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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Might not be 5 could be one playing twice. I'd be surprised if ML was consistently that high.

I still think minoris is a shout but they don't really have the sample size.
   
Made in ca
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer



Ottawa

Are Novitiates worth taking at a casual level? I rather like the idea of them.

I assume the best way to field them is with close combat weapons.

Cadians, Sisters of Battle (Valorous Heart), Drukhari (Obsidian Rose)

Read my Drukhari short stories: Chronicles of Commorragh 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

They are fine at casual or competative

Remember you need a battle sister for each

And generally you want melee weapons. Autoguns suck

The banner is the only option worth taking

If your spamming them you could use an imagifier instead of the banners

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/18 14:39:17


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




U02dah4 wrote:
They are fine at casual or competative

Remember you need a battle sister for each

And generally you want melee weapons. Autoguns suck

The banner is the only option worth taking

If your spamming them you could use an imagifier instead of the banners


Powersword on the superior is decent. 4 attacks S4 Ap-4 isn't bad if you have 5 points left over. Only in Bloody Rose though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
U02dah4 wrote:
Might not be 5 could be one playing twice. I'd be surprised if ML was consistently that high.

I still think minoris is a shout but they don't really have the sample size.


There's no way OoML is actually a 63% winrate. That's purely a sample size problem. I wouldn't be surprised if they level out at about the same point as BR does though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something I noticed looking at 40k stats:

Sisters have a 51% winrate according to 40k stats. However, we're clearly scrapping out those wins to unmentionable degree.

If you look at our average VP (65) vs our opponents average VP (85) one of two things becomes clear, either 1. The data is wrong. Or 2. When we lose we get obliterated.

We have BY FAR the biggest negative VP disparity of any faction in the top 25. Double the next highest (genestealers). We actually have a worse VP disparity than Guard do.

So yeah, data's probably entered wrong.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/05/18 18:29:39


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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

I can only speak from my experience and I am not an avg level player

A lot depends on how you code games

Under w/l my last 5 results LWLLW but under WTC scoring it was DWDLW my point being that with how I play it is really close games.

I would also note that of the 3 losses 2 were Nids players who finished top 8 and the third was the highest ranked tau player (I had really unfortunate pairings or fortunate as close games are the most fun).

The problem I see is that I can't beat nids and unless you have a bad tau player it's a real struggle if they go first other than that it's small wins all the way

BR lists seem a lot more swingy especially on losses they don't have the resilience especially going second and are not going to be forgiving to a weaker player the swingyness was the reason I stopped playing them

I also would note that data wise due to the number of BR games compared to others the BR data will over power the other results

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/05/19 16:52:30


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

ERJAK wrote:
[Something I noticed looking at 40k stats:

Sisters have a 51% winrate according to 40k stats. However, we're clearly scrapping out those wins to unmentionable degree.

If you look at our average VP (65) vs our opponents average VP (85) one of two things becomes clear, either 1. The data is wrong. Or 2. When we lose we get obliterated.

We have BY FAR the biggest negative VP disparity of any faction in the top 25. Double the next highest (genestealers). We actually have a worse VP disparity than Guard do.

So yeah, data's probably entered wrong.
Could be bad data. Could be Win Small, Lose Big. That being said, the amount of the disparity is a bit odd.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

The other option is a small subset of players regularly winning but a large group of players losing big like you used to see in ork data ( a high skill threshold)
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 alextroy wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
[Something I noticed looking at 40k stats:

Sisters have a 51% winrate according to 40k stats. However, we're clearly scrapping out those wins to unmentionable degree.

If you look at our average VP (65) vs our opponents average VP (85) one of two things becomes clear, either 1. The data is wrong. Or 2. When we lose we get obliterated.

We have BY FAR the biggest negative VP disparity of any faction in the top 25. Double the next highest (genestealers). We actually have a worse VP disparity than Guard do.

So yeah, data's probably entered wrong.
Could be bad data. Could be Win Small, Lose Big. That being said, the amount of the disparity is a bit odd.


So to thought exercise it out:

You play 10 games. You win 5, your opponent's win 5 (approximately correct winrate) All of their wins are 100pts, all of their losses are 70pts. That averages out to 85pts and is the broadest distribution you can do because you're dealing with 5 perfect wins.

