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 Wyzilla wrote:
I'd also point out that the Krogan "takes your shoulder off" shotgun is definitely hyperbole. Not only do we never see it do such a thing, normal humans make a regular habit of beating up Krogans (IIRC Shepard even headbutts a Krogan out cold once) without sustaining horrible casualties or using BFG's, but "It takes yer gurd durm urm urff" is among the most common hyperbolic descriptions of firearms since their inception. I can't even recall how many times I've heard magnum fanboys talking about how their .44 or larger will rip my hands off when firing.

Typically, at best, "it rips your arm off" is a generous description for dislocation of a limb. If even that.

I really don't feel like replaying the entire Mass Effect series, so I'm gonna be quoting the wiki as fluff. If you don't like it, sue me.

For the M-300 Claymore Shotgun:

The Claymore used to be a hard-hitting but poor-selling shotgun due to kickback problems snapping the arms of anyone but krogan firing the weapon. After a rehaul of its kinetic dampening system, the Claymore is being rolled out again. As a way to lure back customers, the gun's manufacturer has lowered the shotgun's selling price without skimping on its stopping-power.

Basically, the Claymore used to be an Elephant gun on steroids. By ME3, it's manufacturer realized that it would make more money by making an elephant gun on steroids with minimal kickback.

Now, onto the Krogan themselves...

Shephard never knocked out a Krogan. He headbutted a Krogan Warlord in order to help Grunt gain his rite of passage. This did nothing but impress the Krogan, as he felt that Shephard may have understood Krogan ways better than the Warlord originally thought.

I'll start by saying that Krogan are basically the really horny Space Marines of Mass Effect. They have many secondary, tertiary, and quaternary organs. They are as hard to kill as lesser Orks, and the older they get the bigger they are (they're a bit like anacondas). Also, they look like turtles. Really badass turtles.

Now, some pros:

krogan eyes are wide-set - on Earth, this is common among prey animals, and in this case it gives the krogan 240-degree vision

- basically the tactic of flanking them will virtually never work (in single combat, I mean)

Krogan also have a secondary nervous system using a neuroconductive fluid, meaning they are almost impossible to paralyze.

- This would also result in the headless chicken effect, and a decapitated Krogan would likely keep fighting even after he's dead. Kinda like an Ork.

Aside from redundant systems, the legendary krogan "blood rage" adds to the race's reputation for being notoriously difficult to kill or incapacitate in normal combat scenarios. In this state, krogan become totally unresponsive to pain and will fight to the death regardless of injury level, with the side effect of reducing their capacity for logic and self-control.

This is basically just like the drugs used to make the AdMech's Praetorians (their best Skitarii they could possibly create) ultimate badasses, only the blood rage doesn't make the Krogan's flesh dissolve. So, it's like a human being hopped up on adrenaline, meth, cocaine, and heroine all at once, without any negative side-effects but tunnel vision and reduced thinking capacity. One of the key factors of a Krogan Battlemaster is that he has a mastery of his Bloodrage that is generally unseen among your average Krogan, which is part of the reason that he was able to servive the 300-500 years necessary to become a battlemaster.

Sheer physical hardiness means an individual krogan can expect to live for centuries. Krogan can live for well over a thousand years, as evidenced by Warlord Okeer, a veteran of the Krogan Rebellions who died (of decidedly unnatural causes) well over a thousand years after the Rebellions ended.

Basically, most of your Krogan battlemasters are going to have centuries more experience than a SM Veteran (avg. SM lifespan is 150-200 years, due to decidedly unnatural causes).

Battle Masters regard killing as a science and focus on developing economy of motion which allow them to maximise the advantage gained from their incredible strength in battle; a single blow from a Battle Master is usually enough to kill or severely incapacitate any non-krogan.

Think of Battlemasters as the Tech Priests of the Krogan world - cold, hard logic and precise movements.

When pressed to follow him, Saren declined, claiming that only an idiot would fight a krogan biotic one-on-one.

