The Rise of The National Front in France

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**Psienesis**

Crass said all that needed to be said about National Front in 1977...

Spoiler:

... spoilered for video with NSFW lyrics. It's Crass, what else were you expecting?

**Morikun**

Yaba-daba-dooo !! ^^

My Dear Fellowes,

I am very proud and very happy to inform you that the 2nd round of the french regional elections has ended tonight... an the front national has been totally erased !! He looses all the regions he might win !!

No region will belongs to the FN and this is a very good new for the french democracy !!

As I said before (contrary to Godardc who tried to confuse you), the FN never has been the 1st party in France and will never !!

So, try again FN... and loose again !!

How I would like all FN supporters open their eyes and see that they would never build any democracy on hate, fear and racism basis...

Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité pour toujours !!

Serviteur,

Morikun

**Minx**

Morikun wrote:
I am very proud and very happy to inform you that the 2nd round of the french regional elections has ended tonight... an the front national has been totally erased !! He looses all the regions he might win !!

No region will belongs to the FN and this is a very good new for the french democracy !!
...
Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité pour toujours !!

Good news indeed. Well done France!

**Laughing Man**

While I'd normally say gloating is unbecoming, the FN really is rather slimy...

**Sigvatr**

Good news: FN is out.

Bad news: This was only possible because of another party gaming the system.

Really on the fence on this one. We can agree that the FN is, mostly, consisting of idiots and better not being at the power. On the other hand, it's not a good sign if you can only force them out of the elections by undemocratic methods.

**Frazzled**

Maybe you should addres their concerns.

**jhe90**

Now you need to tackle what feeds them.

Adress the issues they obviously are making traction on and are resonating with people as if they did not this would not happen..

, and only trickery kept them out. Still massive problems at Calais, UK truckers are basically calling it a warzone at times. Tunnel has had to become a fortress, port too.

Its a victory, but the war is all still to play for. There a long way from defeated.

**LordofHats**

Sigvatr wrote:
Good news: FN is out.

Bad news: This was only possible because of another party gaming the system.

Really on the fence on this one. We can agree that the FN is, mostly, consisting of idiots and better not being at the power. On the other hand, it's not a good sign if you can only force them out of the elections by undemocratic methods.

We have our obscure party dynamics here in the US, that have largely prevented political radicals from gaining traction in general elections at the national level (why most of our Presidential and Congressional elections in particular are usually between political moderates, regardless of how people mud sling). It's not very democratic, but pure democracies have a tendency to spiral into madness. Arguably, a pinch of undemocratic power gaming infuses a degree of harsh pragmatism into a system that left to its own devices tends to be self destructive.

EDIT: To borrow a phrase, Democracy dies when people lose all sense. Some things that would otherwise be distasteful can be useful as a means to prevent such an outcome.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Sigvatr wrote:
Good news: FN is out.

Bad news: This was only possible because of another party gaming the system.

Really on the fence on this one. We can agree that the FN is, mostly, consisting of idiots and better not being at the power. On the other hand, it's not a good sign if you can only force them out of the elections by undemocratic methods.

As far as I understood they got ousted because the Socialist party, realizing that they wouldn't win, encouraged their voters to vote for Republican candidates to keep the FN out. If the Republicans get more votes, how is that undemocratic?

**Da Boss**

It's not solving the problem of the FN increasing support, so that still needs to be addressed.

I think a bigger question is the shocking amount of apathy and cynicism among the french population which allows the FN to prosper.

Glad they didn't increase their grip though. But this "gaming" of the system will feed the anger and resentment of FN voters.

Shameful on Sarkozy to accept votes from the Socialists but to refuse to take part in the pact in seats where socialists were likely to beat a FN candidate. Did he backtrack on that? He's a slimeball nearly as odious as Le Penn.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

As I understand it, the Socialist Left was almost wiped out, forcing Leftists to vote tactically for mainstream conservatives. They might not have taken power themselves, but I think the Front Nationale can see that as a small victory, because they've shifted French politics closer to their end of the spectrum.

Now the question remains, will the French government bother to tackle the issues that have fed into the FN's rise? Or will they continue to allow political correctness to obstruct national interest?

