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What are the pro's and cons of a Tempestus Scion and a Skitarii Vanguard and which do you think would win if a squad of each encountered each other?

Bearing in mind I don't have much knowledge of Skitarii here's what I think.

Scions have the best training of any non Astartes in the Imperium however they're merely flesh and blood.

Skitarii have bionic augmentations which improve resilience as well as powerful weaponry however they won't have had much more training than your average guardsman, I think built in hardware and software can however compensate for some of this shortcoming.

Its tough to choose between the natural elite training of the scions and the weapons and augmentations of the Skitarii. I think I'd give it to the Scions because I think they'd be more flexible and able to adapt quicker to changes due to their experience and training. I'd imagine a Skitarii could panic or pause due to their inexperience or reliance on their tech and their Magos telling them what to do.

What do you think?

Discuss...

Oof, that's a hard one. Definitely would make for one heck of a firefight.

I'm going to lean Scions on this one, primarily because of their tactics and training. Training counts for one heck of a lot in any army, the ability to stand firm and stick to an objective under pressure is huge. Tactics tie into the training, I believe that the Scions would probably be better at sneaking around and coordinating strikes than the Skitarii would.

Also the Scion's have the advantage of the Hot-Shot Lasguns, those will sting armored infantry targets quite a bit.


However I will also give the Vanguard credit where credit is due; being advanced cyborg monstrosities I'm sure they would be incredibly hard to kill, if any of them got in close where they could fight hand to hand there would be some big problems for the Scions immediately. However again this is where tactics come in, theoretically the highly trained Scions wouldn't allow this to happen. I'm also sure that Skitarii weapons would pack one heck of a punch, again though, highly trained Scions woudln't be ones to get caught in the open.

-Praise the Emperor-

Skitarii vanguard have pretty much the exact rules I've always wanted Stormtroopers to have, but even better, so that's a bit ironic. In strict tabletop terms, the Skitarii win.

Fluffwise however, the bigger issue is that Stormtroopers/Scions are commandos and assault troops, while Skitarii are basic (however well equipped) troopers. They don't really typically perform the same roles. If you're talking about holding a trench line or fighting through a ruined city in a Stalingrad style scenario, I'd rather have the Skitarii. If we're talking about breaking an enemy trench line or engaging in rear area commando raids without direct support, or anything involving significant mobility, I'd rather have the Stormtroopers.

Skitarii. Better weapons, better equipment.

Im giving it to the Vanguard, those Radguns are killer, plus the fact that they have a Tech Priest babysitting them from orbit helps a lot.

Vanguard because even if the scions did kill them they would die from radiation poisoning.

If not the radiation poison then the enhanced aim would probably be the deciding factor, as the vanguard can track targets a lot better and faster due to augments, and they would probably have better tracking due to Omni-spex technology. Vanguard would probably die a lot more because of the hotshot laser guns.

I think another matchup between Skitarii Rangers and Scions would be fun too.

Scion armor is vacuum sealed, does it help vs rads?

 Bobthehero wrote:
Scion armor is vacuum sealed, does it help vs rads?

I don't think radiation would be stopped by vaccum sealed armor unless it's made for anti-rad, like terminator armor would be. If the fluff is true the Radium bullets are so radiated that it causes your skin to fall off, so I think you would need a lot to protect against that.

You can add a thin layer of something like boron or argon gel to the interior of an armored suit, or make it part of the molecular structure of the armor, to make it rad-sealed. In a setting of space-magic and space-science, providing radiation protection isn't that difficult for the elite of the Imperium.

Cyborgs are hard to put down, they do not feel pain, fear or such.

Inbuilt armour, implants, bionic limbs and computer speed reactions. there tough to kill and suprise, even for a Scion.

Computer-speed reactions are still limited by the physical capabilities of the hardware. One might, mentally, be aware of an ambush erupting around them but be physically incapable of moving fast enough to dodge bullets/lasers.

Scions. Skitarri are tricked out but scions have more powerful weapons, specifically designed for dropping foes far more formidable than the skitarri. Skitarri are basic rank and file for the AM. Scions are the best of the best for standard humans.

Consider that a scion is considered more dangerous than a veteran trooper that has survived a couple dozen engagements. That's saying a lot. A skitarri could be any scrub who has had a few parts swapped out for metal.

Crunch wise I'd disagree with most of the others, hot shot lasguns are perfect against T3 4+ targets.

Scions would literallyblow skitarri out of the water fluff wise no competition. Any other answer is ridiculous.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Scions would literallyblow skitarri out of the water fluff wise no competition. Any other answer is ridiculous.

"Skitarii" can literally mean in anything in terms of firepower. Skitarii can range from a dude with an augmentic arm to cyborgs with most of their organs and flesh removed, replaced with steel or stronger alloys, and toting assault cannons for arms.

 Wyzilla wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Scions would literallyblow skitarri out of the water fluff wise no competition. Any other answer is ridiculous.

"Skitarii" can literally mean in anything in terms of firepower. Skitarii can range from a dude with an augmentic arm to cyborgs with most of their organs and flesh removed, replaced with steel or stronger alloys, and toting assault cannons for arms.

Oh noes, I spelled it wrong. Woops. And that's uuh, cool dude. Insert scion fluff here. Point still stands.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Scions would literallyblow skitarri out of the water fluff wise no competition. Any other answer is ridiculous.

"Skitarii" can literally mean in anything in terms of firepower. Skitarii can range from a dude with an augmentic arm to cyborgs with most of their organs and flesh removed, replaced with steel or stronger alloys, and toting assault cannons for arms.

Oh noes, I spelled it wrong. Woops. And that's uuh, cool dude. Insert scion fluff here. Point still stands.

Not isn't. The high quality Skitarii are either on the same level as Space Marines or even better with the level of augmentations they receive. Such as being able to shrug off bolter shots and have anti-armor weapons directly fused to their bodies while enough combat stims to kill an elephant are dumped into their bloodstream.

But the op clearly states skitarii vanguard. This is a unit with models and rules in the codex. Not one of your 'skitarii can be anything' dudes. The main issue for me is that skitarii would be monitored from orbit and that makes a huge difference. As in any match up, either side could win depending on circumstances.

 monkeypuzzle wrote:
But the op clearly states skitarii vanguard. This is a unit with models and rules in the codex. Not one of your 'skitarii can be anything' dudes. The main issue for me is that skitarii would be monitored from orbit and that makes a huge difference. As in any match up, either side could win depending on circumstances.

Personally that feels like a liability. If you knock out the link, skittari are extremely vulnerable. Most of the time scions aren't going to be talking to HHQ anyway, so there is no thread to cut. Plus they are more versatile. Infiltrating, drop insertion, armored assault, whatever they can do it.

Don't forget many scions and their equivalents have bionic themselves.

The difference is... its like... the Scion commander is playing a squad-based FPS, while the Skitarii commander is playing a real-time strategy game.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Skitarii vanguard have pretty much the exact rules I've always wanted Stormtroopers to have, but even better, so that's a bit ironic. In strict tabletop terms, the Skitarii win.

Fluffwise however, the bigger issue is that Stormtroopers/Scions are commandos and assault troops, while Skitarii are basic (however well equipped) troopers. They don't really typically perform the same roles. If you're talking about holding a trench line or fighting through a ruined city in a Stalingrad style scenario, I'd rather have the Skitarii. If we're talking about breaking an enemy trench line or engaging in rear area commando raids without direct support, or anything involving significant mobility, I'd rather have the Stormtroopers.

what about robot ninjas? Those are the skitarii troops for commando raids