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So I want your opinion on which of the 3 I should use in a double Demi-company with 6 razorbacks with Las plas/ assault cannons with special/combi tacticals inside and 5 drop pods( 2x double flamer assault squads, 2x 3 grav cannon devastator squads, and a lone ironclad dreadnought)

The Gladius forces Tacticals down your throat. Therefore you might as well make them more durable under Red Scorpions.

I would say white scars are the most competitive.

You have mentioned scout, but hit and run is an incredibly powerful ability.

Generally, if your Tactics buff Tactical Squads, a Gladius gets better for you as you are required to take six squads. So Red Scorpions become really good, as they will have minimum six squads of FNP marines running around. Hopefully Red Scorpions see a rules update so they can do stuff like put their Librarian-dude-who's-name-escapes-me in the Librarius Conclave.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Gladius forces Tacticals down your throat. Therefore you might as well make them more durable under Red Scorpions.

That was kind of the idea I had when I listed them as an option.

The other two were listed to buff/take advantage of all the free transports that the formation gives.

Scout/outflank is great for setting up exactly how you want to before the game begins + hit and run on obsec units is great as well.

And of course having your wall of razorbacks with 5+ invulnerable saves is a pretty scary option as well+ those extra reroll doctrines will help with damage output.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Hopefully Red Scorpions see a rules update so they can do stuff like put their Librarian-dude-who's-name-escapes-me in the Librarius Conclave.

Do you mean Sevrin Loth?

Yes, Sevrin Loth. ML3 who gets to choose his powers, even if they have to be from a limited number of disciplines

White scars. Hell it would be with scout alone but hit& run is stupid good too. It not only keeps your guns firing its protection from getting shot in their turn and it's another free movement phase.

White scars hands down. Hit and run + Scout + skilled rider for the bike command squads (which still can take a razorback legally RAW)

Technically, Vale isn't available to a GSF (though he likely will be when FW gets around to updating their characters).

WS get my vote. Hit and Run is massively annoying when pretty much all your infantry is ObSec. Scouting RBacks is just gravy on top.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
So I want your opinion on which of the 3 I should use in a double Demi-company with 6 razorbacks with Las plas/ assault cannons with special/combi tacticals inside and 5 drop pods( 2x double flamer assault squads, 2x 3 grav cannon devastator squads, and a lone ironclad dreadnought)

I see everyone is saying WS, but for the units you want to use. It would not be the most beneficial to your army. Yes scout can be good for everything, but you are still can only us that at the beginning of game. You are not always going to want to scout. Personally, picking one that can last through the whole game can really make it good.

Top 5
Iron hands (you have 14 vehicles that would gain it will not die and feel no pain 6+ for troops)
Ultramarine (you are going to have a lot of boots on the ground. Buffing them would help)
Imperial Fist (Bolter Drill would buff everyone one of your units.)
Salamanders (you have special weapons/combi-weapon. So take He'Sten and in your tactical squads meltagun/combi-flamer. Give the Sgt a special melee weapon and master craft it.)
The Raptors (you get Raven guard chapter tactics. Plus if you stand still you get rending with all your bolters, combi-weapons firing bolter and bolt pistols. Doesn't sound like much, but when you combine this with the tactical docs from the demi-companies. We are now talking TL and Rending.)

If you're planning on going Razorback/Rhino spam for your GSF, then Vale actually seems like a really nice choice. You're mitigating the MSU weakness of having easily killed units by giving them that 5+ save. On top of that, you're getting a double set of Ultramarines doctrines, which is fantastic for the GSF. I congratulate you on your ingenuity in thinking of Vale, I hadn't thought to look at the Badab characters for the GSF yet.

 Homeskillet wrote:
If you're planning on going Razorback/Rhino spam for your GSF, then Vale actually seems like a really nice choice. You're mitigating the MSU weakness of having easily killed units by giving them that 5+ save. On top of that, you're getting a double set of Ultramarines doctrines, which is fantastic for the GSF. I congratulate you on your ingenuity in thinking of Vale, I hadn't thought to look at the Badab characters for the GSF yet.

I like him because he is very much a buff-mander in every sense of the word instead of just being a beat-stick like most captains and chapter masters.

His warlord trait lets him give rending to any unit within 12", he gives tank hunter and bs 5 to whatever vehicle is transporting him, and he gives those sweet 5+ invul saves to everybody's transports. The fact that you get 3 extra doctrines is just icing on the cake.

 Glitcha wrote:

Iron hands (you have 14 vehicles that would gain it will not die and feel no pain 6+ for troops)

Only Dreadnoughts get IWND.

Rhinos, Razorbacks, Drop Pods etc. don't.

 vipoid wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:

Iron hands (you have 14 vehicles that would gain it will not die and feel no pain 6+ for troops)

Only Dreadnoughts get IWND.

