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Okay, I can count myself as being the negative type with 40k.
BUT I have a ton of the models and books so have joy left in me for what is 40k, not so much the 7th edition rules.
I largely play with my friends and we have been springing some of the weirder rules on each other so we need some kind of armistice.

I pose to you all: What is a favorite list or even a single house rule or tournament rule / list that contributes some "balance" to the game? (or more sanity)

I do not want to "fix" the game so much (negativity in me is thinking it is not possible), just to tweak to enjoy it more!
Strategy, variety, combined arms, objectives... I want to be more general and less random number generator.
I will appreciate links to your favorites in the "proposed rules" and PLEASE explain why, the intent is important as well as the rule wording.
If we do not give this an honest effort I will crack open my original Necromunda boxes and hide in 40k gang warfare.

I would start with not allowing other units/characters to join another unit/character from a different army/codex as well as cannot apply their special abilities to other units that are not part of their codex.

P.S. I know, use 5th edition and update... yeah will go dig that BRB out right now...

Best house rule? Use other rulesets or earlier editions.

Serious answer:

-When in doubt, roll off

I would like to make charges a little more strategic.

Overwatch used either as focused fire against one charging unit in its current form, or spread between all charging units to do no damage but reduce all charge rolls by 3 inches.

Charging units to receive +1 attack per model if the enemy unit being charged was fired at by more than two units that turn.

Victorious assault units can charge immediately into CC after winning an assault phase but fight at i1 and fight as if they were making a disordered charge, with no furious charge abilities.

Return wound allocation back to the controlling player. That should shave off 20-30 minutes off your game.

-Invisibility drops BS and WS to 1.
-Rerollable 2+ saves are 2+/4+
-Blast are fired at a floor level in ruins. (you can't hit a model on the 1st floor and the 5th floor of a ruins with the same blast)
-Ruins and Forest are area terrain for infantry. Only time you don't get cover from being in area terrain is if the enemy shooting at your unit is also in the same piece of area terrain. You do get cover in a shared area cover situation if there is actual physical objects providing 25% cover to your models.
-Maelstrom objectives that are impossible to achieve due to lack of valid targets in the game are discarded and new ones drawn. (no psykers left alive in the game, draws kill a psyker)
-Objectives cards that score D3 are just 2 points.

Invisibility grants a -1 to hit modifier. Not a fixed value. It's just stupid.

Improve all warp-harness checks to 3+. There's practically no point in taking a Psyker, otherwise. They should be fun to play, not just a waste of 5 minutes per player turn while you do nothing.

Treat all allies as allies of convenience. Or no allies at all. The whole "Forge the Narrative" can eat a turd.

Where possible, play games between 1000 and 2000 points.

Alter the core rules such that objectives are placed AFTER deployment zones are determined. This allows for "defensive" style armies to play Eternal War Missions, and helps to offset the incredible movement advantage that certain... pointy eared... armies have. It also increases the value of fortifications, which my meta has completely abandoned as you can't "guarantee" a stronghold to guard.

Alter Maelstrom to allow a player to draw "X" number of objectives per draw, and then select which objective to keep. You can get boned, but you will usually draw something that you can achieve. 2 helps to balance, 3 starts to feel like a more cohesive game. As in, you're more likely to draw objectives that you already possess, and you're more likely to draw cards that say "kill something" that makes sense. Alter all random values to become a reasonable set value. IE: d3 = 2. d3+3 = 4, that sort of thing.

Enact a Gentleman's agreement, no more than "X" super heavies unless prior agreement. For example, I don't mind facing a pair of Knights at 1850 points, but more than that isn't fun. For either player, my Knight-wielding friend was surprised to discover. We're both having more fun with one or two knights max. He's mostly moved away from Knights, to be honest.

D-Weapons deserve a "let's talk about it and see what we all agree on" talk. Same with Stomps. Can you look out Sir a "6" on the stomp table? We said yes.

No Allies
No Lords of War
No Super Heavies
No Gargantuan Creatures
No Fortifications other than Aegis Defense Line
No ForgeWorld rules
No Apocalypse formations
No more than two CAD/detachments/formations/auxiliary

Or more simply known as the "No bs" rule.

