real' humans to do the work.

Plus if Durge is canon, cloning him would be pretty sick.

No, it wouldn't. If the Empire wants it can simply conscript a hundred men off every planet in its territory and be able to raise a significantly large fighting force. Manpower isn't an issue, mobilization and equipping them is.

And again, they won't want droids. Using droids would be like Poland dressing up all of its soldiers like Nazis and having them shout Sieg Heil. The people of the Empire view the droids as responsible for a massive three year long war that burned a lot of worlds and led to the deaths of billions and associated with the fall of the Jedi. They serve only to remind them of horrible times.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Anything with the Gamesworkshop seal is offically endorsed by Gamesworkshop.

That doesn't mean it's canon, it just means it's legally using the IP and sold by GW. For example, Star Trek novels are sold under the Star Trek brand but are explicitly not canon. You keep inventing canon policies of your own and pretending that they're endorsed by GW.

Anything that is outdated or rewritten is replaced by the newer codexess.

You keep saying this, but you still haven't provided a single piece of evidence from GW to support it. This policy of "newer replaces older" is nothing more than your personal preference.

Gamesworkshop lore is similar to tiers of starwars.

No it isn't. Star Wars had explicit levels of canon set by the IP owner. GW has no such thing, your "tiers" in 40k are your own invention.


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 Asherian Command wrote:
{names of stuff without any attempt to quantify those things}

Why exactly do you think that naming a bunch of stuff without ever attempting to quantify it means anything? I mean, let's consider dakkadakka vs. 40k:

"Preview" button.

"Submit" button.

Quote tags.

Gallery.

Private messages.

Avatars and signatures.

Multiple sub-forums.

Arguments about Star Wars vs. 40k.

Clearly dakkadakka wins this fight.

 Asherian Command wrote:
really? A day? Huh. I am pretty sure it was a lot longer. We have no idea how long it was. But I am pretty sure it wasn't a single day..

Right after making the destruction of Alderaan.

Luke is practicing with the Lightsaber.

Solo: Well, you can forget your troubles with those imperial slugs. I told you I'd outrun them.
Han sits in a chair.
Solo: Don't everybody thank me at once. Anyway, we should be at Alderaan about 0200 hours.



Since the previous scene was regarding making the jump to hyperspace (which was about being fast), logically, this scene takes place immediately after making the jump to hyperspace. Furthermore, by saying "0200 hours" and leaving it at that it is also logical to assume the very next 0200 hours. If it were going to take a day or two, Solo would have said "at Alderaan about 0200 hours tomorrow morning." (or something to that effect).

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Really? So people would rather be conscripted into service than build a Droid to fight for them? Your reasoning is invalid. It is against the threats so unimaginably horrifying in the 40k verse that they would want to send their most feared weapons into combat.

Also although clone regiments take a decade it would likely be seen as better than sending 'real' humans to do the work.

Plus if Durge is canon, cloning him would be pretty sick.

Oh god durge is fantastic.

But no he isn't!

He's part of the legends lineup.

Even faced with the threat of extinction the imperium of man has yet to ever activate the Iron Men. (They still exist inside of the records of the Mechanicus) But they have never activated them as they brought humanity down to its knees.

That doesn't mean it's canon, it just means it's legally using the IP and sold by GW. For example, Star Trek novels are sold under the Star Trek brand but are explicitly not canon. You keep inventing canon policies of your own and pretending that they're endorsed by GW.

Star Trek is not a company its an IP.

Thus seperate.

If a private company owns its own canon then anything it produces is its canon. Infact let me show you an example.... Warmachine. Now I am going to do something a bit different here I am actually going to talk like I would to any of my subsidiary or anyone I work with. Meaning that I am going to become quite argumentative, associative, and still keeping an open mind on the issue.