It should be noted that Saren was one of the most skilled SpecOps soldier in the entire Milky Way, and even he was unwilling to take on a Battlemaster one-on-one

Urdnot Wrex is also one of the last Krogan Battlemasters: rare individuals who combine powerful biotic abilities with the devastating firepower of advanced weaponry

Basically, Battlemasters are more skilled than Librarians (no Krogan has ever been reported to die of old age, many surviving for thousands of years of fighting) in the use of magic, as they have more experience, and, quite frankly, they're more powerful (unless the Librarian is a frigga Beta Psyker, in which case, power would be even).

As for armor, Krogan Battlemasters are able to shrug off plasma blasts from Geth Juggernauts, so I'd say that it is quite effective. This is complimented by any Kinetic and/or biotic barriers that a Battlemaster might have. Most likely, the Battlemaster will have finely tuned Biotic barriers capable of deflecting missiles with ease (I emphasize, once more, the sheer amount of experience they have), and will need to be worn down. The kinetic barriers they could, potentially have, would compound the biotic barriers, making for a truly formidable defense.

As for weapons, Krogan make use of pretty much anything they can get that is effective. On top of this, you have things like a toned-down bolter equivalent, a shotgun that's already been extensively discussed, and a pistol that has more power than ten Desert Eagles combined. I think that we can all agree that the Space Marines have significantly better weapons.

As for magic, A Krogan Battlemaster would be capable of using his claws like a toned-down Power Fist via Biotic Power. He could immobilize an Astartes via his biotic power, [urlhttp://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Lift]move him upwards a few dozen meters[/url], and shoot at the ground at maximum velocity. He could create a biotic singularity that would render the Space Marine a floating idiot waiting to be blown up by a biotic combo. He could implode the very molecules that compose the Space Marine, or tear them apart via Mass Effect fields. Honestly, this is where the Battlemaster truly shines.

We all know how awesome Space Marine Veterans are, there's no need for me to go over them, as well.

IMHO, the Krogan Battlemaster would win in the OP's situation, simply due to his centuries of experience that he has more than a Space Marine Veteran, and the fact that he could pulverize a Space Marine via Biotic Powers before the warrior even knows what's happening. I don't care how badass Power Armour is, the Battlemaster could tear it apart at the molecular level on a (comparably) massive scale - effectively rendering the SM armourless in a matter of seconds. If this were a fight between any Krogan but a Battlemaster, I'd say SM would win, but it wasn't, so, Krogan wins.

[/spoiler]
As evidenced in one of the quotes that I provided, a Krogan Battlemaster is simply a Krogan with access to Biotics. I was under the assumption that in a fight between a SM Veteran and a Krogan Battlemaster, it would be between a veteran Krogan Battlemaster - the kind of Krogan Battlemaster that has survived thousands of battles and has a perfect mastery over his biotics.

On Biotics:

Biotics is a term referring to the ability of some lifeforms to create a mass effect field using Element Zero modules embedded in their body tissues.

The Mass Effect Field is the resulting volume of spacetime that is affected by the charged element zero, either by increasing or decreasing the mass within that volume.

Basically, if a Krogan Battlemaster was facing an enemy he could barely even see, he could basically just crate a Mass Effect all around him that massively increases mass, and the Space Marine would be slowed down to a crawl (in comparison to his natural speed).

Biotics is a technology in the Mass Effect universe that describes an individual's ability to manipulate dark energy [aka Mass Effect]fields. It is highly valuable in combat due to its various applications such as protective shields, telekinesis, and gravity manipulation.

Again, if the Krogan is too slow, he'll just increase the gravity around him and make everyone else even slower. No matter how much Power Armour increases strength, it's own weight can still be turned against it.
Something to remember about Biotics: In-game powers are not a proper representation of the actual capability of a Biotic. In order to keep the game balanced, you have to have cool-down periods in between powers, and you can only use them in pre-determined ways. However, we have examples of Biotic individuals flying (via their Biotic powers), while, at the same time, using Biotics to toss platoons of mercenaries around like ragdolls. Then, we have examples of biotics flaying people alive with their minds.
In conclusion: Biotic abilities are the gamechanger, without them, the Krogan loses. However, the Krogan does have them, so Krogan wins.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
On the topic of ME weapon stopping power and penetration...

It was mentioned (first page, I think?) that the rounds of ME weapons are designed to mushroom/shatter on impact, because the weapons driving them are generally over-powered and offer too much penetration, causing projectile blow-through (which means the round enters and exits the target, causing relatively little tissue damage, as was the case with the original M-16).