Rhinos, Razorbacks, Drop Pods etc. don't.

Yep. They changed it from what it was in 6th. I guess it was GWs attempt to stop people from getting free IWND on Warhounds and other big stuff taken as an Iron Hands LOW.

How about instead of trying to squeeze more cheeze out of the list, you play the army who's fluff and look you like most. Gladius is already auto win in objective missions if you have 2 brain cells. My friend at our local store has not lost one single time with his drop pod gladius force in objective games. Even eldar scat spam couldn't blast enough things off the board by turn 7 in the last tourney.

 Orock wrote:
How about instead of trying to squeeze more cheeze out of the list, you play the army who's fluff and look you like most. Gladius is already auto win in objective missions if you have 2 brain cells. My friend at our local store has not lost one single time with his drop pod gladius force in objective games. Even eldar scat spam couldn't blast enough things off the board by turn 7 in the last tourney.

I play a homebrew chapter with my own paint scheme and made up fluff so that doesn't apply as much to me. I change which chapter tactics and characters I'm using all the time to give variety to my games.

Telling me to tone down the cheese is not really the response I'm looking for. I always tell people ahead of time what I'm bringing and I don't mind if people list-tailor to beat me. I'm trying to be competitive yet creative, and I am really leaning towards Vale as the idea of a tank-buffmander is looking really cool for me( although you guys are propably correct in saying its better to go with Kahn, and command squad bikers for support)

 Orock wrote:
How about instead of trying to squeeze more cheeze out of the list, you play the army who's fluff and look you like most. Gladius is already auto win in objective missions if you have 2 brain cells. My friend at our local store has not lost one single time with his drop pod gladius force in objective games. Even eldar scat spam couldn't blast enough things off the board by turn 7 in the last tourney.

I nominate this post as the most useless of 2015.

Until Vale is FAQ'd though, I would say Red Scorpions for making those forced Tacticals a lot better.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Orock wrote:
How about instead of trying to squeeze more cheeze out of the list, you play the army who's fluff and look you like most. Gladius is already auto win in objective missions if you have 2 brain cells. My friend at our local store has not lost one single time with his drop pod gladius force in objective games. Even eldar scat spam couldn't blast enough things off the board by turn 7 in the last tourney.

I nominate this post as the most useless of 2015.

Until Vale is FAQ'd though, I would say Red Scorpions for making those forced Tacticals a lot better.

Hardly. Some people genuinely don't know the list or haven't played against it. Telling them they would have an uphill battle on an objectives game is far more useful than say...trolling someone's post and proclaiming most useless post. That sounds more like a winner to me.

As for the other question. If you just want to change it up every once in a while for fun and experience, try sentinels of Terra.

 Orock wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Orock wrote:
How about instead of trying to squeeze more cheeze out of the list, you play the army who's fluff and look you like most. Gladius is already auto win in objective missions if you have 2 brain cells. My friend at our local store has not lost one single time with his drop pod gladius force in objective games. Even eldar scat spam couldn't blast enough things off the board by turn 7 in the last tourney.

I nominate this post as the most useless of 2015.

Until Vale is FAQ'd though, I would say Red Scorpions for making those forced Tacticals a lot better.

Hardly. Some people genuinely don't know the list or haven't played against it. Telling them they would have an uphill battle on an objectives game is far more useful than say...trolling someone's post and proclaiming most useless post. That sounds more like a winner to me.

As for the other question. If you just want to change it up every once in a while for fun and experience, try sentinels of Terra.

No, DoomShakaLaka had it right, your post had little by way of tactical advice. Calling someone cheesy in the tactics thread is silly; it's pretty poor tactics to hamstring yourself in a game because some bit of fluff in one of the thousand 40k books doesn't jive just right for your satisfaction. Get over yourself. Yes, GSF is powerful in objective-based missions; how many kill point missions has the local "cheesemonger" won with that same list? This is why tournaments very typically mix up the mission types.

He has lost two games with it. Both to necrons in kill points, but that involved a guy who would show up with a "take all comers" necrons list. He actually has 10+ lists he has tailored to every common matchup there, and just pulls out the counter list. He was finally called out when he played someone who was going second and told him he was playing marines. When it was his turn to set up he proclaed he left his marines home on accident and pulled out nids. Needless to say the lists play very different and he was not ready.

But that wasent the point. The point is gladius is very powerful without having to tailor for any chapter tactics, and to select what you like more. Just like necrons are still top tier without recursion. Adding it for friendly games is often unnecessary, especially against early codex.

IMO army wide hit and run is more important than the other possible tactics. I've had people try to hide good units in combat against my battleco several times, and hit and run has been crazy good in those situations. Even benefitting from it once in a game is usually worth it.