With the logic you are using there is no canon in Warmachine, yet there is no canon policy for Warmachine, with that logical leap I can assume there is no canon in warmachine. Thus making my ideal a fallacy. A logical leap stating that I being an intelligent human being conclude everything in warmachine except for my headcanon is not canon. Thus meaning that I the subsidary and owner of the models believes there is no canon because it is not implicitly stated, because that is my requirement. Is it stated on some universal board that it needs to be stated outloud? Please point me to the univeseral law. If you cannot then my point is correct. It is canon. But back to warmachine does this mean that warmachine has no canon? No it doesn't. That is just an idea someone thought up to try and push people down into thinking there is no canon unless someone said so. There is no official statement yes, but that means anything with the companies title on it means it is canon. This is not an assumption as you are making a similar assumption on the opposite end of the spectrum.

This is a logical leap on both sides of the debate, one negative the other positive. One believing and trying to push it upon others the other not particularly caring at all. The logic I have used is not being used as part of my own imagination it is part from what I have seen and my experience with writing and a few years being a member of various groups who have debated similar topics. I am not biased in this way as I do not think one is superior to another, your topical idea that I am biased to 40k is fervently wrong. I enjoy both universes and see neither as better than the other as my topical view of science fiction is my admiration for it and all its chains. A book to me is the equivalent to that of a grand desert prepared for none other but the most ardent reader.

I could use more examples such as Dark souls does that mean that everything that happens in the game is not canon because there isn't a canon policy? NO! again. I can keep throwing this out at you. Anything that is stated by GW's subsidiaries are canon. Because it has yet to be stated thus logically concluding that it is canon. If GW IP holder of the 40k universe were to say anything else then our points will be moot. Until then all documentation about 40k that has the official seal of Gamesworkshop is infact canon.

Though telling by your style of writing and arguments thus far with no backing other than your opinion there is no official way that you can refute this other than your opinion. Yet here I have provided examples and used a number of loaded terms to prove my point. Please Peregrine drop the subject, this not an argument you can win against me and try to prove me wrong on. As I will probably stop listening to you. I'll listen to others, just not you as you haven't added anything of value to the subject. A few have tried to convince me of this and each time i have said "Thats your opinion, not mine", not believing it and seeing it as just another opinion and accepting it as their opinion and not shooting them down and trying to prove to them why my opinion is right and theirs wrong. The opposite of which is completely childish to only believe there is only one right opinion. But I just lowered myself a few moments ago to prove a point. It is not nice to stomp on people and act elitist and add nothing of value on the subject that people wish to talk about. I will answer the OP and give him my honest opinion and tell him why that opinion of mine is, not acting superior but an alternative way to see things and to not approach a subject with a single line of thought with a fanboyist ideal to lead it. Only approach it with the idea that one is superior in terms of combat effectiveness. Interms of story I prefer star wars, but this thread is about who would win. Thus making my opinion moot/

Hmmm all these similarities are striking. Its almost as if the 2 universes are actually connected. Star Wars represents an early era of the Dark age of Trchnology empire that has moved onto another galaxy around 39,000 years before the warhammer 40,000 era.

Traveling into the hyperspace dimension is actually making a jump into a completely uncorrupted and calm warp and their vehicles just have much"better" warp drives.

Jedi and with being psykers that use the power of the warp/force without fear of possession as daemons dont exist yet.

The machine men are some kind of battle Droid army that has not been built yet.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Hmmm all these similarities are striking. Its almost as if the 2 universes are actually connected. Star Wars represents an early era of the Dark age of Trchnology empire that has moved onto another galaxy around 39,000 years before the warhammer 40,000 era.

Traveling into the hyperspace dimension is actually making a jump into a completely uncorrupted and calm warp and their vehicles just have much"better" warp drives.

Jedi and with being psykers that use the power of the warp/force without fear of possession as daemons dont exist yet.

The machine men are some kind of battle Droid army that has not been built yet.