So... No FW rules...

A lot of FW stuff is more balanced than the 40k stuff.

 Selym wrote:
So... No FW rules...

A lot of FW stuff is more balanced than the 40k stuff.

Yes, but if you allow some of it, you must allow all of it. For every faction it helps, it breaks the game for another.

 Arkaine wrote:

 Selym wrote:
So... No FW rules...

A lot of FW stuff is more balanced than the 40k stuff.

Yes, but if you allow some of it, you must allow all of it. For every faction it helps, it breaks the game for another.

By that logic we really shouldn't play 40k at all because Eldar exist.

As for house rules -
- choose warlord traits
- choose psychic powers
- charge is 6+D6 inches
- maybe even choose when reserves come on.

this +1
choose when reserves should come at the beginning of the game

remove most random dice roles (traits, powers, movement)

Me and some guys from Germany worked a year ago on small tweaks for 40k, but skipped it because no one was interested in (seems like 40k is perfect as it is....).

Some ideas were to streamline the rules (remove not necessary differences between walkers, tanks, monstrous creatures), remove random roles and take the wound allocation from starship troopers (very complicated written down but much faster in game).
Than there was the idea to remove additional saves and rerolls and rework the armour system (tanks should be wounded like everything else to avoid not necessary differences of "to wound")


PS:
The other question is, is there a 40k community out there which want to be ready and has a working LRB, if 40k makes the "AoS"?

TheCustomLime wrote:Return wound allocation back to the controlling player. That should shave off 20-30 minutes off your game.

Amen!

greatbigtree wrote:Invisibility grants a -1 to hit modifier. Not a fixed value. It's just stupid.

I might argue that a bit... invisible to me is... invisible.
Unless we are willing to argue varying degrees of invisible.

Improve all warp-harness checks to 3+. There's practically no point in taking a Psyker, otherwise. They should be fun to play, not just a waste of 5 minutes per player turn while you do nothing.

I would have to try that out, don't want that to lend too much advantage.

Treat all allies as allies of convenience. Or no allies at all. The whole "Forge the Narrative" can eat a turd.

Amen!

Where possible, play games between 1000 and 2000 points.

I agree there can be a "sweet-spot" for game size to the rules, I would prefer to not need this.

Alter the core rules such that objectives are placed AFTER deployment zones are determined. This allows for "defensive" style armies to play Eternal War Missions, and helps to offset the incredible movement advantage that certain... pointy eared... armies have. It also increases the value of fortifications, which my meta has completely abandoned as you can't "guarantee" a stronghold to guard.

I agree to the principle of it but to not be guaranteed to get that "perfectly" placed objective I feel is rather the point. It is for this very reason I like a good variety of models to deal with these situations.

Alter Maelstrom to allow a player to draw "X" number of objectives per draw, and then select which objective to keep. You can get boned, but you will usually draw something that you can achieve. 2 helps to balance, 3 starts to feel like a more cohesive game. As in, you're more likely to draw objectives that you already possess, and you're more likely to draw cards that say "kill something" that makes sense. Alter all random values to become a reasonable set value. IE: d3 = 2. d3+3 = 4, that sort of thing.

Sounds agreeable.

Enact a Gentleman's agreement, no more than "X" super heavies unless prior agreement. For example, I don't mind facing a pair of Knights at 1850 points, but more than that isn't fun. For either player, my Knight-wielding friend was surprised to discover. We're both having more fun with one or two knights max. He's mostly moved away from Knights, to be honest.

It is a bit like showing up with a knife to a gun fight.
Unsure on this rule specifically but understand the circumstances.
My Shadowsword tended to enjoy those encounters.
Maybe that super-heavies cannot be more than X% of the army points?
I know Imperial Knight armies would have an issue with it but it sucks to play a game with/against 3-4 odd models.

D-Weapons deserve a "let's talk about it and see what we all agree on" talk. Same with Stomps. Can you look out Sir a "6" on the stomp table? We said yes.

