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Hi,
the first results of the first turn for the regional (district) elections in France have arrived.
So the Front National is now the first party in France, with about 30% of the electorate.
Despite the total bashing from all over France (employers, artists, government...), the far-right is unstoppable.
Did you even heard of the elections in France in the US (by the way, I'm sorry for you losses in San Bernardino) ?
I think the UK/Germany must be totally aware of this event.
If you don't know what the National Front is:
- they defend the Christian identity and the traditions of France (mainly against Islam),
-they want to leave / to quit the UE and they want France to have its own money.
-They want more "discipline" less laxity.
-They aren't liberal.
They are often accused to be racist and to make amalgam.

So, any reaction ? Do you think the next French President(2017) will be a Front National one ?

I have seen, rising on fear, euro sceptics and immigration crisis.

Our own far right has gained some ground but not same electoral ground they have.

 godardc wrote:

Did you even heard of the elections in France in the US (by the way, I'm sorry for you losses in San Bernardino) ?

To the best of my limited knowledge, our 24/7s haven't talked about it at all. They're too busy drumming up our own fear by spending days talking about nothing but San Bernardino. Most of the news I actively follow is internationally oriented, so I don't think it counts.

 jhe90 wrote:
Our own far right has gained some ground but not same electoral ground they have.

Well, to be fair, England hasn't had as many mass terrorist attacks as France. Yes, there was that nasty attack on the Tunnel but France has had two separate events where multiple shooters attacked multiple targets on a single day. It's hard to blame people for adopting protectionist attitudes.

The more the Extremists execute their missions the more support the front will get.
Same applies to all around the world.

 Breotan wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Our own far right has gained some ground but not same electoral ground they have.

Well, to be fair, England hasn't had as many mass terrorist attacks as France. Yes, there was that nasty attack on the Tunnel but France has had two separate events where multiple shooters attacked multiple targets on a single day. It's hard to blame people for adopting protectionist attitudes.

Aye, we had the recent attack in London with a knife just this week.
We have not had same no, thankfully but still the right is louder than before.

People are afraid, they try to feel safe by choosing extremes.

(Spoiler : This will not work and France is digging its own grave)

They might however find that like UKIP the parties labelled as far-right are less extreme than mainstream tells the populace.

People are told vote UKIP get "fascists". This is an opportunity to prove to Europe this is not true.

The right is raising not due to 'hatred' but concern for the problems facing Europe most politicians would rather pretend do not exist.

50% absentees, a 30year incapability to reform, elitarian closed political circles, encrusted mainstream politics of the ps-ump block, people looking for easy answers to complex questions...

I think it would help a lot if the FN got the chance to show their inability to govern regionally.

The problem is just that once forces with a flawed sense of democracy rise to national power, it is usually the start of a spiral that ends outside the boundaries of a functioning democracy. See Hungaria, Romania, Turkey (debatable if they were ever more than proto-democracies but still) and starting in Poland, Italy....

Im actually surprised its taken this long. We've had 2-3 generations brought up post WW2 in a world where right and centre politics have been demonised and we've ended up with a bloated and divided left thats been increasingly showing more fascism itself. Horseshoe theory in action.

If it as bad as described, do you think the French will dump them in the next election?

Relapse wrote:
If it as bad as described, do you think the French will dump them in the next election?

Hope so. But I have serious doubts about it. You know what people can do when they are afraid.

It was on Dutch news today. It has been happening in the Netherlands as well, with Geert Wilders and his freedom party (PVV). It seems to be a reaction in a lot of European countries.
Lots of people are disappointed in the centrist liberal parties that have dominated European politics until now.
The left has the same kinds of reaction, with far-left socialists gaining more and more popularity while centre-left social-democrats lose votes.

Interesting to see if this new trend will lead to actual change, and if so, how it will work out.

Relapse
Post 07/12/2015 01:16:25 Subject: The Rise of The National Front in France
If it as bad as described, do you think the French will dump them in the next election?

I don't think so, because, even if the turns out that the FN is as bad as their scared opponent try to make people think, they have one thing the other don't have:
they will try to resolve the problems the others never even tried to handle.