For you to win 5 games but still average 65pts, let's make it easy and say all 5 wins are ALSO perfect 100s. That would mean that all 5 losses would need to be 30pts. So every win you have would be 100-70 and every loss would be 30-100.

So it's absolutely possible to win that many games and still have that terrible of a point differential, but it means incredibly narrow victories and insanely onesided blowouts almost across the board. It also means that our average VP scored would be less than our opponents VP scored in their average loss, which is pretty funny.

Now, extrapolating this out a bit (and adding in some additional stats from the 40k Dashboard thing) we can draw some EXTREMELY tentative conclusions:

1. Sisters of Battle are NOT winning through overpowering their opponents. Not ever. Just about every fight is a nail biter. This likely means that learning good objective play is your only real route to victory. We're not Nids who can just table people and move on.

2. Sisters of Battle are extremely poor at denying their opponent's scoring. If our opponents are averaging 85VP despite losing 52% of their games, clearly this is a major problem for us.

3. Any future buffs we might receive (not that we necessarily will) are likely going to be eaten up here, rather than in winrates. Point drops to overpriced units like Paragons, Dominions, Sacresants, Armorium Cherubs, The Triumph, Castigators, Exorcists, celestians, dialogus, Mortifiers, Penitent engines (seriously, compare a Bonesword Deathspitter Warrior to a Mortifier/pengine. It's horrifying), arcoflagellants, the battle sanctum, or the Immolator, will be seen more raising the floor than the ceiling.

Clarifying that this data only represents March 31st to May 19th. Data going to the beginning of the year is much less skewed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
U02dah4 wrote:
The other option is a small subset of players regularly winning but a large group of players losing big like you used to see in ork data ( a high skill threshold)


It's definitely possible. The stats sort of back it up too. Admech and Deathwatch are the only armies that have a worse VP differential and they have an even higher skillgap between veteran and casual players.

That said, that's out of less total games between BOTH factions and neither has a 40% or better winrate in the same time period. So even then, we're still a very unique case.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/19 17:48:58


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Flailing Flagellant




ERJAK wrote:
So looking at the 40k fight club stats, I was definitely wrong in saying the dataslate was an overall nerf.

I still contend that AoC isn't as big of a change for us as people say it is, but our matchup into nids being reasonable (we're actually top half of factions because we manage to win 33%) and Tau/Harlies being reigned in a little bit were so massive for us it kind of overshadowed any and all effect of AoC. Also the extra miracle dice put pretty much every sisters list on 12VP to start thanks to leap.

We are also dead in the center of the winrate vs representation chart. We are the perfect army. All should strive to be as we are.

As far as subfactions go, only Bloody Rose really has enough of a sample size to draw reasonable conclusions (167 games) and their 56% winrate is encouraging.

Valorous heart is the next most represented, but is not doing anywhere near as well(48% winrate on 64 games). This is in line with what I predicted at least as far as subfactions go so I wasn't totally in the weeds. Rerolling wounds isn't really necessary against us and losing it doesn't really punish armies very much. Nids mostly going in on mortal wounds and wounding us on 2s a lot of the time is also big.

Our Martyrd Lady (in my opinion the only other viable option after BR) is showing a very respectable 63% winrate. However, that's only over 27 games so any data you draw there would only consist of what...5 different players? We'll see if it starts to catch on more as people realize just how good Junith is with AoC.

Exluding armies that don't list their subfactions, Argent Shroud is the only other Order with even mediocre data (25 games) and they're doing terrible (36% winrate). Trying to outgun top tier shooting armies with post-6th nerf retributors and overpriced Paragon warsuits wasn't ever really going to work. Props to the brave souls that tried it.


So...does this mean we are good again? Honestly while I am a competitively-minded player I have only really participated in FLGS tournaments. While I have usually placed reasonably well (Top 4 usually with a 3rd or 2nd place finish) I also have traditionally played VH or even Minoris Convictions (though this also means almost nothing because the last local Tournaments I played in were in 2018 with the bet codex and before that the index rules). I have been thinking of going back to the local tournament scene so I want to see how much of a chance I have if I am not playing BR or OoML, which seems to be about 48% lol. My meta is all over the place but I can confirm that the Tyranids players in my area are pretty few and far between (at least for now).

