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So, I was just curious what character people think is the strongest in the game among the big heroes like Marneus Calgar, Ghazghkull Thraka, Abaddon, Logan Grimnar and the like? (Sorry for not making a poll or listing all of them.. I dont know what all the big strong heroes/champions from each army is..)

I vote Draigo. He takes the fight to the warp and comes back from time to time unharmed

Horus
Prove me wrong

commander dante wrote:
Horus
Prove me wrong

He died and was easily swayed by Chaos, proving how weak of a character he was when it mattered most.

Horus unfortunately does not exist in the 40k game as a useable character.. So he dosent realy count..

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

commander dante wrote:
Horus
Prove me wrong

He died and was easily swayed by Chaos, proving how weak of a character he was when it mattered most.

This Was posted in the 40k General Discussion, not 40k Background
I posted in crunch terms


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Merellin wrote:
Horus unfortunately does not exist in the 40k game as a useable character.. So he dosent realy count..

Pretty Sure he has rules

Yes, but his rules are for 30k, not 40k. While the systems are compatible, they're not the same.

Honest.

Game wise, wasn't it calculated that Abaddon could actually carve his way through everyone ever?

commander dante wrote:

Merellin wrote:
Horus unfortunately does not exist in the 40k game as a useable character.. So he dosent realy count..

Pretty Sure he has rules

He has rule for 30K, but those are not intended for use in 40K (he is canonically loooooong dead after all). In terms of rules in 30K he is incredibly strong.

nudibranch wrote:

commander dante wrote:

Merellin wrote:
Horus unfortunately does not exist in the 40k game as a useable character.. So he dosent realy count..

Pretty Sure he has rules

He has rule for 30K, but those are not intended for use in 40K (he is canonically loooooong dead after all). In terms of rules in 30K he is incredibly strong.

OP didnt specify if it was 30k or 40k

Abaddon by fluff is ment to be chaos lord +1 empowered by 4 chaos powers.

A 10,000 year old former elite marine, first captain, lead honour guard, basically one of best of legion and only gained more power/experience.

Breaking 40k time frame, the mega ork da beast of the heresy, one bigger than gazy....

He shouldn't have to specify not 30k, they are different game systems. 30k point pricing is totally different to 40k, with weapons over ap 3 being criminally cheap due to the amount of armour within the setting would be devastatingly effective in 40k. Not to mention the price of a single legionaire being similar to a Kabalite warrior....

Compatible systems, but the two games were never balanced with each other in mind.

I believe the strongest character crunch wise is abandon, I remember a thread ages ago which mathhammered out the fight between him an all the other heavy hitters and he won all of them under normal circumstances. That would probably still hold true.

Ciaphas Cain.

Models with rules, eh?

Imperial fluff: it's probably a contest between the big three: Calgar, Dante and Grimnar. Draigo has done some pretty crazy stuff, so might be above them, but since he hangs out in the warp he isn't really that active anymore.

Imperial Crunch: someone else can do the math, but I imagine it would be between Draigo, Calgar and Grimnar.

Chaos fluff: if we include 30k, Horus. If not, Abaddon. Primarchs heed his call, and he is blessed by all four gods. If you include daemons, anggrath spanks Abaddon, not sure about Horus.

Chaos crunch: same as the fluff section.

Xenos fluff: all races in one pool? Ghazgkull.

Xenos Crunch: Ghazgkull. Is Jain Zarr ap2? Maybe her.

I'm going to say either Lysander or Arjac Rockfist for the imperium as they are the only natural S5 characters that I know of. Thus the strongest as everyone else tops out at S4 without equipment boosts.

I would think Jain Zar must be a serious contender crunch wise. The combination of reducing her opponents weapon skill and initiative by 5 and disarming their best melee weapon (not many seem to have multiple AP2 weapons) seems like it would be pretty tough to beat. And yes, her blade of destruction is AP2.

negasmurf wrote:
I would think Jain Zar must be a serious contender crunch wise. The combination of reducing her opponents weapon skill and initiative by 5 and disarming their best melee weapon (not many seem to have multiple AP2 weapons) seems like it would be pretty tough to beat. And yes, her blade of destruction is AP2.

Horus Would Destroy her
Disable the Talon of Horus? Ok ill just Attack you with S10 AP1 Weapon
Disable Worldbreaker? Ok Ill just attack you with a AP2 Weapon THAT LOWERS YOUR S AND WS FOR EACH WOUND YOU TAKE
Not to forget he is WS8 S7 T6 and 6 Wounds AND A 3+ AGAINST ANYTHING THAT AFFECTS HIS STATS

commander dante wrote:
Horus Would Destroy her
Disable the Talon of Horus? Ok ill just Attack you with S10 AP1 Weapon
Disable Worldbreaker? Ok Ill just attack you with a AP2 Weapon THAT LOWERS YOUR S AND WS FOR EACH WOUND YOU TAKE
Not to forget he is WS8 S7 T6 and 6 Wounds AND A 3+ AGAINST ANYTHING THAT AFFECTS HIS STATS

Damn. I suppose he would. My excuse is that I know just this side of nothing about 30k. Are there any 40k characters that would have a realistic shot at taking any of the 30k major players? I got the impression that the two games and eras are not really compatible.