I agree with the look out sir (boy did that bodyguard give his all!)

kodos wrote:this +1
choose when reserves should come at the beginning of the game

Oh yeah, I would agree completely unless they MUST deepstrike like daemons then some randomness is needed.

remove most random dice roles (traits, powers, movement)

I would agree with this more with the psycher abilities, warlord traits and assault distances.

Me and some guys from Germany worked a year ago on small tweaks for 40k, but skipped it because no one was interested in (seems like 40k is perfect as it is....).

My eyes! they bleed! Perfect... hence why this post: to make the most of an irritating situation.

Some ideas were to streamline the rules (remove not necessary differences between walkers, tanks, monstrous creatures),

Agreed, hard outside, insides that are more squishy and reduce function

remove random roles and take the wound allocation from starship troopers (very complicated written down but much faster in game).

Will go look that up, not familiar with it.

Than there was the idea to remove additional saves and rerolls and rework the armour system (tanks should be wounded like everything else to avoid not necessary differences of "to wound")

I guess it boils down to: do you want the thing to have decreasing capability as it gets damaged or still be 100% good when down to it's last hit-point/wound?
I like the opportunity of giving the opponent the joy of possibly knocking out a critical weapon or immobilizing the model.

P.S:
The other question is, is there a 40k community out there which want to be ready and has a working LRB, if 40k makes the "AoS"?

Well I felt good work was done with Epic 40k.
Plus, I am looking at this as a means of recovery or we may try to go with Mantic's Maelstrom.

Thanks all!

I am looking at multiple games at the moment but I am also considering of continuing my work with the fan-made 40k (we called it M41 to avoid copyright problems).

If the game gets the AoS treatment, the alternative rules should be already finished (so now would be a good time to start again.)

I guess it boils down to: do you want the thing to have decreasing capability as it gets damaged or still be 100% good when down to it's last hit-point/wound?

Yes
we made a generic table for all big things no matter if it was a walker, robot or gargantuan creature.
Because there is no reason why you can knock out a dreadnought or sentinel weapon but not those of a Riptide or Wraith Knight.

 kodos wrote:
I am looking at multiple games at the moment but I am also considering of continuing my work with the fan-made 40k (we called it M41 to avoid copyright problems).

If the game gets the AoS treatment, the alternative rules should be already finished (so now would be a good time to start again.)

I guess it boils down to: do you want the thing to have decreasing capability as it gets damaged or still be 100% good when down to it's last hit-point/wound?

Yes
we made a generic table for all big things no matter if it was a walker, robot or gargantuan creature.
Because there is no reason why you can knock out a dreadnought or sentinel weapon but not those of a Riptide or Wraith Knight.

I agree. 40k should (but probably never will) go the way of D&D 5e - that is, become more simplistic, and by extension more fun. While yes, in the past I have memorized the tables and rules, I don't have the time or energy to do so anymore. It needs to become more simplistic.

More simplistic and change to alternate unit activation or action/reaction system

a complete rewrite from scratch instead of just adding and changing stuff would help, but GW will never do that

 kodos wrote:
a complete rewrite from scratch instead of just adding and changing stuff would help, but GW will never do that

AoS.

 McNinja wrote:

As for house rules -
- choose warlord traits
- choose psychic powers
- charge is 6+D6 inches
- maybe even choose when reserves come on.

YES! This is by far my biggest issue with 40k. The game is meant to be one of strategy and tactics and yet all too often things come down to chance. I believe these house rules alone would drastically change 40k for the better, allowing for much more strategic planning and less wasting time rolling dice pre-game.

6+D6 charge would be so much better than what we have now. it would make assaulting more tactical, rather than blindly chucking dice and praying for sixes.

Ah! We had touched on the problem of whomever goes first "wins". More of a core mechanic issue though: unit activation vs army activation would smooth out that all or nothing first turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Selym wrote:
6+D6 charge would be so much better than what we have now. it would make assaulting more tactical, rather than blindly chucking dice and praying for sixes.

Agreed, some minimum distance you can count on would make this much better. You could still gamble and hope for more for those so inclined: win-win.