The Front Nationale are not the real problem here, they are the symptom of the backlash against the failure of Left Wing policies.

**LethalShade**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
As I understand it, the Socialist Left was almost wiped out, forcing Leftists to vote tactically for mainstream conservatives. They might not have taken power themselves, but I think the Front Nationale can see that as a small victory, because they've shifted French politics closer to their end of the spectrum.

Actually the Socialist Party and the Republican-UDI alliance both took/kept 7 regions. Nobody really won or lose these elections.

What's baffling though is the percentage of non-voters (50% for the first round, around 40% for the second one).

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Nothing baffling about it. People are so disillusioned with mainstream politics that they're either turning to fringe parties, or they're just not bothering to vote. We're seeing the same thing to a lesser degree in Britain.

The established parties in Britain, France and elsewhere have been an abject failure in the last decade.

**Sigvatr**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

As far as I understood they got ousted because the Socialist party, realizing that they wouldn't win, encouraged their voters to vote for Republican candidates to keep the FN out. If the Republicans get more votes, how is that undemocratic?

A representative democracy is intended to allow people to vote for the people they want to see in charge. Gaming the system by, at the last second, withdrawing most candidates people wanted to see / vote for and thus forcing them to vote for another mainstream party, you nullify their intended votes. This is undemocratic as you are denied the vote you intended to do and are forced to redirect it another party indirectly chose.

Now, the end result, as I said, is good, but I'm not sure if a good result justifies abusing / exploiting the system. In the end, the belief in democracy is what keeps the system working and it's already fading with voting participation in the main EU countries being at an all-time low.

**Morikun**

You're absolutely right : If we can say that Democracy is a little saved, We must pay attention to the fact that the Right won just because the Left called to vote for the other side.

We'va got a real problem in France with politic men who only search for being elected and don't work for the French People...

Sarkozy is nothing but the shame avatar : while the Left called to vote for the Right in territories threatten by the FN, he refused to do so... Fortunately he was not entire obeyed but the facts are here.

Democracy could make that the Right could win the nextpresidential elections... But everything but Sarkozy !!

Serviteur,

Morikun

**LordofHats**

I'd argue it's only really undemocratic if we assume political parties don't have rights of their own, namely the right to put forward and withdraw candidates of their own volition. On the one hand, that right means that parties can deny the people the ability to pick who they want, but at the same time we can't really compel someone/ones to put forward candidates they don't want.

It was most certainly gaming the system, but I think it's a leap to assume that is automatically undemocratic. Politicians and political parties have rights as well.

**Dropbear Victim**

LordofHats wrote:
I'd argue it's only really undemocratic if we assume political parties don't have rights of their own, namely the right to put forward and withdraw candidates of their own volition. On the one hand, that right means that parties can deny the people the ability to pick who they want, but at the same time we can't really compel someone/ones to put forward candidates they don't want.

It was most certainly gaming the system, but I think it's a leap to assume that is automatically undemocratic. Politicians and political parties have rights as well.

But do political parties rights trump the rights of the electorate?

**Sigvatr**

LordofHats wrote:

It was most certainly gaming the system, but I think it's a leap to assume that is automatically undemocratic. Politicians and political parties have rights as well.

RIght are not responsibilities. In a democratic system, parties are supposed to serve the public, not the other way around. Promoting anything but this as a party undermines the political principle modern states are built upon.

**AlmightyWalrus**

So when the party realizes that they're not going to win, they go into damage control and attempt to serve the public by lessening as much of the damage they percieve will be done as possible. How is that undemocratic?

**LordofHats**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So when the party realizes that they're not going to win, they go into damage control and attempt to serve the public by lessening as much of the damage they percieve will be done as possible. How is that undemocratic?

^^^ This

Everyone has responsibilities, and certainly some matter more than others, but societies ability to force responsibility is limited. Usually we judge that issue by what is considered best for the public good, but what bests serves the public good is often a matter of opinion as much as fact. Politicians and political parties do not lose their right to self determination by sheer virtue of being political. Especially given the size of a modern state, we can't really operate via direct democracy, which is why we have parties in the first place.