This may prove to be rather detrimental against ceramite power armor and a Black Carapace. Especially if the round fragments entering the PA, as it will lose significant penetration ability in doing so, and possibly be unable to penetrate the Marine's torso.

It should be noted that the soldiers in Mass Effect (literally all of them) use Power Armour. Mass Effect weapons were designed to take down Power Armour, and many weapons (like Heavy Pistols) were designed specifically to penetrate the thickest of armours.

 Psienesis wrote:
Ehm... no they aren't. Nothing in the ME Wikia provides anything about most suits of armor providing boosts to strength, though most comment that they are restrictive and clumsy, affecting accuracy with all weapons (even Light Armors are noted to only have the smallest accuracy impacts).

Mass Effect armours boost things like accuracy, melee damage, speed, etc. (well, most of them do). That's pretty much what Power Armour does, is it not?

 Psienesis wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Ehm... no they aren't. Nothing in the ME Wikia provides anything about most suits of armor providing boosts to strength, though most comment that they are restrictive and clumsy, affecting accuracy with all weapons (even Light Armors are noted to only have the smallest accuracy impacts).

Mass Effect armours boost things like accuracy, melee damage, speed, etc. (well, most of them do). That's pretty much what Power Armour does, is it not?

Actually, ME armor does the opposite. The heavier your armor, the less-accurate your attacks get. In the descriptions on the Wikia, it is noted that heavier armor restricts agility and movement speed, though I don't believe this is accounted for in the game (then again, I rarely play heavy-armor classes, and have never tried sprinting in Heavy Armor that I can recall).

Ariake technologies armor boosts melee damage by up to 40% (w/ the full set), and the helmet boosts accuracy. The entirety of the Hahne-Kedar armor line is devoted to maximizing weapon damage (boosts power; allowing for railguns to fire with a higher energy output). The N7 Armor set boosts accuracy, melee damage, and increases survivability (increases health, so it's equivalent to having better armor) . Cerberus Ajax Armor boosts melee damage, accuracy, shields, and power efficiency. 'nough said.

 Psienesis wrote:

Mass Effect Wikia wrote: Light armor offers a basic level of protection from enemy attacks and minimizes the movement penalties that affect weapon accuracy. All classes have the ability to use light armor from the start. Adept, Engineer, and Quarian Machinist classes will always be limited to light armor but can increase the effectiveness of armor with the Basic Armor talent. The Asari Scientist and Sentinel classes are limited to light armor and have no talents to improve armor use. Infiltrator, Vanguard, and Turian Agent classes can only use light armor unless they have invested enough points in Tactical Armor to unlock Medium Armor.

Medium armor offers an increased level of protection, but also increases the movement penalties that affect weapon accuracy. The Soldier and Krogan Battlemaster classes have the ability to use medium armor from the start and will rely on it until they have invested enough points in Combat Armor to use Heavy Armor. The Infiltrator, Vanguard, and Turian Agent classes can use medium armor once they have invested enough points in Tactical Armor to unlock it.

Heavy armor offers the highest level of protection from enemy fire, but also has the highest movement penalties affecting weapon accuracy. The Soldier and Krogan Battlemaster classes are the only ones who can gain access to Heavy Armor, but only after acquiring 7 points in Combat Armor.

Heavy armor usually offers best damage protection and shields, but the most basic models offer very low protection against tech and biotic talents. Heavy armors that offer an acceptable amount of this protection are available only later on and are usually hard to find; heavy armor is rarely seen on non-combatants.

That was in Mass Effect 1, in ME 2 and ME 3, there are no armors that decrease accuracy or speed. So, you can either rely upon one video game or two. Your choice. It depends upon your own headcanon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I'd like to reiterate my statement that Space Marine armour would be superior to virtually all ME infantry armors.

You seem to be forgetting that this is a Battlemaster. This isn't an ordinary Krogan. This is a legendary Krogan Biotic, as rare as a psyker among the Black Templars. If he is fighting in a military, he will have the best armor and weapons. If he's acting as a mercenary, he will have great armor and weapons, as his biotics are more powerful than virtually any other species' biotics (except for the most talented), not to mention the fact that their very skin is capable of deflecting low-caliber firearms (note: I didn't say withstand, I said deflect), like a .22 round would bounce off a sheet of steel. He would, quite simply, be more successful than other mercenaries.

