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Who is it? Dante, Bjorn or *gasp* CYPHER?

Abaddon.

Bjorn probably.

Remember that Cypher is a title, not a name. The Cypher of today is not the same Cypher that was around during the Heresy.

Loyalist easily Bjorn by a factor of at least 10 compared to young Dante..

If we include Chaos and other renegades, then those dating back to the Great Crusade would be the same ballpark time-wise. But time flows differently in the Warp so for some or most of those Marines only a few centuries may have passed, while for others entire aeons have gone by. There's just no way of judging their relative age...

Given that caliban was destroyed and the fallen cast into the warp, it most likely is the same cypher as the heresy, most csm special characters are heresy relics.

+1 Abaddon.

It's probably Abbadon.

Or Ahriman, he was recruited on earth before the great Crusade started.

 JamesY wrote:
Given that caliban was destroyed and the fallen cast into the warp, it most likely is the same cypher as the heresy, most csm special characters are heresy relics.

+1 Abaddon.

I believe its been confirmed that its not the same Cypher.

If youre thinking bjorn wouldnt any member of the 13th company be older than him and operating in the eye wether they have experienced the full 10k years has never been explained

 Grey Templar wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
Given that caliban was destroyed and the fallen cast into the warp, it most likely is the same cypher as the heresy, most csm special characters are heresy relics.

+1 Abaddon.

I believe its been confirmed that its not the same Cypher.

Only that it's not the same Cypher throughout the Great Crusade. Whoever was Cypher the day the Lion showed up, pissed, at the Rock is still Cypher. If you believe he's loyal (like I do), he's still probably not as old as Bjorn (although they would have had about the same status, so possibly) and he's definitely not the oldest Chaos marine.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
Given that caliban was destroyed and the fallen cast into the warp, it most likely is the same cypher as the heresy, most csm special characters are heresy relics.

+1 Abaddon.

I believe its been confirmed that its not the same Cypher.

The Cypher dataslate says it is. I haven't read the fluff in the latest da codex though.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Bjorn probably.

Remember that Cypher is a title, not a name. The Cypher of today is not the same Cypher that was around during the Heresy.

We know who Cypher is, it's Zahariel considering that Cypher is supposed to be a powerful psyker and was telling the story of Zahariel's past to a group of Fallen with information only he could know.

Also, oldest Astartes is Ahriman, not Abaddon. Ahriman is from Terra itself and is a first generation Astartes. I think Kharn may be the same age as IIRC he may have been first generation.

Cypher is not Zahariel, he becomes one of the founding grey knights and is featured in the pandorax novel.

 JamesY wrote:
Cypher is not Zahariel, he becomes one of the founding grey knights and is featured in the pandorax novel.

Uh, talk about a logic fail. Zahariel never became a Grey Knight- he was stuck on Caliban until the betrayal and got sucked away into the Warp like all the other Fallen. The Grey Knight in pandorax was talking about how he switched places with Zahariel, who was supposed to be a Grey Knight but he changed fates- that's also what the Lord of Change was going on about.

Kharn also was originally from Terra, so that makes him one of the oldest living Astartes along with Ahriman. Kharn is the older of the two, as he was one of the first recruits in the 12th legion, whereas the Thousand Sons are the 15th legion.

Where has that been said? (genuine question, not sarcasm) last I read of Zah he and cypher were investigating the tunnels beneath caliban. The destruction of Caliban is after the heresy, so the series hasn't gotten that far yet?

Edit it never specified WHO he changed places with, so my logic has hardly failed.

I think that it probably is the same cypher as the one in the heresy as in 'fallen angels' the cypher is aligned with luther thus kheyoss and we can probably safely assume that its the same cypher wich is now the fallen angel as i dont think that there would be enough manpower/equipment to elect a new cypher formally

Are the Primarchs Space Marines?
Cause I think that would be the Lion then.

 darkapostle7 wrote:
I think that it probably is the same cypher as the one in the heresy as in 'fallen angels' the cypher is aligned with luther thus kheyoss and we can probably safely assume that its the same cypher wich is now the fallen angel as i dont think that there would be enough manpower/equipment to elect a new cypher formally

just thought i'd add that

kharn fought in the unification wars on terra...

It is Vulkan, by a landslide.

usmcmidn wrote:
It is Vulkan, by a landslide.

All of the primarchs are the same age, also the primarchs are not Space Marines.

