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Sorry if this has been asked already, I searched and didn't find the answer, and the answer is probably no but I'd lappreciate some confirmation.

As the title says, my ravenwing bikes assaulted my opponents Rhino destroying it in the process forcing the tac squad inside to disembark. Do my bikes get a Hit & Run move?

Hit & Run is quite clear on when it may be done. If you've destroyed the Rhino you're no longer locked in combat with it, and it's impossible for the Tactical Squad to be forced to disembark into combat with your bikes, so no.

Hit & run can only be used by a unit that is locked in combat. You're not locked in combat if your opponent is a vehicle or if your opponent is destroyed. In order to be locked in combat, you have to be base to base with an enemy model (except non-walker/chariot vehicles). So no, you would not get to Hit & Run.

 Mr. Shine wrote:
If you've destroyed the Rhino you're no longer locked in combat with it

it's a nitpick, but: If you were fighting a Rhino, you were never locked in combat with it.

Bojazz wrote:
it's a nitpick, but: If you were fighting a Rhino, you were never locked in combat with it.

'tis a good and more important point!

Actually... you're locked in combat until the end of the current phase. You must be locked in combat to use it, and are no longer locked in combat after using it, suggesting you can use it even if everyone you fought died. Did we just find something new or am I missing something big?

Units are no longer locked in combat if at the end of the phase there are no enemy models in base contact. Hit & Run is performed at the end of the phase by a unit locked in combat, so if there are no enemy models in base contact the unit is not locked and cannot Hit & Run.

 Mr. Shine wrote:
Units are no longer locked in combat if at the end of the phase there are no enemy models in base contact. Hit & Run is performed at the end of the phase by a unit locked in combat, so if there are no enemy models in base contact the unit is not locked and cannot Hit & Run.

If both happen at the same time, the rules state that the person whose turn it is decides the order. Both occur "at the end of the assault phase"; Hit & Run explicitly says so, and being locked in combat implicitly says so by stating it as being "at the end of any phase" of which the assault phase is one of.

Hmm... I suppose by the rule of sequencing Yarium might be correct here. I can't spot anything that would make "locked in combat" resolve first, so....If you wipe a non-vehicle unit (besides walkers/chariots) on your own turn you can choose to Hit & Run afterwards? Seems odd. I"ll have to do more digging to make sure.

Bojazz wrote:
Hmm... I suppose by the rule of sequencing Yarium might be correct here. I can't spot anything that would make "locked in combat" resolve first, so....If you wipe a non-vehicle unit (besides walkers/chariots) on your own turn you can choose to Hit & Run afterwards? Seems odd. I"ll have to do more digging to make sure.

Yeah, this seems like another example of poor rules writing allowing a RaW interpretation of something that CLEARLY isn't intended to occur. The clear intention is that you should be locked in combat with actual, non-dead models to be able to Hit & Run. Anyone arguing for the ability to Hit & Run when there are no enemy models present won't be making any friends. Also, I can't imagine any TO allowing this.

 Kriswall wrote:

Bojazz wrote:
Hmm... I suppose by the rule of sequencing Yarium might be correct here. I can't spot anything that would make "locked in combat" resolve first, so....If you wipe a non-vehicle unit (besides walkers/chariots) on your own turn you can choose to Hit & Run afterwards? Seems odd. I"ll have to do more digging to make sure.

Yeah, this seems like another example of poor rules writing allowing a RaW interpretation of something that CLEARLY isn't intended to occur. The clear intention is that you should be locked in combat with actual, non-dead models to be able to Hit & Run. Anyone arguing for the ability to Hit & Run when there are no enemy models present won't be making any friends. Also, I can't imagine any TO allowing this.

Actually, I've always found it weird that my Harlequins (or other people's bikers), who were able to dart in and out like lightning, would stop and gloat over a corpse. To me, being able to "Hit & Run", with the Hit being successful and killing everyone, kinda makes sense.

 Yarium wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

Bojazz wrote:
Hmm... I suppose by the rule of sequencing Yarium might be correct here. I can't spot anything that would make "locked in combat" resolve first, so....If you wipe a non-vehicle unit (besides walkers/chariots) on your own turn you can choose to Hit & Run afterwards? Seems odd. I"ll have to do more digging to make sure.

Yeah, this seems like another example of poor rules writing allowing a RaW interpretation of something that CLEARLY isn't intended to occur. The clear intention is that you should be locked in combat with actual, non-dead models to be able to Hit & Run. Anyone arguing for the ability to Hit & Run when there are no enemy models present won't be making any friends. Also, I can't imagine any TO allowing this.

Actually, I've always found it weird that my Harlequins (or other people's bikers), who were able to dart in and out like lightning, would stop and gloat over a corpse. To me, being able to "Hit & Run", with the Hit being successful and killing everyone, kinda makes sense.

