Saudi Arabia Thread

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**Verviedi**

Original Link:
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http://www.newsweek.com/saudi-arabia-sue-twitter-user-who-called-poets-death-sentence-isis-398415?rx=us

Text:

DOHA (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's justice ministry plans to sue a Twitter user who compared the death sentence handed down on Friday to a Palestinian poet to the punishments meted out by Islamic State, a major government-aligned newspaper reported on Wednesday.

"The justice ministry will sue the person who described ... the sentencing of a man to death for apostasy as being `ISIS-like'," the newspaper Al-Riyadh quoted a source in the justice ministry as saying.

The source did not identify the Twitter user or the possible penalty.

On Friday, a Saudi Arabian court sentenced Palestinian poet Ashraf Fayadh to death for apostasy - abandoning his Muslim faith - according to trial documents seen by Human Rights Watch.

Fayadh was detained by the country's religious police in 2013 in Abha, in southwest Saudi Arabia, and then rearrested and tried in early 2014.

Saudi Arabia's justice system is based on Islamic Sharia law, and its judges are clerics from the kingdom's ultra- conservative Wahhabi school of Sunni Islam. In the Wahhabi interpretation of Sharia, religious crimes, including blasphemy and apostasy, incur the death penalty.

In January, liberal writer Raif Badawi was flogged 50 times after he was sentenced to 10 years in prison and 1,000 lashes for blasphemy last year, prompting an international outcry. Badawi remains in prison, but diplomats say he is unlikely to be flogged again.

In 2014, a Saudi court in Riyadh sentenced three lawyers to up to eight years in jail after they criticized the justice ministry on Twitter.

The charges were dropped in early 2015 after King Salman inherited the throne from his brother.

"Questioning the fairness of the courts is to question the justice of the Kingdom and its judicial system based on Islamic law, which guarantees rights and ensures human dignity", Al-Riyadh quoted the justice ministry source as saying. The ministry would not hesitate to put on trial "any media that slandered the religious judiciary of the Kingdom," it said.

Saudi Arabia's Justice Ministry or other officials could not immediately be reached for comment.

**LordofHats**

It's always refreshing being reminded that the guys on our side are only slightly preferable to the guys we're both fighting

What exactly did the Palestinian poet do? It says he abandoned his Muslim Faith, but that could mean a lot of things, and not so sure I trust SA's courts to actually care about the difference between disagreement and apostasy

**Verviedi**

Saudi Arabia isn't exactly on our side, seeing as they are funding ISIS and accepting no refugees. Unfortunately, they have oil.

He committed the "crime" of being an Atheist. It's always nice to know that I can be murdered offhand for existing in certain countries.

**LordofHats**

accepting no refugees.

They are, but just like with Palestinian refugees, SA doesn't report them as refugees but rather as immigrants. Not that many though. I think the estimate is guessed as 10k, which is a puny number compared to Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey. EDIT: This source says 500k, but I find that number preposterous. No way it's that high..

Probably not going to bother explaining the complex relationship between ME countries and terrorist groups. Too tired to bother XD

He committed the "crime" of being an Atheist. It's always nice to know that I can be murdered offhand for existing in certain countries.

Yeah. Looking up news articles now. Sounds like he got arrested for some minor offence, was given a minor sentence, then some Judge jumped in upped the charges and made the sentence death because "how dare this guy criticize our death sentence practices" about something he did back in 2008. I suppose the Twitter user will get the same treatment.

**Crazy_Carnifex**

LordofHats wrote:
It's always refreshing being reminded that the guys on our side are only slightly preferable to the guys we're both fighting

Careful. Sounds of it, that language is cause for a lawsuit by the Saudi Government

**LordofHats**

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
It's always refreshing being reminded that the guys on our side are only slightly preferable to the guys we're both fighting

Careful. Sounds of it, that language is cause for a lawsuit by the Saudi Government

They can't touch me, my dad owns a dealership

**SilverMK2**

Clearly the concept of irony is somewhat lkst in translation.