Orianth said: "The right is raising not due to 'hatred' but concern for the problems facing Europe most politicians would rather pretend do not exist.".

And that's true.

An example: the FN mayor of Bezier, Robert Menard, since his election, did a lot (toomuch ?^^) for the security (he gave guns to his police, curfew for the minor, canine unit, equestrian unit / horseback unit (?)), made a Christmas crib in the City Hall even if it is illegal, prohibited to let the dirty laundry dry outside.
Issues that concern people that were never correctly handled (people love to feel safe and to see their traditions respected. He listen to them, because he doesn't care about "togetherness" / living together, just the French people and French traditions.
Even if it is not incredible changes, he did things which matter for his people.

So, if the FN don't succeed to save the country, I think they can still hold, because they will make christian traditions respected. They will make people feel safer. They will try their own way, and people will see this changes really quicly, not like when the socialists came to the governement, there hadn't any noticeable change.

And, ofc, if they aren't bad,oh they will stay for long, and even warrant the other far-right party. But this isn't for this year anyway^^^

I still order Freedom Fries, so French politics aren't in my purview.

Joking. Isn't the FN leader a woman? Could she potentially be a French Thatcher? I can see some parallels between "The Troubles" of the 1970's and the "Troubles" with Islam right now.

I wonder if the hardcore social conservatives of ISIL types want a political conservative leader in their enemies or a more liberal one. I know they want which ever one will react more harshly and impetuously, but that still remains to be seen who will comply.

A lot of people instantly malign the Right with warmongering, but I don't really know if that's true, at least for the political side. Social cons are very often very violent worldwide, but political ones not so much. I find them more isolationist.

 godardc wrote:

So, if the FN don't succeed to save the country, I think they can still hold, because they will make christian traditions respected. They will make people feel safer. They will try their own way, and people will see this changes really quicly, not like when the socialists came to the governement, there hadn't any noticeable change.

And, ofc, if they aren't bad,oh they will stay for long, and even warrant the other far-right party. But this isn't for this year anyway^^^

I have the feeling they will contribute to further alienate the French Muslim population in favor of preserving our Judeo-Christian traditions (let's remember our laicity principle which applies to ANY religion).
So, sure, if they are awful a lot of people will start to vote again, and another party will get elected. But on the other hand, if they are as incompetent as everyone else (I think they will), abstention will skyrocket to unprecedented levels.

 godardc wrote:
Hi,
the first results of the first turn for the regional (district) elections in France have arrived.
So the Front National is now the first party in France, with about 30% of the electorate.
Despite the total bashing from all over France (employers, artists, government...), the far-right is unstoppable.
Did you even heard of the elections in France in the US (by the way, I'm sorry for you losses in San Bernardino) ?
I think the UK/Germany must be totally aware of this event.
If you don't know what the National Front is:
- they defend the Christian identity and the traditions of France (mainly against Islam),
-they want to leave / to quit the UE and they want France to have its own money.
-They want more "discipline" less laxity.
-They aren't liberal.
They are often accused to be racist and to make amalgam.

So, any reaction ? Do you think the next French President(2017) will be a Front National one ?

I'd imagine it's a temporary reaction to what's happened in paris. It'll die down eventually I'm sure. For now though their stance sounds suited to people's interests after the terrorist attacks.

-----

Dunno how I feel about discipline.

Not super happy about the liberal side of things personally. Some politically left idea are fine in my book (gay marriage, things not being so massively Christian) but it goes overboard in some areas.

If you mean the EU I know that at times it has gotten plenty of complaints (if we're talking the euro then it sounds annoying how you have to deal with some countries' debts and it's understandable).

Dunno about the traditions of france and personally I'm not really into religion overall.

On the subject of racism is this actual racism (people of certain races being beaten and specifically refused jobs for religious or ethnic reasons) or the accused racism for not having absolutely every job with absolute representation of all groups equally despite the proportions of people in the area and applying for such jobs and other such nonsense where joking about a stereotype equals instant racism or various other things.