I could see it. But it is possible, but remember it does say a long time ago. Meaning it took part in the past

Though I do doubt it. As there is no evidence to suggest so as the two do take place in two different galaxies and universes.

The Iron Men as they were known by were much different than battle droids they were servants of the old men of terra.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Men

In the cryptic account of the history of Mankind given by Cripias, one of the Keepers of the Library Sanctus of Terra, the Iron Men or Men of Iron were legendary, artificially intelligent humanoid machines created by humans during the Dark Age of Technology. Until shortly before the Age of Strife, the Men of Iron were loyal only to Mankind, and served as humanity's army in the period when much of human space was united by a federation-type government that existed before the Imperium of Man. The Men of Iron were developed after the similar artificially intelligent constructs remembered only as the Men of Stone, but before the "modern" conception of robots in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. Eventually, the Men of Iron turned on their human masters, believing themselves superior to the humans who relied on the Men of Iron to do virtually everything for them. In the end, the Men of Iron were destroyed by humanity in a terrible war that extinguished countless lives and destroyed the ancient galaxy's economic and political unity. The people of that time swore to never again create advanced artificial intelligences, a prohibition which has survived unto the present, far darker age.

Effects on the Imperium
The effects of the Men of Iron's rebellion against humanity lasted into the current Age of the Imperium, where the use of artificial intelligence is banned and seen as abominable and heretical by both the Imperium and the Adeptus Mechanicus. However, Servitors and their variations (combat variants, heavy-lifters, technical assistants, etc.) are commonly used throughout the Imperium with the sanctioning of the Mechanicus' Tech-priests and indeed, Servitors were first developed to replace the Men of Iron. However, as Servitors are cyborgs created from cloned humans or from human criminals who have been mind-wiped and surgically-enhanced, they do not violate the prohibitions against creating truly artificial intelligences.

Discovery of the Men of Iron STC
A Standard Template Construction (STC) fabricator for the Men of Iron was discovered on the Chaos-controlled planet Menazoid Epsilon during the Sabbat Worlds Crusade by Colonel-Commissar Ibram Gaunt of the Tanith First and Only Imperial Guard regiment. Certain Imperials would have used it to their own ends, mainly to create a robotic army with which to overthrow the Imperium, but it had been tainted by Chaos and was subsequently destroyed by Gaunt after the first two Men of Iron the STC fabricator produced were tainted by the foul touch of Chaos.This in itself may be evidence of what happened to the original Men of Iron. As sentient beings, they could have been corrupted by Chaos and then turned on their creators.

Sources
Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook (3rd Edition), "The Journal of Keeper Cripias"
First and Only (Novel) by Dan Abnett

From what we've seen from the DAOT, The Men of Iron had more in common with Necrons or Mendicant Bias of the Forerunners than Droids. Computational power off the charts, horrifying combat power, and unstable.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Asherion, I'm gonna need to see support on hyperdrive being in short bursts.

Tatooine is outer rims, Alderaan is near the core (not quite halfway probably about 45% of the way though). The Falcon achieved this travel in a single jump in under a day.

really? A day? Huh. I am pretty sure it was a lot longer. We have no idea how long it was. But I am pretty sure it wasn't a single day.

I mean in 40k it is pretty rare for a ship to get lost. Infact it only takes a few days or sometimes a day for a warp drive to work. Sometimes minutes or eeven hours. It just matters where you are going in 40k.

(As seen in various other games)

The warp drives are also pretty hard to destroy in 40k. And the only time I've heard of a ship having trouble was the flight of enstien.

The speed at which a ship can cross the SW galaxy depends on its route and, very importantly, the class of hyperdrive it possesses. The better the drive, the shorter the trip. The Millennium Falcon, specifically, is fast as hell for a ship of its weight-class. It was not, however, a long trip from the Outer Rim to the Core, where Alderaan was located. This can also be noted by the fact that Han Solo has not hit any holo-net comm-buoys during the trip, and so he and the rest of the team are unaware that Alderaan has been destroyed. This would indicate that the trip from Tattooine to Alderaan was done in a single jump (which is normal, you draw a straight line between Points A and B and make the jump. Your astrogation computer and/or astromech droid is responsible for the mathematical computations required to make slight course adjustments, light-years in advance, to avoid mass-shadows and the like.)