Also, don't use game mechanics in a fluff discussion. Just don't. Because a Space Marine Vet would fare even worse than a Krogan Battlemaster (I've slaughtered dozens and dozens of exteremely well-trained and well-equipped Cerberus operatives solo, when playing as a Battlemaster. Whereas, what, 4 poorly-equipped IG can take down an SM Vet?)

Guilliman's blade wrote:
Krogans have several advantages: fast breeding, better plasma, breed to fight from birth, and they are physically powerful. To me, this sounds like intelligent less numerous better tech orks. Remember, astartes also ate bred from children for war. Bit their lives last much longer, their weapons are better than mass effect plasma, and they easily kill even daemons and orks. Not saying this is a stomp, but if take the space marine any day

Krogans live longer than Astartes, actually. And Krogan train from birth, not from adolescence. Also, plasma is a state of matter that is, at the very least (for Hydrogen and similar nonmetals) 100k degrees Kelvin, likely even hotter, so there is not way in hell that Ceramite would be able to withstand it (w/out something like a Rosarius or Storm Shield, at least).

@Psienesis: Saren Arterius was specifically breeding Battlemasters, as he had cured the genophage and was breeding Krogan [literally] 1,000x faster than the rest of the Krogan species could. Which means that he would be able to expose WAY more embryos to eezo, which means that he could (potentially) create thousands of Battlemasters (while also causing the deaths of tens of millions of newborns).

 Psienesis wrote:
Post-ME3, there's not much of a galaxy left, nor time to breed more Krogan Battlemasters, so how one resolves ME3's storyline doesn't actually matter that much.

That is only true if you (quite frankly) suck at the game. The mid-to-good endings have the galaxy rebuilding the Mass Relays and reestablishing the intragalactic community.

 Selym wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Ehm... no they aren't. Nothing in the ME Wikia provides anything about most suits of armor providing boosts to strength

Ariake Technologies produces armor designed to enhance your reflexes and strength for melee combat, including Krogan armor. However, because of the nature of the ME universe, there's really no telling whether or not the Krogan is wearing what kind of armor. If he's wearing Ariake armor, his already impressive, biotically enhanced strength is going to crush a Space Marine to pulp. Serrice Council armor is probably rare amongst Krogans, as Serrice is Asari-run. Still, if they wore that, their biotic powers would be far more powerful. Kassa Fabrication produces armor with especially strong shields; Hanhe-Kedar provides extra power to weapons, Armax Arsenal provides extra ammo capacity and accuracy boosts (it's designed for snipers), Rosenkov Materials provides superior body regulation allowing for faster use of powers and more stamina in general. All of these forego extra armor for these features, however, and each piece (legs, torso, arms, shoulders, headpiece) can be mix-matched to the user's desire.

The descriptions of these add more details. For example, the aformentioned Ariake set:

"Armor with a biofeedback system regulating wearer's adrenaline surges."
"Shoulder plating with microservos that coordinate melee strikes."
"Arm plating with microservos that coordinate melee strikes."
"Leg plating with microservos that coordinate melee attacks."
In-game, this translates extra melee damage, similar to the Hydraulic Joints gear or the Strength Enhancer equipment.

Vs the N7 set:

"Interlocking plates of thick, ablative ceramic. Designed to be light, effective, and easily repaired."
"Curved shell of ablative ceramic over kinetic padding."
"A combination of fabric armor and kinetic padding and plates of ablative ceramic for protection."
"Dual layer of fabric armor and kinetic padding beneath thick plates of ablative ceramic and lined with additional kinetic barrier emitters."
In-game, this translates to extra health.

And Kassa Fabrication:

"Chestplate with micro-capacitors that release energy to speed up shield regeneration."
"Shoulder plating with auxiliary shield emitters."
"Arm plating with auxiliary shield emitters."
"Leg plating with auxiliary shield emitters."
In-game, this translates to faster shields with a higher shield capacity.

Yes, but those are specific models of armor providing specific, tailored boosts (tailored by the manufacturer of said armor) over other, lesser examples of the class. This is like comparing a Ferrari to a Volkswagen. Sure, they're both cars, but one of them is constructed from superior manufacturing processes,superior engineering, and purity of design. The other is a sports car.