Alpha Strike is also a homemade problem which can be solved if enough LOS blocking terrain is used

Posted these in the big thread of houserules, gonna add them here too.
Houserules and Errata

General
• A roll of 6 on the Destroyer table does d3+3 hull points or wounds instead of d6+6. Saves may not be taken.
o Destroyer weapons do not roll on the vehicle damage chart in addition to the Destroyer table against non superheavy vehicles.
• Beasts may embark on the transports normally, but may not move more than 6” when disembarking.
• Any model that is a character in a unit receives 1 additional wound as well as any other benefits, to a max of 3W. Codex Eldar, Skitarii, and Harlequins do not gain this benefit.
• Custom units created with the V.D.R. may be used, but the stats should be run by your opponent and Tony beforehand for approval.
• Custom H.Q. character rules will no longer be used. With the advent of Relics, the need for rules to make special characters is obsolete.
• Storm bolters may be fired as a heavy 3 weapon instead of assault 2. The heavy 3 option may not be used for snapshots.
• Monstrous Creatures only get cover if 25% obscured or more.
• All missile launchers gain their flakk equivalent upgrade for free if available.
• Stealth: Models that target units with the stealth usr with ranged attacks take a -1 penalty to their Ballistic skill. This replaces the normal benefit.
• Shrouded: Models that target units with the shrouded usr with ranged attacks take a -2 penalty to their Ballistics skill. This replaces the normal benefit.
• Smoke launchers may be used when the unit equipped with it is targeted. This replaces the normal benefit
• Ignores Cover: Units with this special rule don’t take the B.S. penalty for firing at units with the stealth or shrouded special rules. This is in addition to the normal benefit.
• Models with the relentless and slow and purposeful rules as well as all vehicles do not ignore the range penalty for moving and firing weapons with the salvo special rule
• Any unit attacking a unit under the benefit of the “invisibility” psychic power are treated as having failed a blind test, even if they would normally be immune. This is instead of the normal benefit.
• Psyckers in a unit are treated as independent models for the purposes of casting powers and generating warp charges
• Flying monstrous creatures that arrive via deepstrike may choose to be swooping or gliding when they arrive.
• Vehicles with the “heavy” type ignore the penalties for firing ordinance weapons
• Walkers may add 2 to the maximum unit size listed in their entries unless they are unique units. All walkers may add 1 to their attack profile. Codexes released from the necron codex and after do not gain this benefit.
• Poison and sniper weapons take no penalty to wounding gargantuan creatures
• Weapons with the “primary” special rule ignore a weapon destroyed result inflicted against them on a 4+
• Super heavy walkers and gargantuan monstrous creatures that use the “smash” ability to trade their attacks for a single attack treat that single attack as strength D instead of the normal benefits
• Superheavy vehicles take damage from the vehicle damage table with the following changes
o Ignore the crew shaken and crew stunned result
o Immobilized results lower their speed by half. Multiple immobilized results do not lower this further, but do add the extra hullpoint loss as normal

Chaos Space Marines
• Aspiring champions and Aspiring Sorcerers can take terminator armor for 15 points.
• When a character from the army accepts a challenge, toll on the Chaos Boon Table immediately (instead of afterward) if the character is fighting in a challenge with a unique character, add +1 to the tens dice for determining the Boon (max of 6).
• If your Warlord is an HQ or Lord of War and has purchased a mark from the Chaos Gods, then a single troop unit from this Codex gains the same mark for free. This troop may not have more than one mark, and if the warlord has multiple marks the player chooses which is given before deployment.
• Kombibolters also count as a close combat weapon.
• Rhinos may take assault ramps as an upgrade for 10 points. This makes them assault vehicles
• Helldrakes have a 90 degree firing arc.
• Abbadon is a Lord of War.
• Rhinos may be selected as a fast attack choice.
• If a character becomes a Daemon Prince via the Dark Apotheosis it retains any wargear options that the Demon Prince could have chosen.
• If a model with daemonic possession would consume a vehicle it is transporting, that vehicle suffers a glancing hit instead.
• Ahriman may take powers from the divination school
• Use the basic stat line for rhino based tanks you already have access to from the codex spacemarine book. Your optional upgrades remain the same.
• Hellbrutes may be fielded in units of up to 3
• All units that begin the game in terminator armor have their points reduced by 5 each

Chaos Daemons
• If your entire army is composed of daemons with the same Daemonic alignment you may treat a roll of 7 on the warpstorm as the attack power associated with your god.
• Fateweaver is a Lord of War.

