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Hi guys,

I was wondering about the aforementioned Tau flyer. Has it become more effective?

1. It has a networked markerlight, a great rarity in the codex, which allows it tomarkerlight its own attacks and, hence, anybody that it Coordinates Fire with.

2. It is a vehicle. Doesn't this mean that it benefits from Fire Team if it CFs with other vehicles or Monstrous Critters with the Fire Team rule? Meaning that its networked markerlight will be shooting with BS5?

1. Yep
2. Sunshark doesn't have Fire Team.

Are you referring to the one in the Codex or the one from Mont'ka?

Codex: Yes, networked ML for coord fire. Sunsharks do not have Fire Team so they dont get +1BS.

Mont'ka: No, because this formation cannot be taken in the Hunter Contingent to get the Coord Fire rule. Neither can the Codex one get into the Dawn Blade formation for the free Doom effect per turn.

Which Mont'ka formation are you referring to? If you're talking about the air superiority cadre that's razorsharks only.

I'm refering to the Kauyon "Decurion."

I know that the SS doesn't itself have Fire Team, but I thought the way that the rule is worded if it participated in a CF attack with models that _do_ have Fire Team, it would get the bonus?

Alcibiades wrote:

I'm refering to the Kauyon "Decurion."

I know that the SS doesn't itself have Fire Team, but I thought the way that the rule is worded if it participated in a CF attack with models that _do_ have Fire Team, it would get the bonus?

You are correct. Now that they are one unit using CFP, any Vehicles or MC that is participating, even if they don't have Fireteam, get +1 BS as long as another model in the unit does have it.

So you could take a Sun Shark, CF in combination with Ghostkeels or Hammerheads or Riptides, and bump its markerlight BS up to 5? Which, if it hits, could then increase the BS of the shooting attacks of all the other units that it is firing with?

By which I mean, say

We have a couple of Hammerheads (which have Fire Team) and a Sun Shark (God what an awful name that is).

They all target the same enemy unit.

Sun Shark fires its markerlight at BS 3 + 1 (Coordinated Fire) + 1 (Fire Team) = 5.

Assuming it hits the target and that ML is used to increase the BS of the Sun Shark itself, the Hammerheads now fire at the target at BS 4 + 1 (CF) + 1 (FT) + 1 (ML) = 7, while the Sun Shark itself fires its missile pod at BS 3 + 1 (CF) + 1 (FT) + 1 (ML) = 6.

Is this right?

Alcibiades wrote:
So you could take a Sun Shark, CF in combination with Ghostkeels or Hammerheads or Riptides, and bump its markerlight BS up to 5? Which, if it hits, could then increase the BS of the shooting attacks of all the other units that it is firing with?

By which I mean, say

We have a couple of Hammerheads (which have Fire Team) and a Sun Shark (God what an awful name that is).

They all target the same enemy unit.

Sun Shark fires its markerlight at BS 3 + 1 (Coordinated Fire) + 1 (Fire Team) = 5.

Assuming it hits the target and that ML is used to increase the BS of the Sun Shark itself, the Hammerheads now fire at the target at BS 4 + 1 (CF) + 1 (FT) + 1 (ML) = 7, while the Sun Shark itself fires its missile pod at BS 3 + 1 (CF) + 1 (FT) + 1 (ML) = 6.

Is this right?

From a RAW yes that is 100% correct. However, based on how ITC has ruled on rule sharing with buffmander, it could be argued that it also does not work for Fireteam.

No, because only vehicles with Fire Team benefit from Fire team.

So you'd fire the NW-ML at BS4 (base BS3 +1 for combined fire)

If you're using the "rules share because they fire as one unit" interpretation (I'm not going to open that can of worms here, that's a totally different argument), then only certain rules (that it specifically says convey to the unit if one or more models has the rule, like shrouded or tank hunter) are transfered, not all. You wouldn't suddenly gain fire team if you didn't already have it.

If you combined fire with 3 hammerheads and a Sun shark though, then you coud fire your markerlight at BS4 and then your hammerheads would be BS7 (4 base, +1 for combined fire, +1 for 3 models with fire team, +1 for networked markerlight), though any remaining fire from the sun shark would "only" be BS5 (3 base, +1 combined fire, +1 networked markerlight).