I personally just really do not enjoy playing BR or OoML and despite loving to win tournament games I am primarily there to enjoy what I am playing, so at this point I just hope that the other major Orders get some kind of supplement either by the end of 9th or in early 10th. The various data is incredibly interesting, but it does suck that we may just be getting obliterated when we do lose. Win small and lose big just feels like a mixed bag, so I hope it may be poor data entry.

The Emperor Protects his Faithful! For the Glory of His Name!
~4000 Points of Sisters
~1000 Points of SW
~1000 Points of Tau
~1000 Points of Guard

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Tyranids dominate for now and tau players going first are insanely strong

Vs anyone else I'm confidant of a small win playing minoris +1 to hit on attack/can't be wounded on 1,2 using Novitiate spam

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/21 06:13:52


 
   
Made in nz
Been Around the Block




Does anybody have some general tips for getting the most out of our miracle dice?

I've played a few games and so far I feel that I haven't been effectively utilizing them, admittedly one of the games I rolled mostly twos. Often I've ended games with a whole lot of unused miracle dice, especially 2s, 3s, and 4s. I can see the moment of grace and faith & fury can be really clutch stratagems, and miraculous abilities too.

I don't really have a feel for how long to save 6s for, for instance, or whether the litanies relic is a good purchase. It seems to me the best general uses are auto passing charge rolls and using 5s or 6s for damage rolls for melta weapons.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

To me, the best use is to save two dice that add up to 9 in order to auto-pass a charge roll from reserves. Having a 6 squirreled away for a melta damage roll is sometimes nice as well (or you could use it to pass a save that you would have otherwise most likely failed). 1's are useful to auto-pass Morale, and even 2's could work for that provided you didn't lose too many models from a squad. That's probably the best way to make A Leap of Faith work.

Honestly I'm not sure I use them to the fullest either, but those are my main uses for them.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 4/26/22, including modeled wargear options):
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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

The best use for them is leap of faith which you should be maxing every game

The second best use is miracle abilities which are essential at competative level

Then auto chargeing/ guaranteeing an advance to an objective

Getting a 6 on a melta role

And if you have spare bringing a character back from the dead

As to Leap of faith remember you can still use your low dice to fail I quite often use a 1 or a 2 for saving throw on a squad that has taken more than enough hits to be wiped just to use the dice
   
Made in us
Flailing Flagellant




I have not been able to utilize my Miraculous Abilities to full affect in almost any game of 9th so far. I usually bring Emperor's Grace to deny reroll and then sometimes Rapturous Blows or even Word of the Emperor but ever since the codex came out I just feel like I am under utilizing those abilities. Honestly my most effective uses with Emperor's Grace were back before the VH change where I would just have a tarpit Canoness with the 5+++ VH WT and then the auto transhuman relic that adds to wounds and save (Surplice of St Istalea?) along with the d3 wounds back each turn. At least against some semi-competitive opponents I was able to just tarpit units of big melee threats, and then casually she was just holding back Sanguinary Guard and other somewhat "scary" melee units.

Any advice on using the Miraculous effects in the best way possible though would be great. It could be that sometimes my deployment is just off, either I am not placing my Canoness or Palatine in the center of enough units for the defensive buff to work, or they are not charging along with Repentia/Sacresants/other melee threats to get enough use out of Rapturous or Word.

Thanks in advance!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/22 20:36:24


The Emperor Protects his Faithful! For the Glory of His Name!
~4000 Points of Sisters
~1000 Points of SW
~1000 Points of Tau
~1000 Points of Guard

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




U02dah4 wrote:The best use for them is leap of faith which you should be maxing every game

The second best use is miracle abilities which are essential at competative level

Then auto chargeing/ guaranteeing an advance to an objective

Getting a 6 on a melta role

And if you have spare bringing a character back from the dead

As to Leap of faith remember you can still use your low dice to fail I quite often use a 1 or a 2 for saving throw on a squad that has taken more than enough hits to be wiped just to use the dice


To expand upon this, there is a general hierarchy of miracle dice value:

