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So I decided to start a small Eldar force that will eventually grow into an apocalypse size army and could use some advice. Is battle forged better than their warhost detachment? Looking at codex and some of the lists posted, I'd really like to stay away from jetbikes (too cheesy). I am partial to the Wraith Guard. Obviously have to pick up some Wave Serpents, Fire Prisms, maybe some Wraithlords, maybe some War Walkers, and Wraithknights. For basic troops, I hear base guardians are garbage unless you take a ton of them, and Dire Avengers are much better. I'd probably be going with a Yme -Loc scheme. Any direction would be great. Thanks in advance!

Well let's start with this, what rule set are you playing with? Depending on which you choose can change what's playable and what's not D:

Planning on using the current edition.

Ok, are you using any other rule sets like ITC, Adepticon, NOVA, etc? What's popular for those in your area since some people will only play certain formats.

Guardians are actually pretty dang good. While not the "best" choice they're decent. That's the great thing about Eldar, even the most "mediocre" options are decent in most lists.

Tinkrr, as far as I'm aware our game store just goes by the rulebook, codex, dataslates, and CRD/FAQ. No one has brought up extra rules from Adepticon, Nova, or anything else.

We play games that can be anywhere from 500 pts to apocalypse games. Usually there is some kind of escalating league that starts at 500pts then goes up each week. I'm not looking to play in any sort of high level tournaments.

Guardians are actually pretty bad and a tax for their Decurion style list.

bad is relative. Guardians are a decent troop choice, it's just that the other eldar troop choices are much better. I would rate them above a lot of other armies troops.

 l0k1 wrote:
Tinkrr, as far as I'm aware our game store just goes by the rulebook, codex, dataslates, and CRD/FAQ. No one has brought up extra rules from Adepticon, Nova, or anything else.

Alright, but I'd suggest asking a few people and looking into what they use for tournaments if you want to play in those, as the ITC is rather popular right now.

If you are just using the base rules, well then the Wraith Knight is generally a very powerful unit that you can use to basically make a weaker list function a lot better. It's not exactly broken, it's just under costed and very strong, so in formats that allow more than one, you can use their under costed nature to make up for the points you'd lose by taking more fluffy units if you're not planning to go fully optimized but still want to have a solid build.

I planned getting at least 1 Wraithknight for starters. I've played against it and seen it in action. It is pretty strong for its point cost.

Wraith Knights are pretty good, but depending on your area they can also inspire a fair amount of anger in people. But basically, pretty much every unit in that book (barring maybe shining spears) is a decent unit, even Guardians and Banshees

 l0k1 wrote:
I planned getting at least 1 Wraithknight for starters. I've played against it and seen it in action. It is pretty strong for its point cost.

One is a safe bet as it's playable in all formats, it's once you get to two or more that some have restrictions on it.

Really what makes Eldar so powerful isn't any one thing, but rather that all of their models are very aggressively costed and rather powerful. That's usually why other rule sets don't really nerf anything directly about them, but chip away at many different things that culminate in a more balanced version of the army as a whole, unlike other armies which have one or two things that specifically make them too powerful and can just be toned down in that specific area. As such you have a lot more freedom with what you bring in an Eldar list, so what you really have to worry about is what your list needs, as opposed to which units are playable or unplayable as a whole.

Psychic phase my friend. Get those farseers in your army. For apocalypse or even smaller lists a seer council will be a ton of fun and essentially do whatever you want to buff your army. If you don't want jet bikes that even gives you the option of taking eldrad in the council.

The war host is honestly hit or miss. It really depends on your play style. I prefer jet bikes so I like the CAD to keep objective secured. Nothing wrong with a CAD. I hear the guardian stormhost is very fun and decent.

I would highly reccomend you check out the crimson hunter wing , dire avenger shrine if you like them. Or simply the aspect host is very good.

Do not underestimate the Eldar Warhost detachment. The automatic six inch run move is huge, especially for models with Battle Focus. Sure, it forces some less-than-optimal units and builds onto you, but none of the units in the Warhost are bad per se and your opponents are usually appreciative.

Wraithguard are a very powerful unit, and are rightfully seen as cheesy with the D-Scythes. If you are going to take them, only take one unit. Wraithblades are an underappreciated unit that can be very effective with the right support. Mobility is a serious issue with Wraith units, so you will want Wave Serpents and a Warhost (preferably both) to help mitigate this.

