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Hi folks. Just wondering which Chaos codex was up till now in history your favorite, why and if GW (in your opinion) should base a future Chaos codex on it.

So I began playing around the end of 5th edition and the beginning of 6th edition with the 4th edition CSM codex. Needless to say I was having an extremely hard time back then.
Then I heard about the previous Chaos codex, the revised 3rd edition CHaos codex. Finding it, and reading it, I just realised how we, chaos players, had been robbed of something extremely good, both for its rules and how it managed to translate the fluff on the table board.

Right now I'm playing KDK, which is a huge improvement over the 4th ed CSM codex. Still, I must admit I'd prefer a new Chaos codex based on the 3.5 ed. one.

How about you ?

The codex by Haines et al. has been one of the best codices so far. The best CSM codex ever.

Didnt vote because Renegades and Heretics wasn't an option. Will say that my favorite codex of those provided would be the latest chaos daemons book. As much as people whine about lulzrandom tables and powers I actually enjoy them. Most of the rewards are at least situationally good, up to a GUO with 3+/5++ with FNP and IWND. The warp storm table is my favorite part of the book, usually being positive down the board unless you go 4way mixed army. Still find it hilarious when I have 4 instruments on the board and reroll Nurgle's Rot on the enemy units while summoning Yet More instruments!

3.5 dex. I'd be shocked if any other answer was more popular

3.5 will destroy the competition with no questions asked.

It's a *great* book, with a staggering number of options and it makes a really honest attempt to cater to every possible Chaos Space Marine army in a meaningful way.

It's not perfect of course, with a fair few "obviously over the top" options... but then again, if you were to bring it forward to 2015 and the world of the Decurion, Hunter Cadre and Skyhammer... even the Iron Warriors variant list doesn't seem too bad.

I remember the fluff fondly too; plenty in there about the 13th Black Crusade, a nice memorable bit on the Chosen of Abaddon, and one funny bit I'll always remember about a Keeper of Secrets that had thousands of giant statues made of it across a solar system while it arranged a suicide cult, and when the cult committed mass suicide on a system-wide scale it would harness the power to possess all he giant statues at once and essentially become a new god (it was stopped, of course).

I do miss it.

The current Daemons codex is my fav Chaos codex of them all. I'm first and foremost a lover of all things Daemon, and especially fond of dear 'ol sneaky Tzeentch.

My one big knock against the fabled 3.5ed codex is that it made the mono Legions far too restrictive. For example, Havocs never being able to bear the MoK. While Lascannon or heavy weapon wielding marines might not be the first image one gets of World Eaters, why on earth was there no ability to take Havocs armed to the teeth with flamers or meltas?!

Experiment 626 wrote:
The current Daemons codex is my fav Chaos codex of them all. I'm first and foremost a lover of all things Daemon, and especially fond of dear 'ol sneaky Tzeentch.

My one big knock against the fabled 3.5ed codex is that it made the mono Legions far too restrictive. For example, Havocs never being able to bear the MoK. While Lascannon or heavy weapon wielding marines might not be the first image one gets of World Eaters, why on earth was there no ability to take Havocs armed to the teeth with flamers or meltas?!

It's because of the obsession of Khorne = Melee. Khorne is combat prowess and honor.

That's why I think MoK should be Preferred Enemy, and then Berserker Marines get Rage + Counter Attack, because otherwise MoK Marines are going to continue being the superior choice.
I threw those thoughts on LO though as you noticed haha

The Khorne Daemonkin book is my favorite of all those listed.

The 3.5 CSM book was good but extremely broken for it's edition and extremely poor internal balance with no incentive to take large numbers of options.

My favorite Chaos books though are definitely the Renegades of Vraks and Renegades and Heretics from forgeworld. They have lots of options and incentives to play the different marks. The most recent Chaos Daemons codex is also fantastic with lots of different builds and playstyles that have lasted through multiple editions of the game.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
The current Daemons codex is my fav Chaos codex of them all. I'm first and foremost a lover of all things Daemon, and especially fond of dear 'ol sneaky Tzeentch.

My one big knock against the fabled 3.5ed codex is that it made the mono Legions far too restrictive. For example, Havocs never being able to bear the MoK. While Lascannon or heavy weapon wielding marines might not be the first image one gets of World Eaters, why on earth was there no ability to take Havocs armed to the teeth with flamers or meltas?!