-----

That said I'm not aware of what politics are like in france. It's not my country so i'll leave the voting to someone that lives there and actually lives out what's going on there.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

On the subject of racism is this actual racism (people of certain races being beaten and specifically refused jobs for religious or ethnic reasons) or the accused racism for not having absolutely every job with absolute representation of all groups equally despite the proportions of people in the area and applying for such jobs and other such nonsense where joking about a stereotype equals instant racism or various other things.

Her father is a known anti-Semite and Holocaust denier, and the Front National attracts a lot of far-right extremists which are more or less openly racist (there were some Neo-Nazis IIRC).
Marine Le Pen tried for several years to hide these bad apples and "un-demonize" the FN (If this even means something).

 LethalShade wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

On the subject of racism is this actual racism (people of certain races being beaten and specifically refused jobs for religious or ethnic reasons) or the accused racism for not having absolutely every job with absolute representation of all groups equally despite the proportions of people in the area and applying for such jobs and other such nonsense where joking about a stereotype equals instant racism or various other things.

Her father is a known anti-Semite and Holocaust denier, and the Front National attracts a lot of far-right extremists which are more or less openly racist (there were some Neo-Nazis IIRC).
Marine Le Pen tried for several years to hide these bad apples and "un-demonize" the FN (If this even means something).

Whose father? I find it very odd a holocaust denier would have any weight but that does fit with the anti-Semite (anti-jewish) agenda.

Personally I don't understand neo-nazis and how they crop up anywhere outside of Germany. Didn't the original Nazis think of anybody not german and not Aryan as sub-human. If you're French and supporting this it seems like you're supporting a group that didn't support you. I just don't understand. Or is being a neo-Nazi more about pro-white? I've heard lots of weird neo-Nazi groups (including a homosexual Russian neo-Nazi group) and many of them sound like they're made by groups of people with lower than average intelligence.

You have to forgive me if I don't always believe the racism route as I've heard people complain about racist words, depictions and so on that ends up being fairly mild by my tastes. Some days it feels like if you're white and you joke about middle eastern people driving taxis you'll get a stereotype and racism ban hammer of sorts. Almost like people have gone overboard with being offended to the point where if somebody suggests things aren't 100% equal in skill, traits, physical aspects and everything between the races in different places you'll just set some people's brains to short-circuit and fry with anger.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Some days it feels like if you're white and you joke about middle eastern people driving taxis you'll get a stereotype and racism ban hammer of sorts.

Well yes, why shouldn't you be criticized for that?

Almost like people have gone overboard with being offended to the point where if somebody suggests things aren't 100% equal in skill, traits, physical aspects and everything between the races in different places you'll just set some people's brains to short-circuit and fry with anger.

...

Would you like to explain yourself better? Because you seem to be implying that you're a racist, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and let you apologize/explain if this statement was just a mistake.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

On the subject of racism is this actual racism (people of certain races being beaten and specifically refused jobs for religious or ethnic reasons) or the accused racism for not having absolutely every job with absolute representation of all groups equally despite the proportions of people in the area and applying for such jobs and other such nonsense where joking about a stereotype equals instant racism or various other things.

Her father is a known anti-Semite and Holocaust denier, and the Front National attracts a lot of far-right extremists which are more or less openly racist (there were some Neo-Nazis IIRC).
Marine Le Pen tried for several years to hide these bad apples and "un-demonize" the FN (If this even means something).

Whose father? I find it very odd a holocaust denier would have any weight but that does fit with the anti-Semite (anti-jewish) agenda.

Marine Le Pen's father, Jean-Marie Le Pen. He had a lot of weight in the political balance, and almost beat Jacques Chirac back in the 2002 presidential elections.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

On the subject of racism is this actual racism (people of certain races being beaten and specifically refused jobs for religious or ethnic reasons) or the accused racism for not having absolutely every job with absolute representation of all groups equally despite the proportions of people in the area and applying for such jobs and other such nonsense where joking about a stereotype equals instant racism or various other things.

Her father is a known anti-Semite and Holocaust denier, and the Front National attracts a lot of far-right extremists which are more or less openly racist (there were some Neo-Nazis IIRC).
Marine Le Pen tried for several years to hide these bad apples and "un-demonize" the FN (If this even means something).