But it is good to know that committing immaginary crimes against things that don't exist ia punishable by massive jail terms, flogging and death. And speaking out against the religious nut jobs in charge and the rediculous system of "justice" they have is punished the same way.

Very glad that religion has less and less power every day in the UK.

**Verviedi**

Sadly seems the opposite over here.

**LordofHats**

SilverMK2 wrote:
Clearly the concept of irony is somewhat lkst in translation.

But it is good to know that committing immaginary crimes against things that don't exist ia punishable by massive jail terms, flogging and death. And speaking out against the religious nut jobs in charge and the rediculous system of "justice" they have is punished the same way.

Very glad that religion has less and less power every day in the UK.

Meanwhile, American political candidates propose the Bureau of Promoting Judeo-Christian Awesomeness

It's scary when I sit and here at my keyboard and think "Maybe my country isn't so different from Saudi Arabia" *shivers*

**SilverMK2**

LordofHats wrote:

Meanwhile, American political candidates propose the Bureau of Promoting Judeo-Christian Awesomeness

That can only go well... don't you guys have something about the state not promoting any religion or religious beliefs written into your founding document or something?

**LethalShade**

LordofHats wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:
Clearly the concept of irony is somewhat lkst in translation.

But it is good to know that committing immaginary crimes against things that don't exist ia punishable by massive jail terms, flogging and death. And speaking out against the religious nut jobs in charge and the rediculous system of "justice" they have is punished the same way.

Very glad that religion has less and less power every day in the UK.

Meanwhile, American political candidates propose the Bureau of Promoting Judeo-Christian Awesomeness

It's scary when I sit and here at my keyboard and think "Maybe my country isn't so different from Saudi Arabia" *shivers*

Well, from an external point of view, I have the regrets to inform you that your country...

Seriously though, I've never seen France (The country of Human Rights, keep that in mind) oppose Saudi Arabia in any way other than the occasional "This might be a bad thing" slap on the wrist.

**Torga_DW**

The right to free speech is a big thing. So is the right to choosing your religion. But we need oil it seems, so i'll just go ahead and brush this under the carpet.

**LordofHats**

SilverMK2 wrote:
LordofHats wrote:

Meanwhile, American political candidates propose the Bureau of Promoting Judeo-Christian Awesomeness

That can only go well... don't you guys have something about the state not promoting any religion or religious beliefs written into your founding document or something?

^ A brief History of America and Separation of Church and State

Seriously though, I've never seen France (The country of Human Rights, keep that in mind) oppose Saudi Arabia in any way other than the occasional "This might be a bad thing" slap on the wrist.

Mostly because SA, as much as we dislike their domestic policies, is considered preferable to not having SA around. They're a stabilizing influence on other ME states and the oil trade. Real politik and all that. I mean, Syria and Iraq were significant states in their own right and look what's become of their government's going under.

**Relapse**

I've had it said to me that France and the U.S. are the two most free countries in the world. I never thought about it much one way or the other, to tell the truth.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I might have to research that, though.

**LethalShade**

Relapse wrote:
I've had it said to me that France and the U.S. are the two most free countries in the world. I never thought about it much one way or the other, to tell the truth.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I might have to research that, though.

Honestly, I don't think we're "more free" than most Western/Northern European countries. As for the US, I've heard a lot about it (in a bad way), but I never went there personally so I can't really tell.

**Psienesis**

SilverMK2 wrote:
LordofHats wrote:

Meanwhile, American political candidates propose the Bureau of Promoting Judeo-Christian Awesomeness

That can only go well... don't you guys have something about the state not promoting any religion or religious beliefs written into your founding document or something?

Not exactly. That is how it's generally been interpreted for 200+ years, but there's a sizeable number of people currently in high offices who interpret it... very differently. Or just ignore the Establishment Clause entirely.

**hotsauceman1**

when did Saudi Arabia turn into tumblr

**Relapse**

LethalShade wrote:
Relapse wrote:
I've had it said to me that France and the U.S. are the two most free countries in the world. I never thought about it much one way or the other, to tell the truth.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I might have to research that, though.