Mephiston is also naturally ST:5/T:5, at I:5 and WS:6. He jumps to ST:10 as well and has transfixing glare meaning he could feasibly hit on 2+ vs. any opponent provided he rolls high enough on the 2D6 check. He also has a force weapon that swings at ST:10 w/ a successful Psychic Cast, and is ML:3 with Adamantium Will (warlord trait). Plus he can cast Quickening (Primaris power) for +D3 Attacks and Initiative, and go with Force as well for Instant Death on his ST:10 swings for anything higher than T:5 he might fight.

He can also go with Biomancy for a shot at Iron Arm in-lieu of Sanguinary, or go with both Biomancy and one roll on Sanguinary for some crazy powerful combos with luck.

You could, in theory, have Mephiston with the following powers:

A melee character with ST:5/T:5 with Iron Arm for + 3 Strength and Toughness, boosted to ST:8/T:8 (ST:9 on the charge) with 4 base attacks, plus 1 for charging, and plus another 1 for being armed with a force sword and plasma pistol (6 total, 5 base). Now, let's say we also add in Warp Speed as well from Biomancy for +3 attacks and +3 initiative, boosting him to I:8 and 8 attacks total (9 attacks charging). Now let's ALSO add in one more roll on the Blood Angels Sanguinary discipline and kick it out for the Primaris of Quickening, which he can cast along with Iron Arm and Warp Speed for an additional D3 Initiative (Minimum I:9, capped at I:10) and Attacks, meaning he has 9 attacks minimum, 10 on the charge, and 12 with the maximum D:3 roll, bumping him up to the following stat line:

SUPER MEPHY!
WS:6/BS:5/ST:8(9 for Furious Charge)/T:8/W:3/I:9(10 max)/A:10(Max of up to 12)/Ld:10/SV: 2+

He also has, as mentioned above, the chance to hit his opponent on 2+ if he rolls high enough on his Transfixing Gaze 2D6 check. Oh, and he's also Fleet.

Put him in a command squad with some storm shield veterans to Look Out Sir! anything that's AP:2 and that also happens to have a challenge soaker, plus a Sanguinary Novitiate with a Narthecium to give him Feel No Pain on top of the ridiculous stat line above.

The ONLY downside to this is that he has no AP:2 weapon in melee, but few characters outside of Eternal Warrior toting/Lords of War folks are going to be able to touch him before he hits them with Instant Death due to either having double-toughness or forgoing a few attacks and activating Sanguine Sword (ST:10 in melee straight up) or Force for an Instant Death weapon anyway.

It's not Primarch Level crazyness, but I can only count on one hand the characters that could stand up to him for more than a turn or two. (Marneus Calgar, Maybe Dante, Draigo, Lysander, and Maybe Abbadon if he has Eternal Warrior.)

Just throwing it out there. Granted, it takes some very specific powers rolled randomly to get him to this level of crazytrain, but even then, just getting Quickening + Warp Speed is minimum +4 attacks and Initiative with either Force activated or Sanguine Sword on for ST:10 with at least 10 to 12 attacks, possibly hitting on 2's.

He's not always going to be the best option, but with some luck and the right powers, he's a monster like few others I can come up with.

My contribution. Take it as you will, and take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Mephiston is also naturally ST:5/T:5, at I:5 and WS:6. He jumps to ST:10 as well and has transfixing glare meaning he could feasibly hit on 2+ vs. any opponent provided he rolls high enough on the 2D6 check. He also has a force weapon that swings at ST:10 w/ a successful Psychic Cast, and is ML:3 with Adamantium Will (warlord trait). Plus he can cast Quickening (Primaris power) for +D3 Attacks and Initiative, and go with Force as well for Instant Death on his ST:10 swings for anything higher than T:5 he might fight.

He can also go with Biomancy for a shot at Iron Arm in-lieu of Sanguinary, or go with both Biomancy and one roll on Sanguinary for some crazy powerful combos with luck.

You could, in theory, have Mephiston with the following powers:

A melee character with ST:5/T:5 with Iron Arm for + 3 Strength and Toughness, boosted to ST:8/T:8 (ST:9 on the charge) with 4 base attacks, plus 1 for charging, and plus another 1 for being armed with a force sword and plasma pistol (6 total, 5 base). Now, let's say we also add in Warp Speed as well from Biomancy for +3 attacks and +3 initiative, boosting him to I:8 and 8 attacks total (9 attacks charging). Now let's ALSO add in one more roll on the Blood Angels Sanguinary discipline and kick it out for the Primaris of Quickening, which he can cast along with Iron Arm and Warp Speed for an additional D3 Initiative (Minimum I:9, capped at I:10) and Attacks, meaning he has 9 attacks minimum, 10 on the charge, and 12 with the maximum D:3 roll, bumping him up to the following stat line:

SUPER MEPHY!
WS:6/BS:5/ST:8(9 for Furious Charge)/T:8/W:3/I:9(10 max)/A:10(Max of up to 12)/Ld:10/SV: 2+

He also has, as mentioned above, the chance to hit his opponent on 2+ if he rolls high enough on his Transfixing Gaze 2D6 check. Oh, and he's also Fleet.

