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 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
What do you guys propose should be done with refugees fleeing ISIS genocide?

Send them back?

Apparently the only help we can offer is the kind that explodes and kills everyone nearby.

Yes, UN safe zone communities have been done before and successfully. However, we also must declare war on ISIS and frack them up so hard, they realize they should have never been born. They want the Wrath of God then give it to them, Reign fire on them. But, since we have a an apologist $uss$ for a president it'll never happen.

How did that Shock and Awe work out last time?

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I agree (beatnik pacifist scum that I am) that we need to do more to stop the war.
Send in troops.

Whose troops?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da Boss wrote:
AND take care of the refugees from the crisis like human friggin' beings.

We are taking care of the refugees. We can send more food, supplies, medical assistance, etc. The only objection to Syrian refugees is that we do not have any soft of system to detect hostile infiltrators who have threatened to carry out terrorist attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da Boss wrote:
I agree that the situation is far from ideal - emigration is devastating for the countries afflicted (I'm Irish, we know all about it).

Thank you for taking up the mantle and speaking on behalf of the Irish community...

A UN force of troops from different nations is the best idea with regard to troops.

The problem of infiltrators is a real one, alright, but it is just not a good enough reason to close the door to refugees.

And you are welcome - I'm happy to speak for the Irish community on Dakka whenever you want. (Seriously, are you going to argue that emigration has historically been a positive for Ireland?!)

When improperly done it does not make for an effective bludgeon. If your going to "Shock and Awe" or "Reign Fire" you don't tie one hand behind your back. You show your enemy not only was he wrong to challenge you, but that he had no chance EVER. Playing patty cake in the sand only makes him think he had a chance. If our leadership wasn't so weak they'd be less incline to do anything.


Question: Why aren't middle eastern christian refugees allowed entry?

Well, it's the same in Belgium. Recent events were kinda gold for the NVA, that is exactly the same (if not worse) than FN in France.

I don't think it's just a matter of fear, but also a feeling of "having enough with it". People know politicians in charge are useless, so they give their vote to someone else who was out of power for a very long time.

Holland? Sarkozy? You seriously expect people choosing only one of those? FN is the answer; not Holland and PS, not Sarkozy and its UMP (changing the name doesn't mean they're not the same thing than before).

And yes, it will make things worse (not, Right Wing isn't right but obviously there are a lot of people wanting to believe their lies). But then, History likes to repeat itself...

Won't be surprised if the next war comes in a near future. Ignorance is spreading fast, unfortunately.

 Sarouan wrote:
Ignorance is spreading fast, unfortunately.

Is it Ignorance that given the opportunity these many of the refugees would persecute other Muslims for not following their pure version of Islam? Or, that they support the death of all other religions and infidels even if they don't want to pull the trigger themselves?

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
Ignorance is spreading fast, unfortunately.

Is it Ignorance that given the opportunity these many of the refugees would persecute other Muslims for not following their pure version of Islam? Or, that they support the death of all other religions and infidels even if they don't want to pull the trigger themselves?

Isn't "Refugees are all terrorists" on the Dakka Bingo already ?

Not sure what dakka bingo is....

But would supporting terrorist actions make you a terrorist? let me ask you this. Nazi sympathizers are they/were they just as bad as the Nazi's or not?

Wait what ? How could refugees all support terrorists if they're fleeing from them ?


+ Dakka Bingo :



It is outdated though.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


And once the refugees have been integrated and Keynesian economic effects have been included? Then what? You're talking up all the costs while completely ignoring the economic advantages.

The cost of such a project are so high that it will take generations to even, in an ideal situation, get close to "getting back" what was paid for. The problem with applying Keynes in this case is the German welfare system that pays people for...just being there. Rent, food, electricity, water, etc. That's why immigration needs to be controlled. There are extremely qualified refugees who were doctors or scientists back in their home. Pay more attention to /those/ people! They are high priority immigrants because they will gladly integrate and appreciate getting back into their former job, in another country. That is money well spent. Controlled immigration is good immigration and that also goes along with refugees. Create safe zones and then, properly, work through them, prioritizing those that are most beneficial. Yes, that will mean living in, compared to ours, poor living conditions, but that still is far better than the life they fled from.

 LethalShade wrote:
Wait what ? How could refugees all support terrorists if they're fleeing from them ?

I never said ALL

I stated:

"Or, that they support the death of all other religions and infidels even if they don't want to pull the trigger themselves?"


To support something you only need to believe that what someone else does is right or just? Thus, you are just as bad/evil as they are.

so I asked...Nazi sympathizers are they/were they just as bad as the Nazi's or not?