Eldar
• Eldar jetbikes only give a 4+ armor save
• Scatterlasers cost 5 points more than shuriken cannons wherever they may be chosen as an upgrade.
• The Wraithnight is 395 points
• Warp Spiders may only use their flicker jump special rules once per player turn and may not use it against overwatch.
• The warlock conclave does not generate warp charges based on its mastery level.
• The guardian battlehost and guardian stormhost formations are both able to use storm guardians and guardian defenders for their requisite guardian slots.

Dark Eldar
• Hellions can use their jump packs in the movement and assault phase.
• Wyches get their agile invulnerable save during the assault phase, not just the combat sub phase.
• Units equipped with combat drugs count the turn as being one higher on the power from pain table
• Named characters from the 5th edition codex may be used for the point totals listed with the following changes.
o Asdrubael Vect: has the labyrinthine cunning warlord trait and an additional roll on any warlord trait table in the BRB
o Lady Malys: roll twice on the warlord trait table in the dark elder codex
o Duke Ssliscus: has the towering arrogance warlord trait. He also grants a reroll for scatter for any venom, raider, or ravager that enters play from deepstrike reserves
o Baron Sarthonix: has the soul thirst warlord trait and doesn’t change the position of hellions in the force organization chart

Tyranids
• Tyranid prime has an additional wound and may take wings (changing its type to jump infantry) for 10 points.
• Models that have the instinctive behavior rule that are within Range of a synapse creature gain a +1 to feel no pain (6+ feel no pain if they did not already have the rule)
• The Swarmlord is a Lord of War and grants the swarmleader benefit to all models within 18”
• Gene stealers have stealth.
• Shadows in the warp cause all enemy psykers to manifest psychic powers at a -1 penalty (normally 5+) in addition to the penalty to Leadership.
• Monstrous biocannons have their point costs changed to the following: twinlinked devourer with brainleach worms 25 points. Twin linked deathspitter, same. Stranglethorn cannon, 10 points. Heavy venom cannon, 15 points
• Hive tyrants poiunt total raises to 185 points
• Old one eye is now 140 points
• Tervigon becomes 155 points
• Haruspex becomes 120 points
• Harpy becomes150 points
• Hive crone stays the same
• Carnifex becomes 86 points
• Trygon becomes 170
• Trygon prime becomes205 points
• Mawlock becomes 140 points
• Exocrine becomes 105 points
• Tyrannofex becomes 105 points and the upgrade to rupture cannon only costs 5 points
• Pyrovores breath weapon gains the torrent special rule

Adepta Sorroritas
• Saint Celestine is a Lord of War.
• Canoness is 5 points cheaper.
• Sisters Repentia gain Crusader.
• The Rhino and Immolator may be selected as fast attack options.
• The penitent engine has hatred.
• The exorcist fires snapshots at BS2 and may be fielded in units of 1-3

Astra Militarum
• Commisar Yarick is a Lord of War.
• Basilisk: 85 points
• Leman russ eradicator: 145 points
• Leman russ vanquisher: 145 points
• Hellhound: 90 points
• Devildog: 85 points
• Banewolf: 95 points
• Chimera, Taurox and Taurox Primes may be selected as fast attack choices.
• When a conscript unit is removed as a casualty, an identical unit goes into ongoing reserve on a 4+.
• The taurox prime has the command vehicle trait
• Rough riders have an additional wound each
• Vox casters give the following benefit: if a command squad and the target of an order it is issuing are both equipped with vox casters, add 12 inches to the maximum command range and the units do not require line of sight
• Tempestas scion units have one higher leadership

Militarum Tempestas
• Any unit embarked in a flyer chosen from this detachment, and any units placed in deep strike reserves may begin arriving from reserves starting in turn one. They must be rolled for normally.
• Gain all the relevant bonuses listed above