 Drasius wrote:
No, because only vehicles with Fire Team benefit from Fire team.

So you'd fire the NW-ML at BS4 (base BS3 +1 for combined fire)

If you're using the "rules share because they fire as one unit" interpretation (I'm not going to open that can of worms here, that's a totally different argument), then only certain rules (that it specifically says convey to the unit if one or more models has the rule, like shrouded or tank hunter) are transfered, not all. You wouldn't suddenly gain fire team if you didn't already have it.

If you combined fire with 3 hammerheads and a Sun shark though, then you coud fire your markerlight at BS4 and then your hammerheads would be BS7 (4 base, +1 for combined fire, +1 for 3 models with fire team, +1 for networked markerlight), though any remaining fire from the sun shark would "only" be BS5 (3 base, +1 combined fire, +1 networked markerlight).

Please read the rule correctly before saying i am wrong.
"Whilst a unit with this special rule includes 3 vehicles or Monstrous Creatures, ALL vehicles and monsters creatures in the unit have +1 Ballistic Skill"

As long as one model has the rule in a unit firing, all vehicles and MC EVEN IF THEY DONT HAVE THE FIRETEAM RULE THEMSELVES, get +1 BS

Yeah, it's not an instance of rules sharing via CF, but part of the Fire Team rule itself. I think.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
No, because only vehicles with Fire Team benefit from Fire team.

So you'd fire the NW-ML at BS4 (base BS3 +1 for combined fire)

If you're using the "rules share because they fire as one unit" interpretation (I'm not going to open that can of worms here, that's a totally different argument), then only certain rules (that it specifically says convey to the unit if one or more models has the rule, like shrouded or tank hunter) are transfered, not all. You wouldn't suddenly gain fire team if you didn't already have it.

If you combined fire with 3 hammerheads and a Sun shark though, then you coud fire your markerlight at BS4 and then your hammerheads would be BS7 (4 base, +1 for combined fire, +1 for 3 models with fire team, +1 for networked markerlight), though any remaining fire from the sun shark would "only" be BS5 (3 base, +1 combined fire, +1 networked markerlight).

Please read the rule correctly before saying i am wrong.
"Whilst a unit with this special rule includes 3 vehicles or Monstrous Creatures, ALL vehicles and monsters creatures in the unit have +1 Ballistic Skill"

As long as one model has the rule in a unit firing, all vehicles and MC EVEN IF THEY DONT HAVE THE FIRETEAM RULE THEMSELVES, get +1 BS

You just explained how it doesn't work. And you completely changed the context in your defensive statement.

You said - "If a MODEL"

The rules states - "IF a UNIT"

Thus, since the shark does not have fireteam, it does not meet the criteria of "a unit with the special rule", and therefore does not benefit.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
No, because only vehicles with Fire Team benefit from Fire team.

So you'd fire the NW-ML at BS4 (base BS3 +1 for combined fire)

If you're using the "rules share because they fire as one unit" interpretation (I'm not going to open that can of worms here, that's a totally different argument), then only certain rules (that it specifically says convey to the unit if one or more models has the rule, like shrouded or tank hunter) are transfered, not all. You wouldn't suddenly gain fire team if you didn't already have it.

If you combined fire with 3 hammerheads and a Sun shark though, then you coud fire your markerlight at BS4 and then your hammerheads would be BS7 (4 base, +1 for combined fire, +1 for 3 models with fire team, +1 for networked markerlight), though any remaining fire from the sun shark would "only" be BS5 (3 base, +1 combined fire, +1 networked markerlight).

Please read the rule correctly before saying i am wrong.
"Whilst a unit with this special rule includes 3 vehicles or Monstrous Creatures, ALL vehicles and monsters creatures in the unit have +1 Ballistic Skill"

As long as one model has the rule in a unit firing, all vehicles and MC EVEN IF THEY DONT HAVE THE FIRETEAM RULE THEMSELVES, get +1 BS

You just explained how it doesn't work. And you completely changed the context in your defensive statement.

You said - "If a MODEL"

The rules states - "IF a UNIT"

Thus, since the shark does not have fireteam, it does not meet the criteria of "a unit with the special rule", and therefore does not benefit.