If yes then ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS THE IDEAL OF GENOCIDE for religion is as bad as a terrorist even if they have zero desire to pull the trigger themselves.

Just as Nazi sympathizers by supporting the Nazi's are just as guilty of the Holocaust.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yGN8SlIEZ8

she might as well be a terrorist. she supports death.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:
Wait what ? How could refugees all support terrorists if they're fleeing from them ?

I never said ALL

I stated:

"Or, that they support the death of all other religions and infidels even if they don't want to pull the trigger themselves?"


To support something you only need to believe that what someone else does is right or just? Thus, you are just as bad/evil as they are.

so I asked...Nazi sympathizers are they/were they just as bad as the Nazi's or not?

If yes then ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS THE IDEAL OF GENOCIDE for religion is as bad as a terrorist even if they have zero desire to pull the trigger themselves.

Just as Nazi sympathizers by supporting the Nazi's are just as guilty of the Holocaust.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yGN8SlIEZ8

she might as well be a terrorist. she supports death.

So what ? Prison or death penalty for everyone ?

 LethalShade wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:
Wait what ? How could refugees all support terrorists if they're fleeing from them ?

I never said ALL

I stated:

"Or, that they support the death of all other religions and infidels even if they don't want to pull the trigger themselves?"


To support something you only need to believe that what someone else does is right or just? Thus, you are just as bad/evil as they are.

so I asked...Nazi sympathizers are they/were they just as bad as the Nazi's or not?

If yes then ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS THE IDEAL OF GENOCIDE for religion is as bad as a terrorist even if they have zero desire to pull the trigger themselves.

Just as Nazi sympathizers by supporting the Nazi's are just as guilty of the Holocaust.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yGN8SlIEZ8

she might as well be a terrorist. she supports death.

So what ? Prison or death penalty for everyone ?

I never suggested that.

 LethalShade wrote:
Wait what ? How could refugees all support terrorists if they're fleeing from them ?


+ Dakka Bingo :

Spoiler:

It is outdated though.

Try this. I think Ouze does it.
http://www.grimdarkforge.com/bingo/

Automatically randomizes too.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:


I never suggested that.

I know, I'm just too tired to argue properly and refrain myself from exaggerating.

For me it's one of the questions society needs too but can't fully answer.

Other than to fell good about ourselves and to say we did a good thing, why are we welcoming a can of bees into our countries? Why is it ok to risk peoples lives to feel good about ourselves, saying its a just sacrifice for freedom? whose sacrifice yours, mine, or some random person on the street? Is your life worth importing someone who wants genocide or supports death on a genocidal scale? What ratio of peaceful Muslim vs. non-peaceful Muslim makes the risk ok?

Neither of us have the answer, but at the end of the day I enjoy a good argument.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

Why is it ok to risk peoples lives to feel good about ourselves, saying its a just sacrifice for freedom? w

Because doing otherwise is exactly playing the game of terrorists, that's why. They want us to be afraid, to change our way of life and our beliefs. If we do, they are winning.

Killing them to the last? What's the point if you give them even more followers by acting like the monsters they're saying we are?

It's when we stop acting like humans that humanity is lost. IMHO, of course...but still, I believe more people should have this in mind more often, nowadays.

 Sarouan wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

Why is it ok to risk peoples lives to feel good about ourselves, saying its a just sacrifice for freedom? w

Because doing otherwise is exactly playing the game of terrorists, that's why. They want us to be afraid, to change our way of life and our beliefs. If we do, they are winning.

Killing them to the last? What's the point if you give them even more followers by acting like the monsters they're saying we are?

It's when we stop acting like humans that humanity is lost. IMHO, of course...but still, I believe more people should have this in mind more often, nowadays.

Except that will do nothing to stop them. It will not stop their flow of recruits. It will just allow them to get stronger, to continue radicalizing the local population, spread into more neighboring countries, and slowly take over those countries. Then they will have more freedom to radicalize people living here in the West and/or send more terrorists to infiltrate us.

I didn't say we have to just watch them doing what they want. But the day people will understand we are all on the same planet and that the troubles of others are actually affecting us in the end will be a great day. Sure, you could stay safe in your rich, safe country while thinking everything outside of it doesn't concern you, but there will be a time that way of thinking will have a price. This is just the beginning.

And no, I don't think bombing everything is the right solution. This will just make them right in their beliefs. You should ask why they manage to find young people ready to die for their cause. This isn't just brainwashing - to be ready to die is like having nothing to lose in this life and everything to gain with their death.

It gives a lot of desperation - or wish of redemption - to come to that ending.