It's because of the obsession of Khorne = Melee. Khorne is combat prowess and honor.

That's why I think MoK should be Preferred Enemy, and then Berserker Marines get Rage + Counter Attack, because otherwise MoK Marines are going to continue being the superior choice.
I threw those thoughts on LO though as you noticed haha

It wasn't so much that, as it was simply that the 3.5 book was in essence a purely "Legions only" codex.

While World Eaters for example may be an entirely 100% Khorne Berserker army, not all mono-Khorne armies are World Eaters! The 3.5 codex really shoehorned the mono-God armies into being purely the original Legion version if you wanted all the added bonuses of going for 1 God.

Hence why in a perfect world, I'd hope to see a new Chaos codex maintain the freedom of being able to mark any unit, but bring in a 'Legion Traits' system akin to the Loyalist's Chapter Tactics system.
That way, we get Legions back, but still maintain the freedom to keep a good level of individuality in actual list building.

As interesting as Daemonkin is, it's really just a rushed together mess of a book, with some rather foolish omissions... (ie: why the flying **** is a unit called gakking Mutilators NOT in the Khornekin book?! Where's the Vindicators which thematically support the sheer violence associated with Khorne?! Etc, etc...)

That's what I love so much about the Daemon codex. It's got some nice benefits to going mono or even opposing Gods, yet isn't punitive or highly restrictive any way.

Can someone elaborate as to why the 3.5 codex was so good? I'm afraid I haven't been around for that long.

I liked the previous Daemon codex the most (which was a 5ed codex despite being two months prior to 5ed, it even had rules in it that didn't exist until 5ed)

DaPino wrote:
Can someone elaborate as to why the 3.5 codex was so good? I'm afraid I haven't been around for that long.

The short version is;
It contained legion rules for nearly all of the legions (I think all, not sure) that were fluffy and pretty good. The marks were more useful overall, and there weren't a ton of bad choices in the dex. Some legions were better than others (Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Siren Bomb legion (forget who could do that) and some were a bit weaker (Night Lords), but everyone got rules that fit the fluff.
You could heavily edit your lords with a ton of equipment and mutations, eventually turning them into a DP. You could ally in demons directly by sacrificing aspiring champions to deep strike them in.
It was basically the current eldar dex of it's time.

People dislike it, because at the time, it was a very strong dex and many people suddenly became Iron Warriors overnight.
In today's meta it wouldn't even be strong at all.

DaPino wrote:
Can someone elaborate as to why the 3.5 codex was so good? I'm afraid I haven't been around for that long.

The codex can be found easily on the internet. Note however that most people refer to it as 4th edition codex (a common misconception). The cover is one of two black legion marines.

In short :

Many wargear, gift, special rules, etc. And good ones also.

Rules for mono-god and legions armies.

Fluffy rules for mixed armies (If your main HQ was Khorne, couldn't include units with MoS).

Daemons were included, and rules for summoning them were extremely good (and they could still move and charge after summoning, something they lack now and is quite an handicap for them since they are mainly CC).

There was actually a mark of Chaos Undivided. Not really good benefit-wise, but was fluffy and useful if you wanted a full mixed army.

Of course, the stats and point cost were those of the time, and as such, some units of this codex could be considered underpowered or overpowered by our present standard (rhinos at 50 pts for exemple).

All in all, you could really feel the Chaos fluff on the table.

More then 30 Mutations that you could buy for your Champions and HQ's from +1A to +1W and invul save or even 2+ save and other exotic mutations that gave birth to USR like Rending and others.

Meaningfull God specific Wargear, with like 10 different Deamon Weapons across all Gods and undivided.

Awesome Chosen/Termie rules/wargear freedom, costy but lethal.

Custome made Deamon Prince, could have a D-Prince that moved like a Beast instead of flying, wich back then made it the only way to assault 12", all other models could only assault 6".

Bad Ass Greater Deamons and Deamons, Bloodletters with 3+ save, 2A, no save Hellblade, and not AP3, so even termies where up to no good Vs them, was summoned on the table, could'nt move but could assault in the same turn.

Out of this World Kharn the Betrayer rules and profil, 4Wound, 5 A+D3+MoK, 2+ armor Eternal Warrior FnP, same rules for Gorechild and Betrayer,185pts.

Chaos Bikes where the only ones in the whole game to have 2A because of the ornemental spikes, they also allowed to reroll 1 to hit roll.

fething Fearless Termies/Chosen/Bikes if given a Mark.