You seem to be forgetting that this is a Battlemaster. This isn't an ordinary Krogan. This is a legendary Krogan Biotic, as rare as a psyker among the Black Templars.

Wait, you mean to say they never happen? Then why is this even a point?

Unless you mean that Templars have psykers. WITCH!

I was talking about the curent fluff, not the stuff from their codex.

 chazz huggins wrote:
I say that the Krogan is about equal to a space marine captain with a thunder hammer. I forget what gun this is in mass effect but it is essentially a bolter, so given that they are pretty much identical in these respects I say the Krogan beats the veteran thanks to Biotics and having a shield. The fight may be more even if the vet was in terminator armor and a storm shield.

Striker assault Rifle is what you're thinking of. It's awesome for dealing with Husks.

 Melissia wrote:
Meanwhile you're overselling the marine and underestimating the Krogan.

A big thing to realize in the ME universe is that technology grows quickly. Equipment from ME1 is horribly outdated by the time of ME3. The effectiveness of the equipment makes a huge difference which game you draw from. For example, shields in ME1 were pretty rare, but by the time of ME2, Shields were so common even thugs were using them; by the time of ME3, almost every major armor producer includes shield generators in their armor.

40k's tech is stagnant, but ME's is not. That's why I am using the third game as the real comparison here, as it's most technologically advanced canon technology.

This. Also, plasma is plasma, regardless of what universe it's in. If a Krogan can shrug off a plasma bolt, and Space Marines can't, then that means that the Krogan is utilizing the superior armor. Mass Effect technology (which is shared between species in much the same way as technology is shared between nation-states today) is superior to 40k Imperial technology in virtually every way. You don't have to worry about your plasma weapon overheating and murdering you. Magnetic Accelerator Weapons (aka Guass weapons) are as common as lasguns. Genetic engineering is significantly more common, and far better understood than what is used by the Impeirum. The Imperial Navy is significantly more powerful than even the combined might of every navy in the Mass Effect universe, but that's due more to the size of the ships and the amount of ships than the technology involved in their operation (an Imperial Cruiser is larger than any ME ship, except for, perhaps, a Dreadnought). Of course, I'm comparing the technology that the the Imperium can actually build and maintain, but it also happens to have the occasional relic from the DAoT to feth everything that moves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
EDIT#2: Though, I should note, given the parameters listed in the poll, the Krogan Battlemaster is fighting naked with 3 weapons while the Astartes is in Power Armor with 2 weapons. Given that? The Astartes wins just about every time. Naked Krogan are tough, but not dodge-and-soak-bolters tough.

Naked? What?

 Ashiraya wrote:
Plasma is NOT plasma. The material heated and the degree it is heated to means it has wildly varying effects.

As I have stated previously, plasma, when created by a readily-available, such as Hydrogen, is, at minimum, 100k degrees Kelvin. That is more than 30x the melting point of Tungsten (metal with the highest melting, that we know of).

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

This. Also, plasma is plasma, regardless of what universe it's in.

Within 40K there are different types of plasma. The pulse rifles of the Tau, for instance, utilise plasma but are far less powerful than the hand held plasma weaponry of the Imperium. While plasma guns can penetrate power armour with ease the same can not be said for pulse guns.

You're comparing a thimble's worth of plasma and a bucket's worth of plasma, and expecting them to do the same amount of damage?

 Psienesis wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

This. Also, plasma is plasma, regardless of what universe it's in.

Within 40K there are different types of plasma. The pulse rifles of the Tau, for instance, utilise plasma but are far less powerful than the hand held plasma weaponry of the Imperium. While plasma guns can penetrate power armour with ease the same can not be said for pulse guns.

You're comparing a thimble's worth of plasma and a bucket's worth of plasma, and expecting them to do the same amount of damage?

If plasma is plasma it shouldn't matter, right?

My plasma TV isn't the temperature of a star, though, as it so happens, so it would seem that all plasma is not created equally.

Plasma can be defined as the substance in which blood cells (white and red) are suspended in the blood stream.

Plasma can also be defined as electrically-charged ionized gases. This kind of plasma is used in plasma televisions.

