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Would it be possible to split the painting and modeling forum into two separate entities, one for commission works and one for everyone else?

I'm not sure what that would accomplish?

I mean, everything seems to fit nicely in the existing P&M forums, regardless of who painted it ('pro' or 'amateur').

It just seems that a bunch of the posts are from professional painters using it to bring attention to their business. While I enjoy looking at the phenomenal work, and wishing I could paint close to that level, I want to see less professional work and more amateur work. Splitting it into two forums would accomplish that.

Doesn't seem like there are so many posts that clicking and then hitting back would be that big a deal...

It would purely be for extra convenience.

It wouldn't be 'extra convenience' for Lego who would have to create the forum and move the threads.

And then one extra forum to moderate, maintain etc

*Waits for the endless "this is not pro painted"/" this should be in the pro painted forum" arguments to ensue*

I haven't checked in a while, but are the 'pro painters' not using the "Showcase" forum?

This isn't the first time someone has brought this up.

OP: Adding another forum attempts to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

There are a few commission studios who post fairly constantly... most of them quite helpfully put either their studio name or 'commission' (or similar) in the thread titles, so they are usually pretty easy to skip past if you're so inclined.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
This isn't the first time someone has brought this up.

Yeah, we had a bit of a tete a tete on this one.
I still think it's a good idea and would encourage more average and beginner painters to show some more achievable and acceptable standards whilst being able to improve.
At the very least I'd still like to see commission work clearly labelled in the thread titles, that way I can ignore them more easily and focus my attentions on threads that actually generate C+C discussion rather than a string of back patting.

Here's the links to a couple of thread that I started....

00001 brushes as fingers and airbrushes as nostrils, a need for a P+M Procase discussion?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/612869.page

A need for a P+M Procase?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/612873.page

When I post my work here, whether it's commission or personal, I do it to constructive criticism not just "back patting." I'm not alone in this regard either, as just about every commission painter that posts on the Showcase forum has always been receptive to criticism.

Why someone painted a model should be of no consequence to posting it; the title of the post should decided if you are interested in clicking on it or not. I've painted some X-Wing Miniatures ships for myself and for other people. Do I have to post the ones I painted for myself in the Professional Showcase because I've been paid to paint things before? I wouldn't think so, because they're for my personal collection and I game with them and no one paid me to paint them. That doesn't solve the "problem" of average painters being kept safe from seeming work that might be better than theirs. Like I've brought up before, commission =/= super talented. There are people that get paid to paint stuff that frankly isn't good and on the flip-side there are people that are phenomenal painters that have never taken red cent for their work. Again, there doesn't need to be a forum just for beginners or average painters because those are inherently worthless terms. (I can speak from experience when I say that most people have seen beginners that are able to produce outstanding work.)

Just getting paid to do something doesn't make you a professional, so who would decided what people are allowed to post in the Professional Showcase?

I think that one problem is that once a painter finishes and photographs the commisson it's pretty much final.
The work is likely to have been approved and posted at that stage so any suggestions or critique are unlikely to be acted upon and no real dialogue is created.
Having been a teacher and taught miniature painting in a few stores I find this frustrating and will be less likely to comment with any suggestions.

 pretre wrote:
Doesn't seem like there are so many posts that clicking and then hitting back would be that big a deal...

To be fair, some of them aren't really made clear that "This was a commission" in the thread title or what have you.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
I think that one problem is that once a painter finishes and photographs the commisson it's pretty much final.
The work is likely to have been approved and posted at that stage so any suggestions or critique are unlikely to be acted upon and no real dialogue is created.
Having been a teacher and taught miniature painting in a few stores I find this frustrating and will be less likely to comment with any suggestions.

Unlikely to be acted upon for that piece.

Back when I was doing commissions, any feedback I received most certainly was considered for future work, though.


And I did have one or two pieces where something was pointed out that was worth fixing before sending it off to the buyer, which worked out well for everyone involved




The big problem with having a separate section for 'pro' work is that posting in there is only ever going to be at best a voluntary thing, as it's simply too hard to police. Where the studio specifically says it's a commission piece, that's easy enough... but when it's just a poster showing pictures of a miniature, there is absolutely no way of knowing whether it's 'professional' paid work, personal work from a professional, or an amateur. The standard of work we see on the site from both amateurs and professionals covers such a broad spectrum of quality and style that there is simply no clean way to make that call.

That's a valid point Insaniak, but most non-commission painters don't slather their images with watermarks or their username/contact info.

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's a valid point Insaniak, but most non-commission painters don't slather their images with watermarks or their username/contact info.

Sure. Although quite a few do... hell, I was watermarking my images long before I started doing commissions, because I wanted people to be able to find my website if they saw something that they liked.

And a lot of commission painters put their watermark on their personal work as well as the paid stuff.

Why does it matter particularly if the work was pro/studio or done for fun, so long as the person sticks around to communicate and participate?

I have to say that bodies of consistent work don't trouble me, if the painter is joining in on the forum. It's what makes us different to a pure automatic system such as CMON.

However you do get posts like this or to give a better picture, this (not bashing the work or user!). Such users clearly just finish a piece and then cycle all the gallery sites before vanishing again without even replying. At which point it does feel like just adverts.

Which is fine. The P&M section is as much just for people to show off their work as for receiving feedback.

Some posters want that feedback, some don't. Not all of the posters who don't care about feedback are pro-studios.


The P&M section, particularly the showcase, is about painting and modelling discussion, certainly. But it's also about sharing what we do, and potentially inspiring others. And a lot of the pro work is really good for that.

 insaniak wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's a valid point Insaniak, but most non-commission painters don't slather their images with watermarks or their username/contact info.

Sure. Although quite a few do... hell, I was watermarking my images long before I started doing commissions, because I wanted people to be able to find my website if they saw something that they liked.

And a lot of commission painters put their watermark on their personal work as well as the paid stuff.

I've started putting a watermark on my photos because I've had someone steal one of them from my blog and it made me upset.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
I think that one problem is that once a painter finishes and photographs the commisson it's pretty much final.

That's ridiculous.

By your standard, criticizing movies, television shows, or novels is pointless because the director or writer can't go back and fix things that people didn't like if the project is complete.

The work is likely to have been approved and posted at that stage so any suggestions or critique are unlikely to be acted upon and no real dialogue is created.

That's also a ridiculous statement.

Having been a teacher and taught miniature painting in a few stores I find this frustrating and will be less likely to comment with any suggestions.

Then don't comment. Problem solved.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

By your standard, criticizing movies, television shows, or novels is pointless because the director or writer can't go back and fix things that people didn't like if the project is complete.
Then don't comment. Problem solved.

That's ridiculous and a little aggressive. All of these things have focus groups, publishers or multiple other people involved.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
*Waits for the endless "this is not pro painted"/" this should be in the pro painted forum" arguments to ensue*

This argument wins the thread.