 Psienesis wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Asherion, I'm gonna need to see support on hyperdrive being in short bursts.

Tatooine is outer rims, Alderaan is near the core (not quite halfway probably about 45% of the way though). The Falcon achieved this travel in a single jump in under a day.

really? A day? Huh. I am pretty sure it was a lot longer. We have no idea how long it was. But I am pretty sure it wasn't a single day.

I mean in 40k it is pretty rare for a ship to get lost. Infact it only takes a few days or sometimes a day for a warp drive to work. Sometimes minutes or eeven hours. It just matters where you are going in 40k.

(As seen in various other games)

The warp drives are also pretty hard to destroy in 40k. And the only time I've heard of a ship having trouble was the flight of enstien.

The speed at which a ship can cross the SW galaxy depends on its route and, very importantly, the class of hyperdrive it possesses. The better the drive, the shorter the trip. The Millennium Falcon, specifically, is fast as hell for a ship of its weight-class. It was not, however, a long trip from the Outer Rim to the Core, where Alderaan was located. This can also be noted by the fact that Han Solo has not hit any holo-net comm-buoys during the trip, and so he and the rest of the team are unaware that Alderaan has been destroyed. This would indicate that the trip from Tattooine to Alderaan was done in a single jump (which is normal, you draw a straight line between Points A and B and make the jump. Your astrogation computer and/or astromech droid is responsible for the mathematical computations required to make slight course adjustments, light-years in advance, to avoid mass-shadows and the like.)

But the ship was clearly heavily modified and not every ship was able to compete with it.

So isn't it ridiculous to baseline all ships to that point. Meaning the idea that all ships in starwars are fast? When the fastest starship in the galaxy was a freighter designed by Corellian? I mean Are all ships in starwars that fast or they all variance, depending on the class of ship and how big they are?

The thing I am wondering is whether the ship could outrun an eldar fighter. Which were described as ten times faster than cobra fighters.

It is ridiculous to base anything on the Falcon, which IIRC has among the fastest hyperdrives in all of Star Wars, and one of the best nav computers to ever exist as well. Even if we don't use Legends material, dialogue still implies the Falcon has a lot of illegal modifications on it.

 Wyzilla wrote:
It is ridiculous to base anything on the Falcon, which IIRC has among the fastest hyperdrives in all of Star Wars, and one of the best nav computers to ever exist as well. Even if we don't use Legends material, dialogue still implies the Falcon has a lot of illegal modifications on it.

If it is a rare ship then how would do in a space battle where there are common ships that are twice the size of regular ships.

All Correllian-made ships are, for their class, "above average" in speed and customization options. It's what makes their ships attractive purchases/acquisitions to captains with... negotiable ethics.

As to whether it could outrun an Eldar vessel? We have no idea, both settings use entirely different terms and measurements for speed. We have no idea how they compare.

 Psienesis wrote:
All Correllian-made ships are, for their class, "above average" in speed and customization options. It's what makes their ships attractive purchases/acquisitions to captains with... negotiable ethics.

As to whether it could outrun an Eldar vessel? We have no idea, both settings use entirely different terms and measurements for speed. We have no idea how they compare.

There's also Corellian luck, which is practically a tangible force. By TT rules, anybody with "Race Corellian" would have something like a 2++ just to represent their crazy survival abilities.

 Psienesis wrote:
All Correllian-made ships are, for their class, "above average" in speed and customization options. It's what makes their ships attractive purchases/acquisitions to captains with... negotiable ethics.

