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I'm writing some fanfiction stuff and it's in a situation where the Ecclisirchy discover that an Inquisitor might not be all that loyal. My question is to what extent would the Ecclisiarchy be able to take action? Could they directly arrest the Inquisitor? Could they order the Inquisition to arrest this Inqusiitor? Would they just be told to shut up and get over it?

Inquisition above all save the high Lord's of terra. Ordo herecticus policies the inquisition, not the Ecclisarchy. In fact, it was created specifically because the high lord Vandare (Ya the reign of blood Vandare), was the high lord of the ecclisarchy and amassed to much power. The Inquisition answers to none save the god emperor and his proxies the high Lord's of terra.

Inquisitors answer only to the emperor in theory so them technically, however the ecclesiarchys big wigs are so powerful they'd have to be careful around them.

Imperium has a very poorly defined hierarchy in practice and there are always many competing interests that vie for power. The adeptus terra, ecclesiarchy, inquisition, and mechanics are the big ones with the space Marines kind of drifting in orbit around them

The Inquisition is more powerful, in theory, but a lone Inquisitor should still walk pretty softly around powerful people like Cardinals. I recall Eisenhorn having a personal vendetta with some priest accusing him of heresy and there seemed to be nothing legal he could do against the guy. Cutting him down in the middle of a Cathedral probably didn't make the Ecclesiarchy any happier about it.

In theory? An Inquisitor's word is law to all save the emperor.

In practice? A powerful figure in the ecclesiarchy could probably disappear even an inquisitor, especially given the strong connection between Ordo Hereticus and the Ecclesiarchy.

The Ecclesiarchy have their own police/investigative force who won't hesitate to test the loyalty of an Inquisitor if given reason to doubt- the Adepta Sororitas.

Some priests take this duty on themselves as well, calling themselves Witch-Finders, although they have no formal training or authority.

The Inquistion is a massive secret police organization with no real oversight and virtually unlimited resources. They can get away with destroying entire planets if they can come up with a good enough reason and their have been numerous cases where they cause massive sector wide disasters for bizarre personal beliefs or benefits. Inquisitors fall to Chaos, go rogue or just go insane on a fairly regular basis which is part of the reason why the sororitas exist at all. Infighting between inquisitors is so common they made an entire game around it!

The Ecclesiarchy is a barely connected series of smaller cults and religions with the same basic ideas but often totally different beliefs. Take every variation of Abrahamic religion, slap it together under the control of the Vatican and then multiply it in size and power by ten. That's still not as huge, influential or conflicted as the Ecclesiarchy. Keep in mind the Ecclesiarchy isn't even a part of the Emperor's plan, they just put themselves in power. This is partially why the Administratum and the Mechanicum regard them as a rival or a waste of resources.

They can launch crusades but these, like the actual crusades, are usually terribly planned, composed mostly of unhinged and untrained penitents and generally cause more problems. Starting a crusade is like throwing a chunk of raw and bleeding stake into shark infested water. The meat is going to get eaten but you can't really control the sharks at all. They might actually start attacking each other (see 4th crusade for a real world example).

One of the Imperial saints in the 6th ed BRB found a handful of SM chapters "wanting" and sent them on a pointless and costly penitence crusade into the Eye of Terror. One of the Chapter Masters was so angry when he got back he just shoved every relic and worshiper of the saint onto a starship which was then shot into a sun/warp rift and personally excommunicated the saint. The justification was that he was corrupted by Chaos but the book gives no backing for that and its more likely he just found these chapters "wanting" an action that hurt the Imperium in the long run.

Honestly each branch of the adeptus Terra is so labyrinthine and poorly regulated that its hard to say which one is the most powerful. They all sort of cancel each other out in the end.

The inquisition has more power, but one shouldn't underestimate what the ecclesiarchy can do

In theory, an Inquisitor still has higher authority because every single other subfaction of the Imperium is supposed to obey anyone who flashes the Inquisitorial seal and give any resources and assistance requested to the Inquisitor. The only one who can overrule that is another Inquisitor.

In actuality, it can work out quite differently. An Inquisitor is just one person, after all, usually not native to the world he or she is working on, and generally operates alone or has only a small retinue at beck and call. The Eccesiarchy in any given area should have large numbers of the faithful masses that are loyal to it. More people on a world might feel loyal to an Ecclesiarchy member, and trust an Eccesiarchy member to represent the Emperor, than they would trust an Inquisitor.