Wave Serpents are the most expensive dedicated transports in the game, but you rightfully get what you pay for. Always take the second Shuriken Cannon and Holo-Fields. The turret weapon is usually a Scatter Laser, but some swear by Starcannons. Either way, 140 points buys you the game's best combination of mobility, survivability, and firepower of any transport.

Fire Prisms and their close relative the Night Spinner are very hit-and-miss units. They are expensive, and can bring solid blast weapons to the table, but they need support from other units to get the best mileage out of them.

Wraithlords are like a cheaper and less durable version of the Wraithknight, for the better. Sadly less than half the cost, they are not half as effective, but any unit comes off poorly when compared to the Wraithknight. They are still very useful in a Wraith Host as a durable "jack-of-all-trades" unit.

Wraithknights. Everyone knows them, the vast majority hate them. Do not bring more than one to a game. Not heeding this advice is the shortest route to becoming a cheesemongering powergamer this side of Skyhammer.

Guardians are hardly bad, even when compared to the other troop choices in the Eldar codex; they simply fill different roles. They are best used camping cover and claiming home objectives, and are surprisingly durable for their points in this role. Furthermore, they can be deadly to troop units up close, even more so with the right support. Dire Avengers are better at taking and claiming midfield objectives due to their better leadership, armour, and guns, but are expensive for larger units. Rangers are good at infiltrating onto objectives, poking things occasionally, and dying to Ignores Cover weaponry.

In terms of army, look into a Warhost with the Guardian Battlehost as the core and the Wraith Host as an auxiliary.

I love eldar players who play a battle host. It's a tough, yet fluffy formation.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Do not underestimate the Eldar Warhost detachment. The automatic six inch run move is huge, especially for models with Battle Focus. Sure, it forces some less-than-optimal units and builds onto you, but none of the units in the Warhost are bad per se and your opponents are usually appreciative.

Wraithguard are a very powerful unit, and are rightfully seen as cheesy with the D-Scythes. If you are going to take them, only take one unit. Wraithblades are an underappreciated unit that can be very effective with the right support. Mobility is a serious issue with Wraith units, so you will want Wave Serpents and a Warhost (preferably both) to help mitigate this.

Wave Serpents are the most expensive dedicated transports in the game, but you rightfully get what you pay for. Always take the second Shuriken Cannon and Holo-Fields. The turret weapon is usually a Scatter Laser, but some swear by Starcannons. Either way, 140 points buys you the game's best combination of mobility, survivability, and firepower of any transport.

Fire Prisms and their close relative the Night Spinner are very hit-and-miss units. They are expensive, and can bring solid blast weapons to the table, but they need support from other units to get the best mileage out of them.

Wraithlords are like a cheaper and less durable version of the Wraithknight, for the better. Sadly less than half the cost, they are not half as effective, but any unit comes off poorly when compared to the Wraithknight. They are still very useful in a Wraith Host as a durable "jack-of-all-trades" unit.

Wraithknights. Everyone knows them, the vast majority hate them. Do not bring more than one to a game. Not heeding this advice is the shortest route to becoming a cheesemongering powergamer this side of Skyhammer.

Guardians are hardly bad, even when compared to the other troop choices in the Eldar codex; they simply fill different roles. They are best used camping cover and claiming home objectives, and are surprisingly durable for their points in this role. Furthermore, they can be deadly to troop units up close, even more so with the right support. Dire Avengers are better at taking and claiming midfield objectives due to their better leadership, armour, and guns, but are expensive for larger units. Rangers are good at infiltrating onto objectives, poking things occasionally, and dying to Ignores Cover weaponry.

In terms of army, look into a Warhost with the Guardian Battlehost as the core and the Wraith Host as an auxiliary.

This. I'm planning on using a Warhost, and in my proxy games so far that 6" run has been great, walk up near an enemy unit, shoot them to death, then run 6" back (preferably behind cover) and laugh as your opponent's chase you

Thanks for the input! I'll look more into the warhost a bit.

I've decided to start with the Guardian defenders warhost. This will hopefully make my army a little less powerful and a lot more fun to play.