Honestly, I don't think we're "more free" than most Western/Northern European countries. As for the US, I've heard a lot about it (in a bad way), but I never went there personally so I can't really tell.

The differences between some countries might be so minute as to be non existant except for a passing notice. My brother and his family love France and had a daughter studying there. Any of my friends that have been there love it also and I really haven't heard anything bad from anyone that has been there.
For myself, I've been to some other countries(Carribean and South American) and though I've loved to people I've met in them, I was glad to get back home.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Relapse wrote:
I've had it said to me that France and the U.S. are the two most free countries in the world. I never thought about it much one way or the other, to tell the truth.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I might have to research that, though.

There's no such thing as the "most free" country in the world, because "freedom" is subjective. For example, if the average Republican politician knew how powerful the unions are in Sweden he or she would probably explode, and views of what constitute freedom of speech are rather different even between "Western" countries. There's also a difference between whether "freedom" means "freedom from" (i.e. freedom from the state intervening) or "freedom to" (i.e. state subventions and the like to facilitate citizen activities).

**Relapse**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Relapse wrote:
I've had it said to me that France and the U.S. are the two most free countries in the world. I never thought about it much one way or the other, to tell the truth.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I might have to research that, though.

There's no such thing as the "most free" country in the world, because "freedom" is subjective. For example, if the average Republican politician knew how powerful the unions are in Sweden he or she would probably explode, and views of what constitute freedom of speech are rather different even between "Western" countries. There's also a difference between whether "freedom" means "freedom from" (i.e. freedom from the state intervening) or "freedom to" (i.e. state subventions and the like to facilitate citizen activities).

As I said, it's something I would have to research. What is meant by union power? I had a friend doing an internship at Boeing who moved a piece of steel three feet away from his work station to find he had gotten into trouble for doing a union man's job in moving the thing. There can be a point where union power gets ridiculous and removes freedom. That being said, I'm sure we could trade horror stories all day about Union pros and cons, but will have less and less to do with the main topic.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

hotsauceman1 wrote:
when did Saudi Arabia turn into tumblr

They just tumbled on in.

**Kilkrazy**

Indeed. Freedom means different things depending on your perspective.

USA has more freedom for buying a gun, less for having an abortion.
France has more freedom for having an abortion, less for wearing a burqa.
Britain has more freedom for wearing a burqa, less for committing a libel.

USA has the death penalty, France and UK don't.
France has a law against Holocaust Denial, UK and USA don't.
UK has a state religion, USA and France are secular.

But at the fundamental level, all three countries are liberal representative democracies with the rule of law, freedom of speech (within variable limits), freedom of religion, and so on.

**Wolfstan**

As I said before, we need to find an alternative to oil and then sit back and watch the buggers do a 'WTF' double take when they realise that they are totally pointless without it. Close the borders and then let them play "my way of believing in Allah is better than yours" or "I'm a truer believer than you are".

**AlmightyWalrus**

Relapse wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Relapse wrote:
I've had it said to me that France and the U.S. are the two most free countries in the world. I never thought about it much one way or the other, to tell the truth.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I might have to research that, though.

There's no such thing as the "most free" country in the world, because "freedom" is subjective. For example, if the average Republican politician knew how powerful the unions are in Sweden he or she would probably explode, and views of what constitute freedom of speech are rather different even between "Western" countries. There's also a difference between whether "freedom" means "freedom from" (i.e. freedom from the state intervening) or "freedom to" (i.e. state subventions and the like to facilitate citizen activities).

As I said, it's something I would have to research. What is meant by union power? I had a friend doing an internship at Boeing who moved a piece of steel three feet away from his work station to find he had gotten into trouble for doing a union man's job in moving the thing. There can be a point where union power gets ridiculous and removes freedom. That being said, I'm sure we could trade horror stories all day about Union pros and cons, but will have less and less to do with the main topic.