If an Eccesiarchy member suspects an Inquisitor of treachery, any actions taken against said Inquisitor would have to be strictly off the books. The Ecclesiarchy isn't supposed to police the Inquisition, it's supposed to be the other way around. Which could make your story more interesting. If the Inquisitor really is a bad guy, he'd be the equivalent of the movie villain with diplomatic immunity.

If the priest is powerful/smart enough, he would be able to alert another member(s) of the Inquisition of the rogue Inquisitor's heresy, and then he would be like wolves circling a wounded moose; intent on the kill. Another Inquisitor likely wouldn't even need much incentive to take down the Heretic; the prestige boost from taking down a rogue Inquisitor would allow the one who does the taking down to gain significant power and influence.

Of course, this all depends on how powerful the Heretical Inquisitor is. If it's, say, an Inquisitor Lord, it might take dozens of other Inquisitors to bring him to trial and present enough evidence to convict him - let alone kill the Heretic after convicting. This would also depend on the influence and power of the Inquisitors that the priest could muster, as, should he get an Inquisitor Lord to take on a middling fellow, then the whole process would be quick and painful.

tl;dr: Just get another Inquisitor to do it for the priest

There's also the point that the Ecclesiarchy embodies the very faith and belief that unites and structures the entire imperium, if they so chose to move against the inquisition all they would need to do is have their zealots have every follower of the imperial cult on every world especially the myriad shrine worlds and they would have a standing army larger than the imperial guard, hell they'd likely get the imperial guard for that matter.

And considering the Space Marine's attitude toward the inquisition I doubt they'd help either side in that one and rather would simply protect their own.

A lone Inquisitor, in theory, has more authority than the entire Ecclesiarchy combined.

But like everything, it comes down to politics. Both the Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy are mired in politics. So if the Ecclesiarchy wanted to remove a certain inquisitor for whatever reason they would only need to find other Inqusitors who might be enemies or simply members of the Ordo Hereticus and bring them their suspicions.

The Ecclesiarchy wouldn't be able to do much openly. They couldn't arrest the Inqusitor unless he did something so blatantly anti-Imperium, or they'd risk the wrath of the rest of the Inquisition. They would be massive inquiries, committees would be formed, etc... It would be a longass mess of paperwork and bureaucracy.

Of course, the Ecclesiarchy might just skip that and go for assassination.

This is my own structure for keeping the hierarchy straight and is not necessarily backed up by official fluff. I think of the priests/missionaries as the public outreach arm of the Ecclesiarchy, while the Adepta Sororitas serve as the police. The Inquisition is a mix of detectives and internal affairs. The AS will serve to protect humanity from the evils of the universe (heretic, xeno, warped, or mutant.) However, an inquisitor will draw on any force available (PDF, SM, or AS) once they have declared a heresy. These forces may resist the Inquisitor, but know they risk being declared heretical in turn.

Witch hunter tyrus believes his authority higher than the inquisition, this doesn't end well for him.

They have unlimited power, however in practice a inquisitor has to rtead carefully at times, one cannot threaten some groups without risk and threats and force may yield sub par results vs careful diplomacy and tact.

In regard to question, I'd imagine any high ranking cardinal etc will have gained a few contacts and likely inform a inquisitor who they knew and give a Allie a prestige boost, and if successful be allied to a increasingly powerful potential lord or local sector head

40k universe, life, death and great power all hinge on whoyou know,

CleansingFire wrote:
This is my own structure for keeping the hierarchy straight and is not necessarily backed up by official fluff. I think of the priests/missionaries as the public outreach arm of the Ecclesiarchy, while the Adepta Sororitas serve as the police. The Inquisition is a mix of detectives and internal affairs. The AS will serve to protect humanity from the evils of the universe (heretic, xeno, warped, or mutant.) However, an inquisitor will draw on any force available (PDF, SM, or AS) once they have declared a heresy. These forces may resist the Inquisitor, but know they risk being declared heretical in turn.

Previously, the Sisterhood was the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Heretics, expressly designed to police and monitor the Ecclesiarchy for signs of another Vandire, and to cull any members of the Ecclesiarchy who were overstepping their bounds.