Whose father? I find it very odd a holocaust denier would have any weight but that does fit with the anti-Semite (anti-jewish) agenda.

Personally I don't understand neo-nazis and how they crop up anywhere outside of Germany. Didn't the original Nazis think of anybody not german and not Aryan as sub-human. If you're French and supporting this it seems like you're supporting a group that didn't support you. I just don't understand. Or is being a neo-Nazi more about pro-white? I've heard lots of weird neo-Nazi groups (including a homosexual Russian neo-Nazi group) and many of them sound like they're made by groups of people with lower than average intelligence.

You have to forgive me if I don't always believe the racism route as I've heard people complain about racist words, depictions and so on that ends up being fairly mild by my tastes. Some days it feels like if you're white and you joke about middle eastern people driving taxis you'll get a stereotype and racism ban hammer of sorts. Almost like people have gone overboard with being offended to the point where if somebody suggests things aren't 100% equal in skill, traits, physical aspects and everything between the races in different places you'll just set some people's brains to short-circuit and fry with anger.

Neo Nazis geneally have strong anti Semitic feelings ala Hitler and his loveable bunch of scamps.

Neo Nazis

Well I find it odd that they'd have so much weight then. I don't think the usa has crazy groups with so much power. Certainly everybody heading that group can't all be that bad. It'd be hard to believe any group with such odd ideals coming to power.

I always thought neo-nazis were like Nazis in that they just didn't like anybody that wasn't white and possibly not german. I mean Nazis felt non-germans were inferior so it's an odd idea to want to join a group which hates you.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Well I find it odd that they'd have so much weight then. I don't think the usa has crazy groups with so much power. Certainly everybody heading that group can't all be that bad. It'd be hard to believe any group with such odd ideals coming to power.

These are not official ideals. In recent days, most of the racism outbursts came from various minor FN personalities who "slipped" by comparing black people to monkeys or establishing a list of Muslim children in their town, etc.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Well I find it odd that they'd have so much weight then. I don't think the usa has crazy groups with so much power. Certainly everybody heading that group can't all be that bad. It'd be hard to believe any group with such odd ideals coming to power.

I always thought neo-nazis were like Nazis in that they just didn't like anybody that wasn't white and possibly not german. I mean Nazis felt non-germans were inferior so it's an odd idea to want to join a group which hates you.

People do funny things when scared or pressured or they have had enough of the status quo.
I'd hazard a guess that FN in France are now getting votes from generally intelligent and and sane citizens. The true knuckle draggers were always voting for FN.

text removed.

reds8n

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Well I find it odd that they'd have so much weight then. I don't think the usa has crazy groups with so much power.

Tea Party?

I mean, you have a legitimate chance that your next President will be Looney Trump. Need I say more?

Not sure what you expected to happen other than that. After some horribly, horribly led socialist years that caused huge problems in the country itself and drastically weakened the economy /and/ the islamistic terrorist attacks, this was bound to happen.

 treslibras wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Well I find it odd that they'd have so much weight then. I don't think the usa has crazy groups with so much power.

Tea Party?

If Tea Party is considered "crazy groups"... then they've been quite tame (other than fueling the rise of Republicanism during Obama's tenure).

I mean, you have a legitimate chance that your next President will be Looney Trump. Need I say more?

Trump doesn't really conform to a typical US politician... he's simply a *Media Personality* running for President.

Would it be crazy if he actually won? You betcha. Does he have a chance? I don't think so....

As for the NF in France... I wonder if it's more of a reaction to the Paris attack AND the voters rejecting the current ruling party than a desire to put NF in charge...

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I've heard lots of weird neo-Nazi groups (including a homosexual Russian neo-Nazi group) and many of them sound like they're made by groups of people with lower than average intelligence.

If you think the Russian gay Nazis are weird, you haven't even seen the Russian Communist Nazis yet...

Marx, Stalin and Hitler are all turning around in their graves with horror

Also in Russia: A liberal party that advocates collectivisation and state ownership of the means of production, a communist party that has allied itself with the church and a leftist progressive party that is racist and anti-immigration. And people still wonder why Russians vote for Putin