1. Leap of Faith: Especially for low dice, there is NO more valuable use for a miracle dice than getting leap of Faith (which you should just bolt onto your list) to 12. After 12 then you move down the chart.
2. For any dice of 1, passing a morale check. It's the only thing a 1 does so if you're not using it for leap, use it for attrition.
3. Guaranteeing a Charge
4. Guaranteeing a kill by modifying the damage roll. (note this includes triggering abilities that are guaranteed to kill a valuable target)
5. Guaranteeing survival of a valuable model (vehicle/character or battle sister capturing an objective) Note that this includes Moment of Grace and Divine Intervention.
6. Using a miraculous ability. Generally not a great way to spend a 6 if you handle your movement well, but absolutely the best way to spend a 2.
7. Guaranteeing an important advance.
8. Guaranteeing a high damage roll.
9. Guaranteeing a successful save in a non-pivotal moment.
10. Using a 6 on a hit roll with a 6 trigger to also guarantee a 6 trigger on the wound roll (i.e. The Passion+Blade of Sacrifice) with Faith and Fury.
11. Using a 6 on a hit roll with a 6 trigger that's relevant (Celestine, Morvenn)
12. Succeeding a wound.
13. Succeeding a hit.

GFdoubles wrote:I have not been able to utilize my Miraculous Abilities to full affect in almost any game of 9th so far. I usually bring Emperor's Grace to deny reroll and then sometimes Rapturous Blows or even Word of the Emperor but ever since the codex came out I just feel like I am under utilizing those abilities. Honestly my most effective uses with Emperor's Grace were back before the VH change where I would just have a tarpit Canoness with the 5+++ VH WT and then the auto transhuman relic that adds to wounds and save (Surplice of St Istalea?) along with the d3 wounds back each turn. At least against some semi-competitive opponents I was able to just tarpit units of big melee threats, and then casually she was just holding back Sanguinary Guard and other somewhat "scary" melee units.

Any advice on using the Miraculous effects in the best way possible though would be great. It could be that sometimes my deployment is just off, either I am not placing my Canoness or Palatine in the center of enough units for the defensive buff to work, or they are not charging along with Repentia/Sacresants/other melee threats to get enough use out of Rapturous or Word.

Thanks in advance!


So remember that the Miraculous Abilities are declared during your Command phase and basically become an aura until the start of your NEXT command phase. That means you have plenty of time to plan out your movement phase to best get value out of it. It also means that you should start planning for it the turn BEFORE you use it. ESPECIALLY the offensive ones.

For the two offensive abilities, if you want to use them turn 2, you need to have your plan fully dialed in at the end of your turn 1 movement phase. Rapturous Blows and Word of the Emperor both benefit a lot from extra attacks and rerolls. You want to put yourself in a position where multiple units are are being affected who are as buffed up as you can get them. Make sure characters like Vahl or Junith (if you're OoML) are in range to put their buffs on something valuable (a big squad of Zephyrim, a fully kitted squad of noviates, literally any amount of repentia.) Also, you should ALWAYS be using Fiery Oratory in conjunction with either ability because A. It guarantees that war hymn will be active and B. Allows you to reposition before you need to cast it.

Remember that these abilities only effect <Order> units, so using Celestine or Stern to absorb overwatch is always a great idea to maximize the number of models benefiting. Also, if you are running Celestine, using Suffering and Sacrifice to screw over potential interrupts can keep your rapturous units (especially the Canoness/Palantine herself) safe.

For the defensive buffs, that's a bit harder. The obvious answer is to ball up turn 1 and weather shooting for a turn 2 charge. Not always going to work out the way you hope and not usually as efficient as making good use of obscuring terrain. Try to avoid using it as a 'neener, neener, neener, you can't hit me!' thing because quite a lot of armies can still toast you through it.

As long as you're using the Miraculous ability in a way that guarantees or near guarantees a positive VP swing (for example, getting your own stranglehold while the extra resilience denies your opponents) or using it to setup for a hammer blow (keeping your deathball alive long enough to pull off a big WoD turn) you should be fine.