I guess it also depends on how the Creed of the Ecclesiarchy is understood:
- is the Emperor a god (i.s super-human) or
- is the Emperor an ascended human (first of humanity)

The Wordbearers were censured for preaching the Emperor as god, and this was the path Vandire was following (to his own benefit of course). Perhaps that was the lesson the original six learned.

Original fluff (IIRC) had the Sisterhood purging humanity of mutation, and the SM were considered borderline only because they were developed by the Emperor.

The Sisters believe, wholeheartedly, in the divinity of the God-Emperor. To believe otherwise is heresy.

The Sisters and the Arbites still perform "purity sweeps" through population centers, it's part of what the Ordo Hospitaler is for, though this is not their sole role (and is, also, not reserved to them alone).

It bears noting that the Adepta Sororitas and the Sisters of Battle are not the same thing. While all Sisters of Battle are members of the Adepta Sororitas, the Adepta also encompasses Orders non-Militant, such as the Hospitaler, Dialogous, Famulous, etc. The "true" Sisters of Battle are those that belong to an Order Militant.

Agreed, the Sisters of Battle are but a small faction within the AS.

Early writings listed the Inquisition independent of the Adeptus Ministorum. While the Ministorum was sanctioned against maintaining "men at arms" the Inquisition was not. The "muscle" of the Inquisition were the Grey Knights.

An Inquisitor has higher authority, but the Ecclessiarchy commands far more power. It is one of the, if not the most, powerful institutions of the Imperium. Unlike the Ecclessiarcy, the Inquisition is not an organised institution. (you never deal with 'the Inquisition', you deal with an individual Inquisitor and his retinue)
In any case, the Ecclessiarchy is powerful enough to take action against any Inquisitor itself, but they could also contact another Inquisitor and have him conduct an investigation. I think this second option is the more likely one, because that way they are not getting involved in possible conflict.

The Ordo Hereticus was retconned in during third edition as the Adeptus Terra's answer to the Reign of Blood.

Thor created the Adepta Sororitas as the Ecclesiarchy's army slash internal affairs unit.

The retcon then said that the Administratum decided that wasn't enough and created the Ordo Hereticus to watch over the Ecclesiarchy as well, and gave them authority over the Sororitas.

The second retcon then gave the Adepta Sororitas their independence back and relegated 'chamber militant' to 'retain close alliances'.

As for Tyrus, Eisenhorn never arrested him, never brought him to justice. He killed him in a street brawl while no-one was watching.

Is the inquisition above the Officio Assassinorum?

 Mantorok wrote:
Is the inquisition above the Officio Assassinorum?

Yes, and the Ordo Sicarius task themselves with monitoring over the Officio Assassinorum. Officially any assassination order is meant to come directly from the High Lords of Terra themselves, but in practice the orders are now relayed through Ordo Sicarius Inquisitors. This was another thing that happened after the Age of Apostasy, in response to the rampant corruption that Vandire spread through the Assassin Temples.

 GoonBandito wrote:

 Mantorok wrote:
Is the inquisition above the Officio Assassinorum?

Yes, and the Ordo Sicarius task themselves with monitoring over the Officio Assassinorum. Officially any assassination order is meant to come directly from the High Lords of Terra themselves, but in practice the orders are now relayed through Ordo Sicarius Inquisitors. This was another thing that happened after the Age of Apostasy, in response to the rampant corruption that Vandire spread through the Assassin Temples.

How? Aren't the Assassins some of the greatest killers the imperium can offer?
Is the Ordo Sicarus comprised of members of the Assassins? Or some weird equivalent?

The Ordo Sicarius seeds operatives throughout the Assassin Temples in order to watch over things in secret. It's probably implied that Ordo Sicarius Inquisitors are ones that have skill-sets aligned with the Assassin Temples anyway. It goes without mention that the Ordo Sicarius are one of the far more secretive Ordos of the Inquisition, given the nature of the Offico Assassinorum.

And yes Imperial Assassins are some of the greatest killers in the galaxy, and its for that very reason that the Inquisition, through the Ordo Sicarius, keep a very close eye on them. Especially so ever since Vandire's corrupt reign of the Imperium during the Age of Apostasy.

The Ordo Sicarius are Inquisitors, not assassins.

Their job is to make sure that the Officio only sends assassins to perform tasks ordered by the High Lords. It's also implied that occasionally they have the Assassin temples kill someone and get it approved "retroactively in advance", which is probably what happens when an assassin gets deployed to a warzone or attached to an inquisitor's retinue without a clear-cut target (i.e. what you generally see on the tabletop)

They also provide a support structure - because the Inquisition has bases, starships, etc, and people to manage them - through which the one-man-armies of the Officio can be put in the field on the other side of the galaxy.