Further, I'd argue that parties do not serve the public interest, nor is it their responsibility. Parties serve their own interest, namely to get their members elected so said members can serve the public interest in whatever way the party/member feels is best. Parties exist in representative systems to leverage and broker power between the political elite, which sounds exactly like what happened in this election. Power was brokered by parties who realized that something bad was about to happen, so they pushed their support to a group that they viewed would prevent that end.

**jhe90**

Ignore them all you want however if you do not tackle the root cause that they feed off they will be back....

They still have alot of support, and the situation there using is not going away any time soon. Calais is a warzone at times, hundreds still land on Greece daily.

There not gone by a long shot.

**Frazzled**

jhe90 wrote:
Ignore them all you want however if you do not tackle the root cause that they feed off they will be back....

They still have alot of support, and the situation there using is not going away any time soon. Calais is a warzone at times, hundreds still land on Greece daily.

There not gone by a long shot.

More info on this "Calais is a warzone" thing? I'm constantly told Europe is a haven of safety, not like Evilz America.

**Morikun**

Yeah. That's right : we have a big problem about wath we call the "Jungle of Calais".

The great idea of Sarkozy (when he was our President), was to close it destroying poor houses here. "If we destroy it, immignants would run away"...

But the main problem that immigrants never wanted to stay in France : they always wanted to go to the UK or Scandinavia. The problem is the same and immigrants are still here... But they don't have temporarly houses.

This is a big shame for us... for France... the "Land of the Man Rights"...

Serviteur,

Morikun

**jhe90**

All the trouble from the jungle migrant camps near Calais. Population is now near 7000, trying to enter uk by breaking into trucks, caravans or force access to tunnel and port by breaching security to enter UK to claim asylum.

Truckers routinely run gauntlets of migrants trying to force on board, some have had rocks thrown at windows, uk has spent millions to bolster security, every night groups are trying to enter uk to claim asylum, only to do so you have to "break in"

Regular running battles with truckers, cops, migrants, tear gas and riot police often are deployed to stop them.

Camp is growing from 1,500 early summer to 7000 now, very few getting through. Camp population is growing daily, too many people stokes trouble. UK put up a massive set of fencing, miles of razor wire and steel barriers, people come but less leave.

Jungle is a illegal camp French tolerate near Calais on old waste ground. Kept alive by small charities, food, clothes, build shelters etc. Its a slum.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Frazzled wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
Ignore them all you want however if you do not tackle the root cause that they feed off they will be back....

They still have alot of support, and the situation there using is not going away any time soon. Calais is a warzone at times, hundreds still land on Greece daily.

There not gone by a long shot.

More info on this "Calais is a warzone" thing? I'm constantly told Europe is a haven of safety, not like Evilz America.

Whoever told you that is a liar.

**jhe90**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
Ignore them all you want however if you do not tackle the root cause that they feed off they will be back....

They still have alot of support, and the situation there using is not going away any time soon. Calais is a warzone at times, hundreds still land on Greece daily.

There not gone by a long shot.

More info on this "Calais is a warzone" thing? I'm constantly told Europe is a haven of safety, not like Evilz America.

Whoever told you that is a liar.

EU wants you to think that...

In real life we can be just as fethed up as USA with less guns!

**LethalShade**

jhe90 wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
Ignore them all you want however if you do not tackle the root cause that they feed off they will be back....

They still have alot of support, and the situation there using is not going away any time soon. Calais is a warzone at times, hundreds still land on Greece daily.

There not gone by a long shot.

More info on this "Calais is a warzone" thing? I'm constantly told Europe is a haven of safety, not like Evilz America.

Whoever told you that is a liar.

EU wants you to think that...

In real life we can be just as fethed up as USA with less guns!

Come near Paris, you'll doubt about the "less guns" part.

**jhe90**

LethalShade wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
Ignore them all you want however if you do not tackle the root cause that they feed off they will be back....

They still have alot of support, and the situation there using is not going away any time soon. Calais is a warzone at times, hundreds still land on Greece daily.

There not gone by a long shot.

More info on this "Calais is a warzone" thing? I'm constantly told Europe is a haven of safety, not like Evilz America.

Whoever told you that is a liar.

EU wants you to think that...

In real life we can be just as fethed up as USA with less guns!

Come near Paris, you'll doubt about the "less guns" part.

OK , so we are just as fethed..... No wonder Paris is currently got security on extreme setting.