*sigh* you are missing the point. If it specifically says "ALL vehicles and monsters creatures in the unit have +1 Ballistic Skill"

That means even if a model does not have fire team (Sunshark) they still get +1BS as long as they are in a unit that has Fireteam, meaning 1 other model must have it. Using CFP, you can combine units into shooting as if one unit.

It really isn't that clear. If it said.

"A unit with atleast 1 model with the fireteam special rule includes 3 vehicles or MCs... "

However it does not say that..

I would interpret that then meaning that each model in the unit must have the fireteam rule.

I see your point, currently, I do not see it working that way. Are there any precedents to this rule that we can toss up to why it would work in your favor?

 Grizzyzz wrote:
It really isn't that clear. If it said.

"A unit with atleast 1 model with the fireteam special rule includes 3 vehicles or MCs... "

However it does not say that..

I would interpret that then meaning that each model in the unit must have the fireteam rule.

I see your point, currently, I do not see it working that way. Are there any precedents to this rule that we can toss up to why it would work in your favor?

Because it does not say "every model must have this special rule". It specifically says If the unit has the rule, ALL MC/vehicles get +1BS. It does not say the MC/vehicle itself has to have the fire team rule, just that the unit as a whole must have it.

Also single models are still considered units.

notredameguy10 wrote:

Because it does not say "every model must have this special rule". It specifically says If the unit has the rule, ALL MC/vehicles get +1BS. It does not say the MC/vehicle itself has to have the fire team rule, just that the unit as a whole must have it.

again though that is just another interpretation of the rule. All the rules that I can think of when it states a unit with this special rule, every model must have that rule. Where it requires just one model to have it, it says a unit containing at least 1 model.

As stated before.. you keep reiterating. Show me another rule that is clear as day that uses the interpretation you want. 'Prove' me wrong. Because when I go and do this and someone with my opinion calls me out, I want to know exactly what I should say back to them.

Cheers!

Alcibiades wrote:

I'm refering to the Kauyon "Decurion."

I don't know why people call it a decurion. Its called the Hunter Contingent. You can even abbreviate it to HC. Say it it with me - Hunter Contingent.

It helps if you learn the names of the formations for your own army.

 McNinja wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:

I'm refering to the Kauyon "Decurion."

I don't know why people call it a decurion. Its called the Hunter Contingent. You can even abbreviate it to HC. Say it it with me - Hunter Contingent.

It helps if you learn the names of the formations for your own army.

You mean the Hunter Contingent (HC) whose required core choice is the Hunter Cadre (HC)? Yep, no room for confusion there.

It's definitely not as if 'Decurion' is the widely accepted terminology for all of the Codex formation-detachments and everyone knows what you're talking about when you say that.

People being rude over the choice of what to call these new detachments is one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen--always hard to underestimate the urge to be condescending on the internet, I guess.

Bonus points for this guy if he goes up to some random people at his local store and asks about the "Tau HC" and then tries to pretend like they knew what he was talking about. Then, tries the same thing with "Tau Decurion" and compares the result.

 McNinja wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:

I'm refering to the Kauyon "Decurion."

I don't know why people call it a decurion. Its called the Hunter Contingent. You can even abbreviate it to HC. Say it it with me - Hunter Contingent.

It helps if you learn the names of the formations for your own army.

Say it with me -- calm the hell down.

The arguiment over Fire Team to one side, to people think that the presence of the networked markerlight has opened up possibilities for the bomber in the Tau "Decurion"?

Alcibiades wrote:

The arguiment over Fire Team to one side, to people think that the presence of the networked markerlight has opened up possibilities for the bomber in the Tau "Decurion"?

So here is the thing.. you can always fire the markerlight and let someone else use the it to gain BS.

What you have now though, assuming an HCON (hunter contingent...idk trying something catchy) is that not only can the bomber use it, but the bomber can now CF with other units to gain the CF +1 BS.. and since its a network markerlight let those combined units get access to it.

Essentially this 1 network markerlight could potentially give +2 BS with CF. Since the bomb is dropped in movement, your free to join in to help out where needed in the shooting phase.

Is this a super awesome strategy to use... I think its one heck of an expensive option for max +2 BS...If your goal is to get another markerlight option. If you like the sad bombs it drops... then atleast you get something else out of it. bomber is 165? you can run an entire drone network for 16 markerlight drones for 224.

Cheers!