Orks
• Cybork body gives a +1 to feel no pain rolls (or a 6+ feel no pain, if the model doesn’t already have feel no pain).
• The Gorkanaught and Morkanaught become superheavy walkers with 6 hull points.
• Kustom Megadreds from Forgeworld have 4 hull points instead of 3.
• Lootas may take a looted wagon as a dedicated transport.
• Boss nobz are Ld8 instead of 7
• Battlewagons are 90 points, looted wagons and trukks are 25 points.
• All non superheavy walkers that don’t have the “cowardly grots” rule gain “ ‘ere we go!” rule
• Stompa becomes 745 points

Spacewolves, blood angels, and grey knights
• Use the basic stat line for rhino based tanks you already have access to from the codex spacemarine book. Your optional upgrades remain the same. Baal predators gain the same squadron size and benefit as predators and may be fielded in units of up to 3.
• Spacewolf dreadnaughts gain counter attack. Blood angel dreadnaughts gain furious charge.
• All units that begin the game in terminator armor have their points reduced by 5 each
• Blood angel scouts use the stat line and point values from codex spacemarine
• Wolfscouts gain stealth

Necrons
• The canoptic harvest formation gives feel no pain instead of reanimation protocols
• Necron wraiths are toughness 4

Escalation (adjustments for balance)
• Baneblade: 485 points
• Banehammer: 348 points
• Banesword: 420 points
• Doomhammer: 395 points
• Hellhammer:530 points
• Shadowsword: 365
• Stormlord: 470
• Stormsword: 475
• Thunderhawk gunship: 588
• Khorne Lord of Skulls: add gaze of pain (24’ S10 ap1 heavy 2) init 4, and 3 hullpoints
• Gargantuan squigoth: 390 points
• Phantom titan: 1050 points and may add phantom pulsars (424 each) phantom D-cannon (330 each), or the phantom ccw (170)
• Revenant titan: 950 points
• Barbed hierodule: 477 points
• Harridan: 644 points
• Hierophant biotitan: the titanfield becomes a 3+ invul save
• Transcendent Ctan: use statline from apocalypse, ignore powers printed in apocalypse; use the greater power of the C’tan list from codex Necrons. Price for unit is 475 points


What do you guys think?

Simple one, from a previous edition, when rolling to scatter the result is capped at half the distance fired for weapons - so if you fire at a target 12" away the maximum scatter is 6".

Stops shells landing behind the firing unit.

Also if a shot scatters to where you couldn't have actually placed it, say behind a building, the shot hits whatever was in the way.

Would also use the FoW rules, slightly adapted, for hit allocation - and specifically allocate hits not wounds

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Posted these in the big thread of houserules, gonna add them here too.
Houserules and Errata
<snip>
What do you guys think?

Awesome?!
Will sit back and read more carefully shortly...
Thanks!

No maelstrom missions.

All allies count as "allies of convenience", and special abilities do not apply to models from other detachments under any circumstances.

Superheavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures are limited to one model per army, and can be no more than 33% of the total points for the game.

Each army must take one CAD (or faction-specific CAD equivalent) with no LoW slot, and may take 0-1 LoW OR allied detachment OR formation which may cost up to 33% of the total points for the game.

When playing maelstrom missions, if you generate an objective that you could not have completed at the start of the game (for example, kill a vehicle when your opponent does not bring any vehicles; or control every objective when you only brought 3 units) you may immediately discard the objective and draw a new one.

 Happyjew wrote:
When playing maelstrom missions, if you generate an objective that you could not have completed at the start of the game (for example, kill a vehicle when your opponent does not bring any vehicles; or control every objective when you only brought 3 units) you may immediately discard the objective and draw a new one.

This is the right idea, but it should be checked when you draw the card, not at the beginning of the game. Let's say my opponent brought one vehicle, I killed it on the first turn, and on the third turn I draw "destroy a vehicle". Under your rule I'm punished for killing it too soon instead of letting it live just in case I need it for an objective.

That would be the tactical part of it. Is it worth it to kill the vehicle now, or can it wait till later? Also, that is only a 1/36 chance to happen anyway so you're really playing the odds on that one.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
That would be the tactical part of it. Is it worth it to kill the vehicle now, or can it wait till later? Also, that is only a 1/36 chance to happen anyway so you're really playing the odds on that one.