Finally, as much as you should try to plan ahead to maximize value, don't be afraid to use them in less optimal situations that score you VP . Using Emperor's grace to keep a 5 girl sacresant squad alive on an objective to deny your opponent hold more and get you hold 2 is a 8 VP swing despite the ability only effecting 2 units. Using Rapturous Blows to guarantee your Zephyrim clear off your opponent's obsec to grab strangelhold, deny hold more, and get 2 primary off Secure the sanctuaries is a 9 VP swing, again, only affecting 2 units.

TLDR: Plan Ahead, swing for the fences if you can, don't be afraid to bunt if it scores you points.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/05/23 18:06:53


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Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




So a new round of data is up on 40k Fight Club, let's check out how we're doing post Nids FAQ.

First, this data only represents 127 games so far. That wouldn't be enough for me to be confident in drawing strong conclusions for a single faction, let alone the whole army. All data should be taken with a pinch of salt and will likely change drastically as events continue.

Bloody Rose is sitting at 56% winrate with 98 games played, including a 64% winrate against Nids across 11 games! Unfortunately that's at the cost of a whopping 18% winrate against asuryani. If you can dodge eldar, the world is your oyster. BR have positive winrates into every other faction except Harlequins and Custodes (minimum 4 games).

Argent shroud climbed up to a 47% winrate across 19 games. Hard to draw any specific conclusions considering they played pretty much every faction at least once. Pretty good into Custodes with a 67% winrate.

Ebon Chalice makes a surprise appearence with a 68% winrate across 19 games. Specifically interesting because that includes an 80% winrate over Asuryani and a 50/50 split against Custodes. Being better into Eldar comes at the cost of being much worse than BR into Nids.

The others were all 10 games or less so drawing conclusions is even more dubious.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/25 16:25:55


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Flailing Flagellant




Well Ebon Chalice is honestly my favorite Major Order to play (though I still prefer playing with custom order traits of course). So I will be interested to see if they stay even remotely near that winrate and hopefully start to do more of a 50/50 split against Tyranids.

Glad to see that BR is at least doing well against the biggest of the scary matchups, though the Eldar matchup results are a bit disheartening so far. Also nice to see AS being even better against Custodes than BR as of this moment.

I know we can't draw too much from all this but regardless it is nice to see that we are doing pretty well still.

Also thanks for the advice on the Miraculous abilities above! One of the hardest things I am dealing with still is just popping them in the Command Phase honestly. I almost wish they happened at the end of the movement phase or something (though I know this would cause other problems). I just often have the characters with them in transports of some kind in casual games (yes I know, usually I don't bring transports for my characters but in certain narrative based games or crusade matches I do) and when they are actually on the table for it I just find them out of place and even a movement phase afterward to get them into position sometimes isn't enough. Still though, your suggestions will help me!

The Emperor Protects his Faithful! For the Glory of His Name!
~4000 Points of Sisters
~1000 Points of SW
~1000 Points of Tau
~1000 Points of Guard

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




A WILD lists on goonhammer:

Sisters Melee Skew – Bloody Rose drops a 5-1 with a 20 of battle sisters, 2 squads of Novitiates, 10 Zephyrim, 30 Arco Flagellants and 2×10 Repentia. Celestine and Stern provide some back up heavy hitters and Vahl is notably riding the bench.
The whole list is pure meta call that absolutely worked out for him. His best anti-tank is CELESTINE, so the list was built entirely to beat Craftworld eldar and less control focused nid lists. Fortunately for him, he played those types of armies 4 out of 6 rounds. The only other armies he played against were deathguard (who are easy for a list like this to outmanuever) and Custodes (who dumpstered him round 1)

The 20 of BSS is less and less surprising as the objective control the unit offers, combined with being able to Transhuman T3 models, makes it very hard for both Nids and Harlequins to shift economically.

The list is interesting because against armies like Eldar or Harlies, it's pure aggro. Against armies like deathguard, it's never going to kill anything so it's pure objective play. This was definitely a list of the moment that was played very well, so don't go buy too many boxes of arcos just yet.

The 13th place list in alberta was pretty standard.

War Calls GT saw a VERY standard Bloody Rose list absolutely decimate Orkz in the finals.

Looking at his final schedule, the matchups weren't bad, but basically everybody he played ended top 16 and he SHELLACKED every round, nearly maxing out his score several times and never letting an opponent get within 20VP. Props to the guy, he played a picture perfect event.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/25 18:26:29


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Longtime Dakkanaut





Hmmm, sisters are doing really well! What changed for sisters? Was it armor of contempt? I don't remember they got any buffs other than that.
   