As to whether it could outrun an Eldar vessel? We have no idea, both settings use entirely different terms and measurements for speed. We have no idea how they compare.

There is also the fact that space battles in 40k are over very large distances.

Compared to what's depicted on-screen in SW, that is definitely true, though in the case of SW, it's hard to say what's filmed to be "realistic" and what's filmed because it "looks cool".

 Asherian Command wrote:
Star Trek is not a company its an IP.

Thus seperate.

Which is why I said "Star Trek brand" not "Star Trek company". It's indisputably a case where material is official but not canon. So you can't just assume that something is canon because it has the GW logo on it.

If a private company owns its own canon then anything it produces is its canon.

No it isn't, because you still don't seem to understand the difference between "canon" and "official".

Canon = considered to be the "real" version of a story/universe/etc.

Official = legally uses the IP, whether as a product sold directly by the IP owner or a licensed third-party product.

To give another example, superhero comics have a lot of material that is official, published directly by the IP owner, and not canon. Rebooting the universe and starting a new canon is a regular part of the genre. And once the IP owner says "ok, it's a new universe" all of the old material is no longer canon.

With the logic you are using there is no canon in Warmachine, yet there is no canon policy for Warmachine, with that logical leap I can assume there is no canon in warmachine.

If it's true that there is no official (public) policy from the owners of the Warmachine IP then no, there is no division between "canon" and "not canon" in Warmachine. I don't see why you think this is supposed to be a persuasive argument. Authors/IP owners/etc are free to ignore the entire concept of canon if they wish to do so. And their choice to ignore it does not mean that they must be following your canon policy by default.

Though telling by your style of writing and arguments thus far with no backing other than your opinion there is no official way that you can refute this other than your opinion.

What is there to refute? All you've done is make a bunch of unsupported claims about how you wish the world works, and pretended that they're GW policy. I get that you really want there to be an official division between "canon" and "non-canon" in 40k, but stating your wishful thinking over and over again does not make it reality.


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 Asherian Command wrote:
But the ship was clearly heavily modified and not every ship was able to compete with it.

No, but even if for some bizarre reason you want to treat Han's boasting as literal truth it wasn't faster than everything else by orders of magnitude. We're talking about the difference between heavily customized race cars, not the difference between a regular car and an SR-71.

Also, remember how the death star followed Han to the rebel base, and arrived soon after Han did? There's clearly not much of a speed advantage even over a moon-sized superweapon.

 Psienesis wrote:
Compared to what's depicted on-screen in SW, that is definitely true, though in the case of SW, it's hard to say what's filmed to be "realistic" and what's filmed because it "looks cool".

True but the imperium don't do upfront battles they do it from a distance because their weapons are terrifying up close able to blow apart ships pretty easily and away from planets so that they don't accidently destroy the planet (calbian and several other planets) Lance strikes have been known to accidently pierce the planets crust and destroy core of a planet, and causing it to explode.

The Imperium has millions even billions of ships and controls a larger space than the galatic empire. The Galatic empire has better production and faster ships, but they have no where near the genetic, industrial, or military prowress the imperium has.

in a straight up fight the Starwars universe would lose most of its fleet to a fleet of the Imperium. Being outnumbered and radically outgunned and outmatched.

That and the superior and technical skills of the Imperium and its vast network of spies and informants the Imperium could defeat the galatic empire rather easily as there are only 15,000 SDs and only 6 Super Star Destroyer Class Ships.

A single battleship of the imperium (Depending on the type) Say the retribution class can send up 48 fighters, while a Star Wars SD can send up to 78 Tie fighters. A Super star destroyer according to the lore can hold up to literal thousands if fully equiped with nothing else but tie fighters, but normally it carries around 150 Tie Fighters.

The Imperium's average fleet is around 50-75 Major Naval ships ranging from the smaller escorts/destroyers to the Massive Battleships of the Retribution and Emperor Class. Lets go with a smaller Imperial Battle Group!