(As an example I had an opponent wisely try to hide his seer council from culexus debuffing followed by shooting by getting locked with a dreadnought that he could barely hurt (and didn't.) The dread simply walked away after the combat, and what he was fearing ended up happening. His tactic would've been awesome against any other chapter tactic.)

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:

Iron hands (you have 14 vehicles that would gain it will not die and feel no pain 6+ for troops)

Only Dreadnoughts get IWND.

Rhinos, Razorbacks, Drop Pods etc. don't.

Yep. They changed it from what it was in 6th. I guess it was GWs attempt to stop people from getting free IWND on Warhounds and other big stuff taken as an Iron Hands LOW.

Ah my bad. Thought they still got it. Still think another chapter tactic would be better than WS. Red scorpions is not a bad choice, but if you do chose it, better have the your sgt's modeled correctly. Their chapter tactic specifically calls for the sgt to have the arm of the apothecary in order to get the Feel no pain. Some RAW players might call you out on it. I've seen it done at an event.

Out of interest, what's the general opinion of Iron Hands?

Does it need a specific list (e.g. lots of vehicles to repair, lots of characters for IWND), or is it good in most lists?

 niv-mizzet wrote:
IMO army wide hit and run is more important than the other possible tactics. I've had people try to hide good units in combat against my battleco several times, and hit and run has been crazy good in those situations. Even benefitting from it once in a game is usually worth it.

(As an example I had an opponent wisely try to hide his seer council from culexus debuffing followed by shooting by getting locked with a dreadnought that he could barely hurt (and didn't.) The dread simply walked away after the combat, and what he was fearing ended up happening. His tactic would've been awesome against any other chapter tactic.)

Ya things like this come up all the time with WS. Not to mention long board deployment or the option to outflank or just getting your tlac spam into range (or on objectives) early. I don't see another CT coming close to this power level except in very specific lists.

Iron hands librarius conclave can do fun things. 3+ FNP/IWND from biomancy on top of a 3+ storm shield biker command squad along with a smashfeather can be mean.

For the whitescars, I'm not sure why you'd go that route instead of ravenwing? I know this is for a gladius, but if you're going to take bikes, why not make them good bikes.

This is actually why I voted other; I think going first legion is the way. Obsec, overwatch at BS 4, and the glory which is the ravenwing.

Can someone elaborate why hit and run tacticals are at all good? As has been stated, you're taking buckets of bolter boys, so might as well get the most you can out of them. I'm a fan of smurfs if for nothing other than rerolling special weapons.

RE: free pods
Why is this the worry? If I had a guy taking pods as his gladius transport, I'd be loving it. At 35 points a pop, you're really getting less out of them than out of a 55 point razor back, or even a 35 point rhino, thanks to the alpha strike protection.

Ether wrote:
Iron hands librarius conclave can do fun things. 3+ FNP/IWND from biomancy on top of a 3+ storm shield biker command squad along with a smashfeather can be mean.

For the whitescars, I'm not sure why you'd go that route instead of ravenwing? I know this is for a gladius, but if you're going to take bikes, why not make them good bikes.

This is actually why I voted other; I think going first legion is the way. Obsec, overwatch at BS 4, and the glory which is the ravenwing.

Can someone elaborate why hit and run tacticals are at all good? As has been stated, you're taking buckets of bolter boys, so might as well get the most you can out of them. I'm a fan of smurfs if for nothing other than rerolling special weapons.

RE: free pods
Why is this the worry? If I had a guy taking pods as his gladius transport, I'd be loving it. At 35 points a pop, you're really getting less out of them than out of a 55 point razor back, or even a 35 point rhino, thanks to the alpha strike protection.

My list is a mix between drop pod spam and razorback spam. 6 Razorbacks+ 5 Drop Pods seems to be pretty good for having sufficient board presence + alpha strike. Does the Ravenwing Gladius get to use the UM doctrines? If they do then that could be a pretty good choice, otherwise I don't want to drop the free turn of twin-linked grav cannons for when I pod them in against MCs.

Also I was originally going to run the AA formation, but since you mentioned bikes would it be better to run MSU scout bikers with grenade launchers with the 10th company formation?

Can someone elaborate why hit and run tacticals are at all good? As has been stated, you're taking buckets of bolter boys, so might as well get the most you can out of them. I'm a fan of smurfs if for nothing other than rerolling special weapons.

Like I said above its essentially a free movement phase. You need to be somewhere? Assault that shooty unit regardless of whether you can kill them.. then bounce out 3d6 towards that objective (on THEIR turn) then move again. Someone trying to tarpit you? Disengage 3d6, now its your turn move and fire. Its the stuff deathstars dream of and even splash into another army just to get the ability. Its that good.