They don't stop and gloat over a corpse. They make a consolidation move. I do see your point though. I still don't think anyone will let you do it.

 Kriswall wrote:
They don't stop and gloat over a corpse. They make a consolidation move. I do see your point though. I still don't think anyone will let you do it.

Not really disagreeing. It sounds dirty for someone used to that not being the case. Even weirder is that on a failed initiative test I still couldn't run away! Who the heck "caught" me!?!

 Kriswall wrote:

 Yarium wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

Bojazz wrote:
Hmm... I suppose by the rule of sequencing Yarium might be correct here. I can't spot anything that would make "locked in combat" resolve first, so....If you wipe a non-vehicle unit (besides walkers/chariots) on your own turn you can choose to Hit & Run afterwards? Seems odd. I"ll have to do more digging to make sure.

Yeah, this seems like another example of poor rules writing allowing a RaW interpretation of something that CLEARLY isn't intended to occur. The clear intention is that you should be locked in combat with actual, non-dead models to be able to Hit & Run. Anyone arguing for the ability to Hit & Run when there are no enemy models present won't be making any friends. Also, I can't imagine any TO allowing this.

Actually, I've always found it weird that my Harlequins (or other people's bikers), who were able to dart in and out like lightning, would stop and gloat over a corpse. To me, being able to "Hit & Run", with the Hit being successful and killing everyone, kinda makes sense.

They don't stop and gloat over a corpse. They make a consolidation move. I do see your point though. I still don't think anyone will let you do it.

And if you're already making a consolidation move, what's the point of Hit & Run?

Charistoph wrote:
And if you're already making a consolidation move, what's the point of Hit & Run?

The consolidation move wouldn't replace hit & run, so the purpose would be to gain additional movement distance.

I feel like Sequencing shouldn't be relevant, given the condition is having no models in base contact at that time rather than simply being at the end of the Assault phase.

That may just be my leaning towards what we all seem to agree is how it should be played, though.

Bojazz wrote:

Charistoph wrote:
And if you're already making a consolidation move, what's the point of Hit & Run?

The consolidation move wouldn't replace hit & run, so the purpose would be to gain additional movement distance.

The point of Hit & Run is to remove the unit from Combat. If you are just making a consolidation move, than you are no longer in Combat with no reason to Hit & Run.

Bojazz wrote:
Hmm... I suppose by the rule of sequencing Yarium might be correct here. I can't spot anything that would make "locked in combat" resolve first, so....If you wipe a non-vehicle unit (besides walkers/chariots) on your own turn you can choose to Hit & Run afterwards? Seems odd. I"ll have to do more digging to make sure.

Maybe the fact that Hit & RUn says that you can us it when you're locked in combat is the order in wich its resolved?

End of the CC phase, unit still locked?, Check, you then use H&R.

End of CC phase, unit isn't locked anymore?, check, you don't use H&R.

The requirement for H&R is that the unit is locked, so even thouhg there is no real "order of operations" here, the requirement for H&R is still to be locked in CC when you wanna use the rule.

Now i don't have my BRB on hand so i cannot check the way its worded.

I'm a bit confused why there is any question about this. There's one particular line in the core rule book that leaves it quite clear in my mind that the assaulting unit is never locked in combat with the vehicle at any point in time:

Rules p.78, Successive Turns wrote:Units that still have models in base contact with a vehicle during its Assault phase may attack it again, just as in a normal ongoing combat (including all models that would count as engaged in a normal assault).

This line makes two clear distinctions:
- First, it states the non-vehicle unit treats the situation as if it's a normal combat, which means it's not.
- Second, the models that can attack are calculated as if they are engaged in a normal combat situation.

I play Harlequins, as well, so as much as I would like it to be otherwise, I honestly see no question as to how to rule this.

I think we resolved the specifics of the question in the first couple of replies. My understanding was that the continued discussion was on Hit & Run in general, against non-vehicle units.

Sorry, my apologies. Didn't realize that.

On the new point, though, I don't think there's much argument about that, either. Consider what's on p.47:

Rules, p.47, Locked in Combat wrote:If a unit has one or more models in base contact with an enemy model (for any reason), then it is locked in combat.

And the write-up for Hit & Run:

Rules, p.165, Hit & Run wrote:A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule that is locked in combat...

While a number of effects in the game may share the same trigger (e.g. end of phase), many of them are mutually exclusive. Hit & Run and locked in combat, however, are not. Even if you wanted to trigger Hit & Run first the rule clearly states you have to identify Locked in Combat conditions first before rectifying. As such, when a unit is completely wiped out you have no ability to Hit & Run because that rule itself deems the situation does not apply.