Loyalist would be Bjorn

Bear in mind that time moves at a different pace in the Warp, and Bjorn spends most of his time in a form of suspended animation. In temporal terms, yes, Bjorn and a bunch of CSMs are likely the oldest, but in terms of their actual, physical age and experiences, there's possibly older ones. And I think that's a more interesting question.

Abaddon, Kharn and Ahriman may have served since the Great Crusade, but for all we know, only the equivalent of 500 years may have passed from their perspective.

The oldest verifiable Marine (not ensconded in a Dreadnought) is Dante, at a minimum of 1300 years old, though he's theorised to be possibly even older.

Bjorn was touching 1000 when he was put in a Dreadnought, but although that was 10,000 years ago, he only spent 500 years in active service as one before going into a semi-permanent stasis sleep, where he's only woken for very special ceremonies or dire catastrophes. So his age is tricky to estimate. He's at least 1000, though how much of those subsequent 500 years was he asleep? And how much of the next 10,000 did he see? He's very likely older in that Dante, but it's feasible Dante pips him due to his long bouts of stasis.

Hierophant wrote:

Abaddon, Kharn and Ahriman may have served since the Great Crusade, but for all we know, only the equivalent of 500 years may have passed from their perspective.

It's just as likely 50,000 years have passed. Just because time flows differently, doesn't mean it goes by faster.

The last 10 times this thread has appeared it was revealed Kharn and Ahriman are the contenders, with little solid evidence to put either ahead of the other.

MarsNZ wrote:

Hierophant wrote:

Abaddon, Kharn and Ahriman may have served since the Great Crusade, but for all we know, only the equivalent of 500 years may have passed from their perspective.

It's just as likely 50,000 years have passed. Just because time flows differently, doesn't mean it goes by faster.

I'd argue they'd be physically and psychologically very different if they'd spent 50,000 years in the Warp, so it's much safer to err on the lower end. Dante and Bjorn are both extremely weary of existence after only a millennium and a half. None of the CSMs seem to have that same ennui.

Dante and Bjorn are the only authenticated ones, with it coming down to how much time Bjorn has spent in stasis, and how much older than 1300 Dante is. The CSMs are too unreliable, and even then, show no evidence of any great age in their actions of personalities, having changed very little since the Horus Heresy.

Salamanders found a derelict ship in M41 dating back to the Heresy. On board was a surviving Marine who was basically a pile of bones, but still alive

 Harriticus wrote:
Salamanders found a derelict ship in M41 dating back to the Heresy. On board was a surviving Marine who was basically a pile of bones, but still alive

What novel was this in? I don't read much Salamander stuff so never came across this. Was the book decent or another one author doing what he thought would be cool and not paying attention to exisiting fluff?

Hierophant wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:

Hierophant wrote:

Abaddon, Kharn and Ahriman may have served since the Great Crusade, but for all we know, only the equivalent of 500 years may have passed from their perspective.

It's just as likely 50,000 years have passed. Just because time flows differently, doesn't mean it goes by faster.

I'd argue they'd be physically and psychologically very different if they'd spent 50,000 years in the Warp, so it's much safer to err on the lower end. Dante and Bjorn are both extremely weary of existence after only a millennium and a half. None of the CSMs seem to have that same ennui.

Dante and Bjorn are the only authenticated ones, with it coming down to how much time Bjorn has spent in stasis, and how much older than 1300 Dante is. The CSMs are too unreliable, and even then, show no evidence of any great age in their actions of personalities, having changed very little since the Horus Heresy.

There's a marine in ADB's Night Lords trilogy who judges the Heresy to be 20,000 years ago by his reckoning, the main character says for him it's only been around 200 years. The characters discuss how time flows differently for each individual. Many CSM's are physically very different and psychologically quite insane due to the millenia of exposure to the Warp. Hell, some of them are part daemon now. I'd argue you can't compare ennui between Loyal and Traitor marine as generally Loyal marines receive far more attention in terms of character development (when there's time in between bolters and battleplate discussions).

MarsNZ wrote:

Hierophant wrote:

Abaddon, Kharn and Ahriman may have served since the Great Crusade, but for all we know, only the equivalent of 500 years may have passed from their perspective.

It's just as likely 50,000 years have passed. Just because time flows differently, doesn't mean it goes by faster.

I'd say that it is significantly less likely. The more time they experience the greater the odds that they would die by chance or intent.

How old is Fabius Bile?

The guy looks old as gak and was apart of the Emperor's Children which was Legion number 3.