Land Raider had PotMS equivalant...

Chaos Dreads where awesome, particularly liked my 2DCCW dedicated to Khorne Dread that if he rlled a 1 or 2 on the crazy chart e could move6"+D6, assault, and if he assaulted he double his attacks..., ever seen a Dread with 10 Str 10 Attacks on init 5?...,BEST.THING.EVER.

After 3.5 each version has just gotten lamer and lamer until we arrived at dino bots, hellturkies and .... that's about it.

The 3.5 codex was the best by far, despite being broken as all heck.

I liked that it allowed you to have true cultist on almost any unit, with some exceptions. You could have Noise Marine Devastators, Plague Marine bikers, Khorne Berserker Raptors, or Rubric Terminators (my personal favorite).

Vehicles had unique upgrades, that while pricy, made them completely unique to Imperial counterparts. Anyone love having a Predator with armor 14, 13, 11?

The 3.5E codex by far.

Was it perfect? No. It had some plainly overpowered options, and some ludicrously bad options. But it encapsulated and transmitted the feel of the faction better than any other codex GW has ever done, and really largely played very well to the background and shaping fluffy armies that adhered to the background material while still largely functioning well on the table in most instances, though admittedly could also be hideously broken in some ways.

The 2E Chaos codex would be the runner up, and was truly a united "Chaos" codex.

The rest are so far behind they're not even worth mentioning.

Experiment 626 wrote:
The current Daemons codex is my fav Chaos codex of them all. I'm first and foremost a lover of all things Daemon, and especially fond of dear 'ol sneaky Tzeentch.

My one big knock against the fabled 3.5ed codex is that it made the mono Legions far too restrictive. For example, Havocs never being able to bear the MoK. While Lascannon or heavy weapon wielding marines might not be the first image one gets of World Eaters, why on earth was there no ability to take Havocs armed to the teeth with flamers or meltas?!

Largely that was based on the World Eaters fluff, where their fluff had plainly stated for several editions that they'd forsaken all weapons but those used for close combat.

Experiment 626 wrote:
My one big knock against the fabled 3.5ed codex is that it made the mono Legions far too restrictive. For example, Havocs never being able to bear the MoK. While Lascannon or heavy weapon wielding marines might not be the first image one gets of World Eaters, why on earth was there no ability to take Havocs armed to the teeth with flamers or meltas?!

Remember though... Mark of Khorne armies were better back then. For starters, the MoK granted Blood Frenzy. This had the following benefits:

+1 Attack
Fearless
Must charge if there are any enemy units in range during the Assault phase.
At the start of the movement phase, they roll a D6 and on a 1 or 2 they move their movespeed +D6 instead of normal movement toward the nearest enemy, disembarking transports.
If they made this Blood Frenzy move, they cannot shoot during the Shooting phase.
If victorious in assault, they MUST sweeping advance.
Characters without Blood Frenzy cannot join units with Blood Frenzy and vice versa.

Then there's the fact that Furious Charge gave you +1 Strength AND +1 Initiative on the charge.
How about Banner of Rage giving +1 attack to ALL models in the unit instead of the crap Icon of Wrath does?
Or the fact that any units with Mark of Khorne could take Feel No Pain (4+) including Terminators?
Your CHAMPIONS could ride Juggernauts of Khorne into battle or you could just upgrade the WHOLE SQUAD with them!
Last, but certainly not least, the Khornate Chainaxe.... know why every single Berserker had one of these? Because the BEST an armor save can be against it is a 4+.

These are just some of the things a Khorne army could take... they truly didn't need more. If you had access to these things in a modern army, think you'd do well?

Oh, and don't forget that back then even your Vehicles can be dedicated to a god. Vehicles of Khorne were even better in close combat.

Aye, Arkaine's got it right. That dex was the best.

I love the Deamonkin book, but... I only really get 1 list out of it if I want to play it. Still, it's a good laugh dieing in droves.

But the 3.5 book just allowed you so much freedom to build up what you wanted in your army. With the ally rules, you could easily then flesh out another detachment if you wanted to take something different.

RELALY hoping that they go back down that route.

(Bring back decent chainaxes too, they were the bomb for going through space puppies in termy armour, might make berzerkers worth taking again).

Definitely the fluffiest armies were made with that book, before the Blandification that came afterwards.