But yeah, you can just say "feth this, let's put all our rage on innocent people trying to find a better life elsewhere". It will not solve anything, however.

 Sarouan wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

Why is it ok to risk peoples lives to feel good about ourselves, saying its a just sacrifice for freedom? w

Because doing otherwise is exactly playing the game of terrorists, that's why. They want us to be afraid, to change our way of life and our beliefs. If we do, they are winning.

Killing them to the last? What's the point if you give them even more followers by acting like the monsters they're saying we are?

It's when we stop acting like humans that humanity is lost. IMHO, of course...but still, I believe more people should have this in mind more often, nowadays.

There are other options that worked I the past, so again. Why risk someone else's life, It's easy to risk your own life out of bravery, but can you live with the responsibility that you caused peoples death? How about if children were to die for that belief?

Oh and refugees have been historically refused entry in this country before.

No one ever said we need to ignore them, hate them, or not help them. We're just saying not here.

 Da Boss wrote:
A UN force of troops from different nations is the best idea with regard to troops.

And which nations will have the impartiality and expertise to navigate and restore order between Syria, Turkey, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, France, UK, USA, Iraq, the Kurds, ISIS, and all those other wonderful state actors?

Do you think that Russia will accept a UN security force and not use their veto?

Will the UN have another opportunity to spread Cholera among a refugee population?

 Da Boss wrote:
The problem of infiltrators is a real one, alright, but it is just not a good enough reason to close the door to refugees.

The calls have been to establish actual screenings for refugees. Instead of actually addressing legitimate concerns the counter has been that dissenters are scared of orphans and women. No serious calls have advocated for just closing the doors. That sort of false dilemma helps no one.

 Da Boss wrote:
And you are welcome - I'm happy to speak for the Irish community on Dakka whenever you want. (Seriously, are you going to argue that emigration has historically been a positive for Ireland?!)

You're claiming special authority to speak on a matter merely because of your country of origin, that is what is being objected to. Don't try and deflect.

My wife has family in sweden. That country has been destroyed by "refugees". Rape, murder, general destruction.
And all because the people can't speak out against these animals that have flooded the country.

 Breotan wrote:
It's hard to blame people for adopting protectionist attitudes.

In the same way it's hard to to blame people for throwing water on a grease fire. I understand why people do it, but it's still tragically ignorant and dangerous.

bound for glory wrote:
My wife has family in sweden. That country has been destroyed by "refugees". Rape, murder, general destruction.
And all because the people can't speak out against these animals that have flooded the country.

Citation needed?

bound for glory wrote:
My wife has family in sweden. That country has been destroyed by "refugees". Rape, murder, general destruction.
And all because the people can't speak out against these animals that have flooded the country.

If you're so worried about us, how about you stop stalling and take more of the refugees?

Our country's being destroyed? Good to know, we didn't notice.

bound for glory wrote:
My wife has family in sweden. That country has been destroyed by "refugees". Rape, murder, general destruction.
And all because the people can't speak out against these animals that have flooded the country.

And if they bite you, you become a refugee too ?

So I guess we're taking Sweden off the map now it's gone?

bound for glory wrote:
My wife has family in sweden. That country has been destroyed by "refugees". Rape, murder, general destruction.
And all because the people can't speak out against these animals that have flooded the country.

???

How can someone writes such words ?! O_O'

Ragnarok is coming ? Does that means the sweddish are running away on drakkars to invade one more time Europe ? (in this way, are they invaders or refugees too ?)

What a good atmosphere near Xmas in approach...

Serviteur,

Morikun

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:

bound for glory wrote:
My wife has family in sweden. That country has been destroyed by "refugees". Rape, murder, general destruction.
And all because the people can't speak out against these animals that have flooded the country.

Citation needed?

Mostly Germany but one Sweden article. there was more when I searched Sweden Crime increase


http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6527/migrants-rape-germany

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/10/germans-forced-from-their-homes-to-make-way-for-muslim-migrants

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6668/germany-migrant-crime-wave

http://pamelageller.com/2015/09/germany-must-separate-christians-from-muslim-migrants-as-violent-attacks-surge.html/

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls_iQusP9BY


the list go on and on.....

I'm sure these are just Cultural Misunderstandings.....Isolated Incidents

bound for glory wrote:
My wife has family in sweden. That country has been destroyed by "refugees". Rape, murder, general destruction.
And all because the people can't speak out against these animals that have flooded the country.

I was all ready to go off like a bomb on your statement, but then i looked up the figures.

Sweden is about the highest per capita of refugees. the closest seems to be germany with another 50 natives per refugee.

Maybe sweden is experiencing the troubles of absorbing too many people from wartorn countries at once.