Put him in a command squad with some storm shield veterans to Look Out Sir! anything that's AP:2 and that also happens to have a challenge soaker, plus a Sanguinary Novitiate with a Narthecium to give him Feel No Pain on top of the ridiculous stat line above.

The ONLY downside to this is that he has no AP:2 weapon in melee, but few characters outside of Eternal Warrior toting/Lords of War folks are going to be able to touch him before he hits them with Instant Death due to either having double-toughness or forgoing a few attacks and activating Sanguine Sword (ST:10 in melee straight up) or Force for an Instant Death weapon anyway.

It's not Primarch Level crazyness, but I can only count on one hand the characters that could stand up to him for more than a turn or two. (Marneus Calgar, Maybe Dante, Draigo, Lysander, and Maybe Abbadon if he has Eternal Warrior.)

Just throwing it out there. Granted, it takes some very specific powers rolled randomly to get him to this level of crazytrain, but even then, just getting Quickening + Warp Speed is minimum +4 attacks and Initiative with either Force activated or Sanguine Sword on for ST:10 with at least 10 to 12 attacks, possibly hitting on 2's.

He's not always going to be the best option, but with some luck and the right powers, he's a monster like few others I can come up with.

My contribution. Take it as you will, and take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

1 Wound that is S10 or ID=Dead Methiston

Who's this kid that keeps bringing up 30k? Bahahaha..

Anyway ON topic

Imperium - draigo. There is a reason he is a land raider cost.
Chaos - abbadon. Almost as many gimmicks as draigo
Xenos - ghazghkull. Which is somewhat sad as I wish he was a bit better than what even he is on the tabletop

commander dante wrote:
1 Wound that is S10 or ID=Dead Methiston

Do note that I said the following in my wall of text/explanation you quoted:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
He's not always going to be the best option, but with some luck and the right powers, he's a monster like few others I can come up with.

No crap he's dead to ST:10 AP:2, EVERYTHING that doesn't have Eternal Warrior and is T:5 or lower is dead to ST:10, AP:2. (I will note, that he doesn't die instantly with Iron Arm active, so that ST:10 falls flat. Still hurts him but doesn't double-toughness him out.). His thing is he hits harder than most anything I can think of, at higher initiative, and with more attacks than most any other single model can have,

Read before replying kids, it helps.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I wouldn't agree with commander dante's way of making his point, but he isn't wrong. Horus does come out on top as far as I know.

I've had the Draigo v Abaddon mano e mano in a GK v CSM battle once. Draigo lost handily. They have similar stats but Abaddon's weapons are much better so he could tailor his attacks to what would kill Draigo.

Tailor attacks? He only has one weapon that gets through his armor.

Isengard wrote:
I've had the Draigo v Abaddon mano e mano in a GK v CSM battle once. Draigo lost handily. They have similar stats but Abaddon's weapons are much better so he could tailor his attacks to what would kill Draigo.

I saw one by MwG and draigo won using psychic to his advantage. Killed him with the storm bolter actually if I remember correctly

Draigo would eat Abaddons lunch! You dont see Abaddon fighting outside the warp by himself Like Draigo goes in.

from: Draigo fanboy : )

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yes, but his rules are for 30k, not 40k. While the systems are compatible, they're not the same.

Honest.

Game wise, wasn't it calculated that Abaddon could actually carve his way through everyone ever?

I remember when the old version of Deathwing Knights in smite mode with Belial could turn Abaddon into paste.

Edit: wrong thread

Would the Daemon Lords count for Chaos? If so, I'd imagine one of them would win it. I would probably say Zarakynel out of all them, despite being the cheapest, if we're talking about one on one combat - up to 8 attacks on the charge, rerolling to hit and wound, S7 AP2 with instant death and recovers a wound each turn it it causes an unsaved wound. And if you're not fearless? You have to pass a leadership to even hit back . Although to be fair they're all pretty goddamn powerful, but the Slaaneshi chap/lady does seem (as you would expect) the best at challenges.

I have seen he old death wing knights turn draigo into paste too.

In most head to head battles, abaddon wins over draigo. Draigo is great, and his psychic powers can help a tad, but abaddon has more options.

Also, making the comment that only one weapon can hurt him (ap2), remember that even a bolter round can kill and shred +number of attacks can be just as deadly. He has an 18% chance of rolling a 1 anyway.

Sorry but it's Abby hands down. Grey knights are only a shadow of their former selves now, not that great.

Oh I almost forgot! Read pandorax. It took both azrael and draigo together to stop abaddon, neither stood a chance without the help of the other due to his power. Draigo has a bit of a pick attitude too.