**Frazzled**

This is why if you don't address their concerns the revolution will come. Its a weird day when I agree completely with Robert Reich:

The Revolt of the Anxious Class
Posted: 12/14/2015 4:03 pm EST Updated: 12/14/2015 4:59 pm EST
MIDDLE CLASS SHRINKING

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The great American middle class has become an anxious class -- and it's in revolt.

Before I explain how that revolt is playing out, you need to understand the sources of the anxiety.

Start with the fact that the middle class is shrinking, according to a new Pew survey.

The odds of falling into poverty are frighteningly high, especially for the majority without college degrees.

Two-thirds of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Most could lose their jobs at any time.

Many are part of a burgeoning "on-demand" workforce -- employed as needed, paid whatever they can get whenever they can get it.

Yet if they don't keep up with rent or mortgage payments, or can't pay for groceries or utilities, they'll lose their footing.

The stress is taking a toll. For the first time in history, the lifespans of middle-class whites are dropping.

According to research by the recent Nobel-prize winning economist, Angus Deaton, and his co-researcher Anne Case, middle-aged white men and women in the United States have been dying earlier.

They're poisoning themselves with drugs and alcohol, or committing suicide.

The odds of being gunned down in America by a jihadist are far smaller than the odds of such self-inflicted deaths, but the recent tragedy in San Bernadino only heightens an overwhelming sense of arbitrariness and fragility.

The anxious class feels vulnerable to forces over which they have no control. Terrible things happen for no reason.

Yet government can't be counted on to protect them.

Safety nets are full of holes. Most people who lose their jobs don't even qualify for unemployment insurance.

Government won't protect their jobs from being outsourced to Asia or being taken by a worker here illegally.

Government can't even protect them from evil people with guns or bombs. Which is why the anxious class is arming itself, buying guns at a record rate.

They view government as not so much incompetent as not giving a damn. It's working for the big guys and fat cats -- the crony capitalists who bankroll candidates and get special favors in return.

When I visited so-called "red" states this fall, I kept hearing angry complaints that government is run by Wall Street bankers who get bailed out after wreaking havoc on the economy, corporate titans who get cheap labor, and billionaires who get tax loopholes.

Last year two highly-respected political scientists, Martin Gilens and Benjamin Page, took a close look at 1,799 policy decisions Congress made over the course of over twenty years, and who influenced those decisions.

Their conclusion: "The preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy."

It was only a matter of time before the anxious class would revolt.

They'd support a strongman who'd promise to protect them from all the chaos.

Who'd save jobs from being shipped abroad, slam Wall Street, stick it to China, get rid of people here illegally, and block terrorists from getting into America.

A strongman who'd make America great again -- which really means make average working people safe again.

It was a pipe dream, of course -- a conjurer's trick. No single person can do this. The world is far too complex. You can't build a wall along the Mexican border. You can't keep out all Muslims. You can't stop corporations from outsourcing abroad.

Nor should you even try.

Besides, we live in a messy democracy, not a dictatorship.

Still, they think maybe he's smart enough and tough enough to pull it off. He's rich. He tells it like it is.

He makes every issue a test of personal strength. He calls himself strong and his adversaries weak.

So what if he's crude and rude? Maybe that's what it takes to protect average people in this cruelly precarious world.

For years I've heard the rumbles of the anxious class. I've listened to their growing anger -- in union halls and bars, in coal mines and beauty parlors, on the Main Streets and byways of the washed-out backwaters of America.

I've heard their complaints and cynicism, their conspiracy theories and their outrage.

Most are good people, not bigots or racists. They work hard and they have a strong sense of fairness.

But their world has been slowly coming apart. And they're scared and fed up.

Now someone comes along who's even more of a bully than those who for years have bullied them economically, politically, and even violently.

The attraction is understandable, even though misguided.

If not Donald Trump, then it will be someone else posing as a strongman. If not this election cycle, it will be the next one.

The revolt of the anxious class has just begun.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Frazzled wrote:
More info on this "Calais is a warzone" thing? I'm constantly told Europe is a haven of safety, not like Evilz America.

I think the word you were looking for is “Switzerland”. As in “Switzerland is a haven of safety”.