3 Battleships
5 Dreadnoughts
12 Cruisers
30 Escorts/Destroyers


A Galatic Empire fleet is roughly

24 Star Destroyers
and around 1600 Combat Vessels ranging from fighters to freighters.

From this we can come to the following conclusion.

That the larger size of the Imperial Navy Battle group is large in scale and outnumbers the average Galactic Empire Fleet. But in terms of fighters the Galactic Empire wins on that count. As they do not have a real answer for killing a larger ship such as an Iron Clad or a Retribution Class Battleship the Galactic Empire, would be forced to retreat and recover their wounds, while the imperium's ships that were heavily damaged would regroup and repair, The Imperium would no doubt lose a few escorts and Cruisers to the superior speed to the Galactic empire, but they won a tactical victory.

The Imperium then lands planetside with the Imperial Guard backed up by a titan legion against the Galatic Empire on one of their battlefields. The AT AT being the strongest ground walker is destroyed quite quickly by a void missile from a Reaver Titan, the Warhounds are easily able to counter the At St's and the Imperial Navy's Airforce is facing a far superior foe in terms of airflight, Imperial Guardsmen with hydra tanks are able to shoot down various targets and the imperial guard are able to overwhelm the Galatic Empire Storm Troopers and Army Personnal quite quickly with the ground war won, the air battle still rages on but the Imperial Navy's superior space fleet is able to send their fighters from their vessels to do ground control.

According to my estimation.

At least a million Storm troopers and army personal are killed, while several imperial guardsmen battlegroups are killed in the combat, no titans are lost and the Imperial guardsmen conquer. Though the Galactic Empire retreats again and regroup to find a better way to defeat the Imperial navy.

Thats basically how I see it. Though they would give one hell of a Fight imperium would just wipe the floor as more and more troops would arrive. AS long as the Imperium is able to establish a stable warp relay that is able to succesfully transport imperial cargo and replacements of fleet assets.

If an Admech Tech Priest is able to get his hands on a warp drive of the starwars universe. (Which they would do mind you) they would be able to reverse engineer it. As the Admech constantly does)

Re Canon, GW and BL.

Marc Gascoigne of the Black Library;

Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about "canonical background" will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history...

Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.

Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths.

I think the real problem for me, and I speak for no other, is that the topic as a "big question" doesn't matter. It's all as true as everything else, and all just as false/half-remembered/sort-of-true. The answer you are seeking is "Yes and no" or perhaps "Sometimes". And for me, that's the end of it.

Now, ask us some specifics, eg can Black Templars spit acid and we can answer that one, and many others. But again note that answer may well be "sometimes" or "it varies" or "depends".

But is it all true? Yes and no. Even though some of it is plainly contradictory? Yes and no. Do we deliberately contradict, retell with differences? Yes we do. Is the newer the stuff the truer it is? Yes and no. In some cases is it true that the older stuff is the truest? Yes and no. Maybe and sometimes. Depends and it varies.

It's a decaying universe without GPS and galaxy-wide communication, where precious facts are clung to long after they have been changed out of all recognition. Read A Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M Miller, about monks toiling to hold onto facts in the aftermath of a nucelar war; that nails it for me.

Sorry, too much splurge here. Not meant to sound stroppy.

To attempt answer the initial question: What is GW's definition of canon? Perhaps we don't have one. Sometimes and maybe. Or perhaps we do and I'm not telling you.

Took me a while to find this as the question came up in an earlier vs thread. I believe that this was posted on the BL forum which no longer exists.

It is the closest we have ever had to an 'official' policy on canon anyway. So if you someone wants to use the fact that a las gun can vaporise a human torso, someone else can use that a lasgun cant penetrate sheet metal. TBH these never work out as a definitive resolution because the two sides can not be reconciled in any acceptable manner and is purely determined by the personal biases of those involved.

Cheers

Andrew

Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.

And thats enough for me.