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Eldenfirefly wrote:
Hmmm, sisters are doing really well! What changed for sisters? Was it armor of contempt? I don't remember they got any buffs other than that.


I'm a bit biased but I feel like AoC isn't the biggest contributor to our current success (as can be seen by the preponderance of repentia). In my opinion our 3 big changes are:

1. The extra miracle dice we get per battle round means that basically ANY list can get 12pts on leap of faith and there's nothing your opponent can do about it.

2. The nerfs to indirect fire mean we don't auto-lose to Tau anymore and other factions with good non-LoS shooting are disinclined to actually bring them. Nothing feths over a sisters player harder than ignoring LoS

3. We actually have a surprisingly decent matchup into nids. They're obviously stronger than us, but we have tools to handle their psychic as well as being able to deal with warrior/raveners/harpies easier than a lot of other factions. The issue is we can't deal with all of them at once. Still, relatively higher winrate means we go up the rankings.


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So I see people take Chaplet of Sacrifice on Canonesses a lot.

I get why. Divine intervention lets you use the fight on death ability twice, potentially. I'm just not sure that in addition to getting Martyrdom for free is really worth it?

It makes me think people are using it for divine intervention and you very explicitly can't use Chaplet's free strat for that.

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Glasgow

1) you get to reroll hits (including your pistol) which is always a nice buff.

2) I Often use the stratagem for extra miracle dice when my warlord dies. This saves you the CP.. if I would be doing that anyway and I'm taking another relic way not get some free buffs for the same price


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ERJAK wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
Hmmm, sisters are doing really well! What changed for sisters? Was it armor of contempt? I don't remember they got any buffs other than that.


I'm a bit biased but I feel like AoC isn't the biggest contributor to our current success (as can be seen by the preponderance of repentia). In my opinion our 3 big changes are:

1. The extra miracle dice we get per battle round means that basically ANY list can get 12pts on leap of faith and there's nothing your opponent can do about it.

2. The nerfs to indirect fire mean we don't auto-lose to Tau anymore and other factions with good non-LoS shooting are disinclined to actually bring them. Nothing feths over a sisters player harder than ignoring LoS

3. We actually have a surprisingly decent matchup into nids. They're obviously stronger than us, but we have tools to handle their psychic as well as being able to deal with warrior/raveners/harpies easier than a lot of other factions. The issue is we can't deal with all of them at once. Still, relatively higher winrate means we go up the rankings.



I think that's more of a build point the B/R lists fight well into nids the board control lists don't but the board control lists are better in other match ups such as aeldari. Nids will likely be nerfed soon and that probably favours board control in the longer term.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/26 20:49:15


 
   
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U02dah4 wrote:
1) you get to reroll hits (including your pistol) which is always a nice buff.

2) I Often use the stratagem for extra miracle dice when my warlord dies. This saves you the CP.. if I would be doing that anyway and I'm taking another relic way not get some free buffs for the same price


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ERJAK wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
Hmmm, sisters are doing really well! What changed for sisters? Was it armor of contempt? I don't remember they got any buffs other than that.


I'm a bit biased but I feel like AoC isn't the biggest contributor to our current success (as can be seen by the preponderance of repentia). In my opinion our 3 big changes are:

1. The extra miracle dice we get per battle round means that basically ANY list can get 12pts on leap of faith and there's nothing your opponent can do about it.

2. The nerfs to indirect fire mean we don't auto-lose to Tau anymore and other factions with good non-LoS shooting are disinclined to actually bring them. Nothing feths over a sisters player harder than ignoring LoS

3. We actually have a surprisingly decent matchup into nids. They're obviously stronger than us, but we have tools to handle their psychic as well as being able to deal with warrior/raveners/harpies easier than a lot of other factions. The issue is we can't deal with all of them at once. Still, relatively higher winrate means we go up the rankings.



I think that's more of a build point the B/R lists fight well into nids the board control lists don't but the board control lists are better in other match ups such as aeldari. Nids will likely be nerfed soon and that probably favours board control in the longer term.