In my example, union power as in "the unions negotiate the wages for everyone, not just union members" (simplified of course, but still). I'm not saying it's bad, mind you, just that the power of the unions in Sweden would make political heads explode if they knew.

**Ashiraya**

And now they explode their heads over our taxes instead. What's the difference?

**LordofHats**

hotsauceman1 wrote:when did Saudi Arabia turn into tumblr

This made me laugh more than it should have.

Relapse wrote:They just tumbled on in.

My sides can't handle it.

**Orlanth**

Verviedi wrote:
Saudi Arabia isn't exactly on our side, seeing as they are funding ISIS and accepting no refugees. Unfortunately, they have oil.

That bs again.

There is a HUGE difference between Saudi Arabia funding terrorism and individual Saudi's funding terrorism. You get terrorist supporters from everywhere, so if you actually thought through your claim by your own standards the whole world supports ISIS including the USA.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverMK2 wrote:

Very glad that religion has less and less power every day in the UK.

The opposite is true. Christianity has been sidelined by intent, particularly in the Blair years; but Islam has not, and it's growing in power. For example, Gordon Brown caved in to allowing Sharia courts in England.

**MrDwhitey**

Gordon Brown made the 1996 Arbitration Act?

Could you expand on what you mean by that? I mean, Gordon Brown was a piece of gak PM so I wouldn't be surprised to hear more about him being useless.

Annoyingly trying to look it up is leading me on a minefield of insanity.

**SilverMK2**

Orlanth wrote:
The opposite is true.

I don't think so...

Christianity has been sidelined by intent

About time. But not particularly by intent. It is simply being pared down to have the same power and influence as any other belief in magical powers and invisible things. Which ideally would be none.

Islam has not, and it's growing in power. For example, Gordon Brown caved in to allowing Sharia courts in England.

You mean "courts" that are non binding in any form, including in participation, judgement and sentence? That are exactly the same as pretty much any other arbitration service? Including "Christian courts"?

**Orlanth**

SilverMK2 wrote:
.

Christianity has been sidelined by intent

About time. But not particularly by intent. It is simply being pared down to have the same power and influence as any other belief in magical powers and invisible things. Which ideally would be none.

Atheist bigotry does not an argument make. Religious rights should not and are not viably measured against your yardstick of hating religion.

Blair practiced lay investiture. He rejected any bishop appointment until he got the person he wanted. And what he wanted was anyone who was Labour first and Christian second if at all. Williams is very good example of this, the CoE was lampooned for not selecting an Archbishop in synod to replace Runcie, when in fact they appointed one quickly, only to have thier choice systemically turned down by the prime minister until they got around to appointing Williams (who was very low down the list). Williams was good at doing nothing, he even took a years sabbatical 'to write a book' while there was a crisis in the Anglican churches in Africa. He could also be relied upon to remain silent when measures were taken against the Christian churches by the Blair government.
A number of growing Pentecostal movements had their churches closed down for being successful, most notably the Acton Tabernacle, and this was done while dangerous terror groups like Al-Mouhajiroun were untouched. There was a lot of heavy handed and one sided control of the church.
Another good example was the freezing out of CoE Christian prison ministry, because it was seen as untrendy and unwanted by pro-atheistic groups in the government. Something which Williams did not and was not expected to protest. However Islamic prison ministry was untouched because of the doctrine of multi-culturalism. This has led to a marked increase of radicalism in prison, a portion of violent Islamic radicals were and still are recruited from prison converts.

SilverMK2 wrote:
.
You mean "courts" that are non binding in any form, including in participation, judgement and sentence? That are exactly the same as pretty much any other arbitration service? Including "Christian courts"?

1. What Christian courts?

2. Islamic courts are techically voluntary, but women in Islamic communities in the UK are at severe risk of disempowerment and being forced to 'voluntarily' accept their ruling.

**MrDwhitey**

Sources for anything you've said? I look up Acton Tabernacle, get US (and some UK thing that ended in the 70s), and Al-Mouhawhatever operated from the 80's.

Also please answer how Gordon Brown is responsible for Sharia courts, with sources, thanks.