Plasma can also be defined as the fourth state of matter; hotter than gas. This is the kind of plasma that is referred to when talking about plasma weaponry, and is theorized to be found in stars. For a sufficiently volatile and common substance (such as Hydrogen), the Plasma would be a minimum of 10 E 8 degrees Kelvin (100,000,000 degrees K). My initial 100k degrees was off, I mis-translated the 10 E 8.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
And, for both Halo and Mass Effect, the highest difficulty is generally considered "canon" since that is what presents the most challenge.

What? No. That's stupid. I don't even know where you're pulling that out of. Platinum difficulty is most certainly NOT canon.

Seconded.

It makes no sense. The enemies in higher level difficulties down you in a couple of shots, but you must empty entire clips into them.
What does this show? That Mass effect humans are ridiculously weak, or super humanly strong?

Shepard's journey in the Mass Effect series is not meant to be easy. The galaxy is not intended to be fair, the enemies are not intended to be push-overs. That's what makes it an epic, heroic event of legendary proportions.

If you can wade through a score or more of enemies and slaughter them with naught but brief pauses to catch one's breath and allow one's shields to repop, then just about any idiot could accomplish what Shepard accomplishes.

The same is true of Halo, of course. If the Covenant were as stupid and easy as they are on the "medium" levels of gameplay, then Master Chief isn't really needed to do the things he does... or, alternately, the Covenant aren't really that big of a threat, and the game is more a reflection on the results of rampant military spending without regard to national infrastructure.

Wait, what? I've played through the entire series (second-to-last difficulty), and I can easily wade through a dozen enemies (or more). If what you're saying is true, then the devs really suck at accomplishing their intentions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
And a squad of Space Marines topple entire planets with fewer and less-specialized troops.

No, see, if a planet has cutting torches that means their weapons can punch through Astartes armor. The USSR had cutting torches so therefore a Mosin-Nagant can easily penetrate power armor. Thus, even Dimitry could kill the Space Marine veteran.

Way to troll, m8. You gotta love that fallacious reasoning.

This is argument is getting circular...

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Hmm. I'd rate ME weapons as good as a Lasgun if not somewhat better due to their stopping power while Krogan shotguns being somewhere between a human shotgun and a Astartes shotgun. Probably closer to the Astartes shotgun.

Krogan are generally the same size as Space Marines, not to mention the fact that the shotguns manipulate gravity to shoot out thick metal shavings. What makes the Astartes shotgun superior?

 Ashiraya wrote:

That very much depends on your source, actually.

Krogan are 7'.

Odinsgrandson has a thread on Marine heights, and the average of all sources makes Astartes ~ 7'6", and there plenty of sources showing them as 9' or even almost 10'.

Space Marine height is variable, just like human height. You have normal people who are 7'6", just like you have people who are 3'6". Having Astartes who are 11' tall and others who are 7' makes just as much sense, as well. The average Krogan height is 7', but you are almost certain to have specimens who are significantly taller.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Yep, having just checked up with a friend I know who knows a lot more about physics than me, Melissa's "plasma torch" argument is completely bunk. Heat is largely worthless when it comes to the power of plasma weapons. What matters is the actual energy of the weapon, IE joules.

A stupid objection; Heat IS energy.

....No it isn't. As custom said, it's the transfer of energy. Specifically the transfer of energy from a hot object to a "cooler" object.

So you're going to try to claim that something as hot as a cutting torch is not very energetic, now?

Heat is a form of energy, specifically, "a form of energy arising from the random motion of the molecules of bodies, which may be transferred by conduction, convection, or radiation." It is energy, a kind of energy measured in joules, BTUs, and calories.

You're really grasping hard for straws, here.

No, the problem is that you have zero data. Heat tells us nothing without either feats of destruction, speed of the projectile, and its mass/density. Not only does heat not supply the total equation for how powerful an energy weapon is, it only plays a small part when it comes to its total energy content. You could have an object burning at millions upon millions of degrees, but unless it has any significant mass it won't do anything.

Not necessarily true. you heat something up enough, it will burn through virtually anything you throw it at (my old auto-shop teacher once told a story about a quarter-sized hunk of metal that burned straight through concrete and rebar) . But, yes, you are right about heat. Heat = energy no more than acceleration = velocity.