Eldar are likely to get nerfed also. If you look at the stats, the only thing keeping Eldar out of the 65+% winrate range is their 35% winrate matchup into nids. If they hit nids without hitting Eldar or Harlies again, we end up in the same place we're at now.

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Flashy Flashgitz




North Carolina

ERJAK wrote:
So I see people take Chaplet of Sacrifice on Canonesses a lot.

I get why. Divine intervention lets you use the fight on death ability twice, potentially. I'm just not sure that in addition to getting Martyrdom for free is really worth it?

It makes me think people are using it for divine intervention and you very explicitly can't use Chaplet's free strat for that.


Chaplet pairs very well with Word of the Emperor. Even if your opponent kills her in melee in the turn she popped the aura the aura won't go away until the end of the turn.
   
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More Sisters success from BAO. Here's the top 8 list.

Order: Bloody Rose

Stratagems +

Stratagem: Open the Reliquaries [-1CP]: Additional Relics of the Ecclesiarchy

No Force Org Slot +

Hospitaller [3 PL, 50pts]

HQ +

Canoness [5 PL, 105pts]: Blessed Blade, Inferno pistol, Relic: Blade of Saint Ellynor Word of the Emperor

Celestine and Geminae Superia [10 PL, 200pts]

Morvenn Vahl [14 PL, 280pts]: Warlord

Troops +

Battle Sister Squad [3 PL, 55pts]
4x Battle Sister
Sister Superior: Chainsword

Battle Sister Squad [3 PL, 55pts]
4x Battle Sister
Sister Superior: Chainsword

Battle Sister Squad [3 PL, 55pts]
4x Battle Sister
Sister Superior: Chainsword

Elites +

Dogmata [4 PL, 65pts]: 2. Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude, 5. Verse of Holy Piety, Relic: The Sigil Ecclesiasticus

Paragon Warsuits [11 PL, 240pts]
Paragon: 2 Storm Bolters, Multi-melta, Paragon War Blade
Paragon: 2 Storm Bolters, Multi-melta, Paragon War Blade
Paragon Superior: 2 Storm Bolters, Multi-melta, Paragon War Blade

10x Sisters Repentia [6 PL, 140pts]

5x Sisters Repentia [6 PL, 70pts]

Fast Attack +

Seraphim Squad [8 PL, 104pts] 3x Seraphim
Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Bolt pistol
2x Seraphim w/ 2x Ministorum Hand Flamers

Zephyrim Squad [8 PL, 107pts]
5x Zephyrim
Zephyrim Superior: Bolt pistol, Zephyrim Pennant

Zephyrim Squad [8 PL, 107pts]
5x Zephyrim
Zephyrim Superior: Bolt pistol, Zephyrim Pennant

Heavy Support +

Mortifiers [6 PL, 125pts]
Mortifiers: Anchorite Sarcophagus, 2x Heavy bolter, 2x Penitent Flails
Mortifiers: 2x Heavy bolter, 2x Penitent Flails

Retributor Squad [6 PL, 160pts]:
Armourium Cherub
Retributor Superior: Chainsword Bolt Pistol & Ministorum Combi-flamer
4x Retributor w/ Multi-melta

Dedicated Transport +

Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]


Mostly standard list with a couple of interesting optimizations:

No Novitiates is interesting, apparently just not good enough over BSS. 2 Squads of repentia is on the small side and no Repentia Superior means that the 10 girl squad is going in the Rhino Every time, the 5 girl squad is almost certainly being outflanked. Same with the min Ret squad. Only reason you'd put a handflamer on them.

Paragons are interesting. They're replacing the 10 girl Ret squad a lot of BR armies have flexed into. Not my favorite choice but seems to have worked out here.

Celestine+Morvenn. I knew I wasn't insane for thinking they still worked really well together! Celestine is a crazy disruption piece if your movement phase clean enough and Morvenn's reroll ability will always be great.

My absolute favorite piece, though, is the 2 Mortifiers. I said a long time ago that 2 Mortifiers would work as an arguably superior replacement to the Castigator as a long range chaff clear option and it looks like this guy agrees!