No, that would be the stupid part of it. 40k is supposed to be a simulation of a real battle, not an abstract game where you exploit loopholes in bad rules. And in a real battle if your commander says "destroy that tank" and you reply "we killed it already" then you're going to be congratulated on succeeding better than expected, you aren't going to be lectured on how much you suck for killing the enemy too soon. There should never be a point where you have to leave an enemy unit alive because you're worried that you might draw a "kill this unit" objective in the future and be unable to complete it because the unit is already dead.

 Peregrine wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
That would be the tactical part of it. Is it worth it to kill the vehicle now, or can it wait till later? Also, that is only a 1/36 chance to happen anyway so you're really playing the odds on that one.

No, that would be the stupid part of it. 40k is supposed to be a simulation of a real battle, not an abstract game where you exploit loopholes in bad rules. And in a real battle if your commander says "destroy that tank" and you reply "we killed it already" then you're going to be congratulated on succeeding better than expected, you aren't going to be lectured on how much you suck for killing the enemy too soon. There should never be a point where you have to leave an enemy unit alive because you're worried that you might draw a "kill this unit" objective in the future and be unable to complete it because the unit is already dead.

But you are forgetting that the game itself is supposed to be a part of a larger battle. You aren't the only part of the army that is fighting. High command has decided that the enemy's tanks are giving them too much of an advantage, everyone try to weed them out. You've already destroyed the only tanks in the vicinity, so the command means nothing to you personally. You are just hoping your allies elsewhere are doing their job. Same with being told to take a certain objective, the war effort requires you to push to an area, either to distract the enemy and allow your allies space to move, as part of a larger push designed to force the enemy to bear the brunt of the assault head on, or hold your position to provide a breakpoint because the enemy is already pushing your support back around you, and the buck has to stop here.

Forge the narrative perigrin

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
That would be the tactical part of it. Is it worth it to kill the vehicle now, or can it wait till later? Also, that is only a 1/36 chance to happen anyway so you're really playing the odds on that one.

No, that would be the stupid part of it. 40k is supposed to be a simulation of a real battle, not an abstract game where you exploit loopholes in bad rules. And in a real battle if your commander says "destroy that tank" and you reply "we killed it already" then you're going to be congratulated on succeeding better than expected, you aren't going to be lectured on how much you suck for killing the enemy too soon. There should never be a point where you have to leave an enemy unit alive because you're worried that you might draw a "kill this unit" objective in the future and be unable to complete it because the unit is already dead.

But you are forgetting that the game itself is supposed to be a part of a larger battle. You aren't the only part of the army that is fighting. High command has decided that the enemy's tanks are giving them too much of an advantage, everyone try to weed them out. You've already destroyed the only tanks in the vicinity, so the command means nothing to you personally. You are just hoping your allies elsewhere are doing their job. Same with being told to take a certain objective, the war effort requires you to push to an area, either to distract the enemy and allow your allies space to move, as part of a larger push designed to force the enemy to bear the brunt of the assault head on, or hold your position to provide a breakpoint because the enemy is already pushing your support back around you, and the buck has to stop here.

Forge the narrative perigrin

If the narrative makes no sense (as your provided example) then there's no point in "forging" it anyway.

Saying that the game is part of a "larger battle" is just a personal assumption, and will only apply if you actually pretend that's the case. The fact that you have an enemy tank right before your face and your hands are wielding a meltagun specifically designed and crafted to turn tanks like that one into a melted and useless chunk of metal, means you should be trying to fry that tank, and the game should reward you for it. Only exception would be if said tank were aiming its gun at an objective you'd be interested to see die, and the tank were in a position where it simply couldn't reach you afterwards.

When "tactical objectives" are generated randomly and may contradict each other as a result (now grab this objective marker here and inmediately go punch the enemy commander, who's sitting at the opposite edge of the table) there's little tactical though involved. They should be called Random Objectives, as it's what they are.

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if points from achieving tactical objectives were just a third of the total points towards deciding the outcome of a battle. Something like points from Random Objectives + Kill Points + real Tactical Objectives (slay the warlord, holding markers at the end, etc).