The comments above are broadly correct. Legally speaking, an inquisitor's authority is absolute.

In practical terms, however, any 'Peer Of The Imperium' has absolute authority within a specific sphere and it largely comes down to politics and what forces you actually have available and your relationship with them. If a Cardinal-Astral and an Inquisitor are both pointing fingers at the other and yelling "Heretic!", there's a pretty good chance of a Black Templar siding with the man with the aquila round his neck.

'Directly arresting' - it depends. After all, if the Inquisitor hasn't declared his identity and is acting in secret..... it's not unreasonable for a kill-team to purge a heretic cult and find out after the fact that one of the casualties was an acolyte of the inquisition who'd infiltrated the cult in order to track it back to its masters. This would certainly justify a polite letter of apology but probably no real repercussions for the senior ecclesiarchal hierarchy, after all, how were they supposed to know?

Equally, the ecclesiarchy is one of the richest and most influential bodies in the Imperium - cardinals-astral (the Ecclesiarchal version of Peer of the Imperium) have the wealth of dioceses of worlds at their disposal, and having someone quietly murdered is perfectly feasible.

 Mantorok wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

 Mantorok wrote:
Is the inquisition above the Officio Assassinorum?

Yes, and the Ordo Sicarius task themselves with monitoring over the Officio Assassinorum. Officially any assassination order is meant to come directly from the High Lords of Terra themselves, but in practice the orders are now relayed through Ordo Sicarius Inquisitors. This was another thing that happened after the Age of Apostasy, in response to the rampant corruption that Vandire spread through the Assassin Temples.

How? Aren't the Assassins some of the greatest killers the imperium can offer?
Is the Ordo Sicarus comprised of members of the Assassins? Or some weird equivalent?

Because at the end of the Heresy, prior to his internment in the Golden Throne, the Emperor handed some people a black "I" with three crossbars and said, "These people act at my will, and with my authority, to do what needs to be done to ensure my Imperium survives. Thou shalt not feth with my Inquisition."

And that is how the Inquisition came to be, going from "not appearing in this setting" to "More Authority than Thou" to everyone.

There are 'apparently' inquisitor assassins also. As in, assassins in the temples that also have the role of an inquisitor in some respect. Though they are only there to monitor the temples and it's operatives, and the other operatives are meant to have no idea about their dual role. As you can imagine, these guys or gals are rare, very rare.

 Mantorok wrote:
Is the inquisition above the Officio Assassinorum?

Doubtful. The leader of the Assassins is one of the High Lords. While in theory even the High Lords must answer to the Inquisition, in practice the High Lords are so powerful the Inquisition can't touch them.
The Inquisition does police the Offcio Assassinorum of course and normally this does not give any problems as everyone believes in the good of the Inquisition's work, but should a case arise against the will of the Grand Master of Assassins, then the Inquisition would probably have to drop it.
Imperial politics are not a simple case of X is above Y, it is all a matter of relative power rather than law.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Mantorok wrote:
Is the inquisition above the Officio Assassinorum?

Doubtful. The leader of the Assassins is one of the High Lords. While in theory even the High Lords must answer to the Inquisition, in practice the High Lords are so powerful the Inquisition can't touch them.
The Inquisition does police the Offcio Assassinorum of course and normally this does not give any problems as everyone believes in the good of the Inquisition's work, but should a case arise against the will of the Grand Master of Assassins, then the Inquisition would probably have to drop it.
Imperial politics are not a simple case of X is above Y, it is all a matter of relative power rather than law.

An Inquisitor is always on the council of the high lords also.

Anyway, in response to the original poster, it depends in what situation and location of the imperium (or outside it) you find yourself in. Both factions have an aloof attitude and generaly will try and do what they want, whenever they want to do it, it just depends which faction tends to have the most influence in that given place, at that given time that will depend.

Officially, it would be the inquisition, as their MO enables them to actually be able to assemble armies for wars and crusades including support from the navy, which the Ecclesiarchy shouldn't be able to do. In reality, an influential/powerful/megalomaniacal member of the Ecclesiarchy can persuade, bribe or intimidate their way to exactly the same thing.