I wonder how much use he gets out of the hospitaller? Seems a tad optimistic to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/30 14:12:01


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Tacoma, WA, USA

If my eyes don't deceive me, this is the BAO Winner list and Sisters had a win-rate over 50% at the event.

That Hospitaller must be doing something right since it could have easily been replaced by a Repentia Superior, who has an obvious use.

And it is interesting that the list went heavy into jump troops. That combined with the heavy elements in Vahl, Paragons, and Mortifiers must be the strategy that brought victory.
   
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 alextroy wrote:
If my eyes don't deceive me, this is the BAO Winner list and Sisters had a win-rate over 50% at the event.

That Hospitaller must be doing something right since it could have easily been replaced by a Repentia Superior, who has an obvious use.

And it is interesting that the list went heavy into jump troops. That combined with the heavy elements in Vahl, Paragons, and Mortifiers must be the strategy that brought victory.


I'm working on a write up for an RTT I went to with THIRTY Zephyrim, and let me tell you, them girls SLAP. My Zephyrim squads were picking up whole units against Orkz, Eldar, and Harlequins. I had 2 units of Zephyrim completely wipe out 2 full units of maxed out Ork Warbikers in the same round. I wasn't even bloody rose!

Two units of 6 Zephyrim in bloody rose will handle basically any 1 wound infantry in the game while being able to take big chunks out of MEQ statlines as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/31 19:46:00


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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

ERJAK wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
If my eyes don't deceive me, this is the BAO Winner list and Sisters had a win-rate over 50% at the event.

That Hospitaller must be doing something right since it could have easily been replaced by a Repentia Superior, who has an obvious use.

And it is interesting that the list went heavy into jump troops. That combined with the heavy elements in Vahl, Paragons, and Mortifiers must be the strategy that brought victory.


I'm working on a write up for an RTT I went to with THIRTY Zephyrim, and let me tell you, them girls SLAP. I wasn't even Bloody Rose and my Zephyrim squads were picking up whole units against Orkz, Eldar, and Harlequins. I had 2 units of Zephyrim completely wipe out 2 full units of maxed out Ork Warbikers in the same round. I wasn't even bloody rose!

Two units of 6 Zephyrim in bloody rose will handle basically any 1 wound infantry in the game while being able to take big chunks out of MEQ statlines as well.

That's what I've been saying! Zephyrim are the new Sacresants! With 3 attacks apiece they don't need to be BR, but they really pump out numbers if they are. In one event last year I ran a 10-girl brick (as BR) and enjoyed my opponents eyes getting wide as they said, "They get HOW many attacks?!" Especially funny when I started tallying up how many bonus hits I got from The Passion...

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That sounds more like your opponents miss playing because they didn't know there value. Their not much tougher than bss and a lot more expensive and hard to hide sure they hit ok but they go down quickly and are not cost effective defensively
   
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U02dah4 wrote:
That sounds more like your opponents miss playing because they didn't know there value. Their not much tougher than bss and a lot more expensive and hard to hide sure they hit ok but they go down quickly and are not cost effective defensively


If people are keeping footslog repentia alive long enough to make good trades, it's not that farfetched to do something vaguely similar with Zephyrim.

A unit of 10 Zephyrim with light cover and Indomitable belief are the same resilience as VH Sacresants pre-AoC (yunno, the only thing that could survive tau shooting long enough to be a decent contender?). They're by no means invincible , but played smartly they last longer than you think. All my Zephyrim squads were outside of LoS turn one and using obscuring terrain to divide the board and avoid eating more enemy fire than I had to. The times I did screw up my movement/deployment I lost entire squads, but so long as I was cagey and thinking ahead, I was able to minimize losses enough.

After that it was just taking good trades. I went down on points early in the two games I won (and the game I lost, obviously) in order to use the Zephyrim's speed with miracle dice assisted charges to take objectives in an advantageous way. My opponent always had a choice: Don't score any VP, or feed units to the incoming Zephyrim. The only misplay my opponent's had was the Ork player leaving 2 units of bikes too close together.

Now, all that said...I did end every game with at most 5-6 Zephyrim left total. They do die to counterattacks fairly easily. But that just leaves Celestine+Morven+Junith+the Retributors to mop up. 30 was definitely too many but I think 20 or so has real legs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/31 19:46:34


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