Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I'm just looking at my Khorne Daemonkin codex and I'm looking once again at the bloodhost detachment. I must confess: I hate the possessed models. Both sculpt wise, stats wise and money wise. But they'd give me access to the super cool rule of the BH detachment. And then I'm like ''Hey, but I am going to need a rhino to protect them, you know, to make them somewhat useful on the table, considering how much they cost money wise''. And then I just realise than in exchange for this formidable rule, I need to buy possessed and a rhino, which not only cost money, but aren't that useful by themselves (outside of the formation) compared to other models. And now I am thinking ''GW, you sly b*st*rds. You found another way to get to my wallet, eh ?''.

How about you ? How do you feel about formations and detachments ?

I like formations and detachments as a concept. But you are entirely right. As they are currently implemented they are blatant cash grabs. See: Skyhammer Annihilation Force as an example of this.

They are for profit company, everything they do is inherently a cash grab.

On topic I quite love formations. I'm actually seeing fluffy marine , ad mech, and necrons. Powerful but restrictive.

Gasp! GW found a way to make possessed get fielded in a game. Outrage!!!

Seriously just take some tentacles/chains from your other kits and "possess" up some regular chaos space marines. Alternatively the Blood Detachment is not significantly better than daemonkin in a CAD and/or choice of formations. Actually a well designed CAD maximizing the number of effective units and reduces the pts spent on semi useless units. Also gives you ObjSec.

I'm indifferent towards formations, but then again i run guard, we don't have any formations outside apocalypse

They're a cool enough idea, but it's true that many of them are implemented like a bare-faced cash-grab. The biggest offenders would be the Multiple Formation Detachments like Gladius, Decurion and so on which might've been cool and fluffy but just seem like greedy cheese.
Not all of them are that badly afflicted though, there are some that are handy and good to have as well as not being stupid cash-grabs alone (though it is worth mentioning that many of those are just re-jigging lists that used to be based on FOC-swapping HQ units and it kinda sucks that they'd REPLACE that option instead of just adding to it).
As a Dark Angels player my army is built around the Deathwing Strike Force and Ravenwing Strike Force and I might consider some of the small neat ones, but I'd never touch Lion's Blade.

I like them, some like skyhammer and decurion clearly aren't balanced but i actually LIKE having tax units on the field, gives everybody something to kill with their more special units... plus it feels more like a fluffy battle then instead of a competition between two players and i much prefer that

I like the concept. A well designed formation should (IMO) be fluffy, yet also effective enough that players will want to run it. The execution needs a little refinement, but I hope GW keep this going forward.

The concept of 'tax' units is less of an issue with formations and more an issue of Codex balance. If they wrote better rules, no one would care.

I feel like formations have been an improvement overall to the game. Sure there are problems with them, like some being either totally unbalanced (Canoptek Harvest, Demi-Company) or being blatant cash grabs (Tomb Blades, Possessed, plenty of stuff in the Eldar Warhost), but I feel that they've done more good than harm.

They have allowed for the lore to be more directly represented on the tabletop, and reward taking lore-friendly combinations of units in return for specific bonuses. I couldn't ask for more out of them.

The biggest problem is that not everyone has access to these special formations and detachments yet.

Conceptually, I like them.

In practice, some are a great implementation. Others are too restrictive, not restrictive enough, or nonsensical (in the game--in the real world, they are obviously to sell models).

The biggest problem is that GW already does a very poor job both within the codex and between codexes in implementing balance, and now they have a way to further imbalance things. Some formations give the user massive benefits and relatively minor restrictions, while others don't do much more than allow you to field something without going Unbound. Some lists have access to many formations and detachments, and others have access to few or none.

The other problem is that far too many of the formations and detachments are only available in exorbitantly manufactured books. I'm not saying the GW books are overpriced (given that they are nicely bound, full color, hardcovers) but that for the amount of content, especially rules content, a smaller, less, expensive book series would have been appreciated. If you're using the rules without buying those books, that's less of an issue, but the price of the models don't matter if some rich dude is buying them for you, either!

 TheNewBlood wrote:
I feel like formations have been an improvement overall to the game. Sure there are problems with them, like some being either totally unbalanced (Canoptek Harvest, Demi-Company) or being blatant cash grabs (Tomb Blades, Possessed, plenty of stuff in the Eldar Warhost), but I feel that they've done more good than harm.

They have allowed for the lore to be more directly represented on the tabletop, and reward taking lore-friendly combinations of units in return for specific bonuses. I couldn't ask for more out of them.

The biggest problem is that not everyone has access to these special formations and detachments yet.

Demi company seems pretty balanced to me, it's the battle company thats all kinds of unbalanced

There is a cash grab element. They do also help to make fluffy armies competitive. In 6th Ed tau + SM death stars were very strong.

Cash grab? Of course. As a company, what is easier money than selling a slip of paper?

But honestly, I don't see them as a bad thing by any means. More options is NEVER a bad thing. Making more units appealing by giving some buffs to them is also nice. It's also nice when formations are highly fluffy, yet effective.

My major gripe is how they are not being distributed evenly among factions, when they are not even hard to produce/distribute. What I'd actually like to see is perhaps every couple months, every faction gets one. At the same time. No models attached to them (as in, not being a bundle exclusive) and sell them for 2 bucks on the website for a digital download, or maybe even have the option to buy a physical print.

Formations/detachments would go a long way to fix MANY books without actually needing a full overhaul. Or at least, help those books...maybe not fix them exactly. Chaos, sisters, IG, Orks, DE, etc could really benefit from a couple bones each year without needing codex or model releases.

Melevolence wrote:
Cash grab? Of course. As a company, what is easier money than selling a slip of paper?

But honestly, I don't see them as a bad thing by any means. More options is NEVER a bad thing. Making more units appealing by giving some buffs to them is also nice. It's also nice when formations are highly fluffy, yet effective.

My major gripe is how they are not being distributed evenly among factions, when they are not even hard to produce/distribute. What I'd actually like to see is perhaps every couple months, every faction gets one. At the same time. No models attached to them (as in, not being a bundle exclusive) and sell them for 2 bucks on the website for a digital download, or maybe even have the option to buy a physical print.

Formations/detachments would go a long way to fix MANY books without actually needing a full overhaul. Or at least, help those books...maybe not fix them exactly. Chaos, sisters, IG, Orks, DE, etc could really benefit from a couple bones each year without needing codex or model releases.

All of this.

As long as the formations are optional, I fail to see the problem.

You can still play regular CAD with CSM/Daemonkin, or even Unbound. With Skitarri or Harlequins, there might be more of a point to it.

But in that specific example, it seems petty. Seems like you want all the benefits of that formation, but without the (barely existing) downside? No? How does the existance of this formation impinge your ability to play Possessed-free CSM just like you've played them before the book was released?

I love the idea, but they should've waited for 8th to give ALL codexes that option, instead of changing mid-edition. Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Orks and Dark Eldar have access to different FOCs, but formations are much more flexible and interesting.