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I live the dream of a TAC space marine list, I'm trying to fit at least some measure of Anti-air in and I'm interested to hear peoples thoughts.

Codex AA on Rhino chassis is said to be reasonable
For TAC list, little flyers will fill the role admirably. They can do well against air, they are cheap and trhey can help with things on ground if there is lack of targets for AA.

My concern with Flyers as a counter to Flyers is the risk that mine will come in first and not get a chance to deal the required damage. The Stalker could be worth a look, seems reasonably priced

What about the VENGENCE! battery with 2 TL lascannons?

Skyfire and Interceptor IIRC. BS2 but with 2 TL shots you should be OK.

That's something i hadn't considered actually - any idea what the points are?

The AA tanks look to be not bad. Low points, so if there aren’t any flyers you are not that far behind. Plus they work fine on skimmers, and there are a number of those out there. Don’t own any, so can’t speak from personal experience.

I love my stormtalon. Scrappy little bird. Good vs. flyers and med/light armor. Can hover, so you don’t need to fly off the table. Reasonable points for what you get. I’d recommend it. Probably the best TAC choice.

The raven is a bit pricier, bit tougher, with a tad more firepower. The cargo capacity is just a trap to put all your eggs in one basket, but it makes a acceptable gunboat if you ignore it.

There are some FW flyers that seem nice, but are on the expensive side.

The AA formation in C: SM is a really good way to go.

The AA tanks can also shoot skimmers. BONUS.

Fireraptor is legit if you like forgeworld, but as was said before the Vengence batteries are awesome, you can take 2 in the same formation spot and they are 75pts a piece. The firestorm redoubt has the same rule set on a better platform hahaha. Also a bunker and they are really cool looking pieces.

there are anti-air units for space marines.. and then theres the deredeo. simply put the best weapon for cracking planes and flying monsters this side of the 41st millenium, argueably the best ground to air weapon in all of 40k right now

Doredo is rather fragile for the points, though.

If it is OK for you to ally with Skitarii you can get the best AA unit in all 40k -- Onager Dunecrawler with Icarus Array. For 125 points you will get:
a) 1 48'' 7/2 Skyfire shot;
b) 5 (five!) 48'' 6/4 Ignores Cover, Skyfire shots;
and
c) 2 48'' 7/4 Interceptor, Skyfire, TL shots.

And you will be free to either fire them all simultaneously in your shooting phase or use Interceptor in the enemy's turn and then fire the remaining shots in your shooting phase at the same or at the other target. Taking into account that Onagers are BS4 and can be taken in squadrons of 3 you will be able to remove any annoying fliers or skimmers from the table in just 1 turn of shooting.

A squadron of Stalkers can go a long way. With Ignores Cover, Interceptor, and twin-linked, they can even be halfway useful against ground targets like bikes and jetbikes. Being able to shut down jink is pretty useful. They are uparmored on the sides compared to other Rhino pattern tanks, but they are still fragile. The fact they have high volume of shots is also good. If you take the formation, you might as well splurge for the third Stalker to get IC. The Hunter is best used only in the formation since it doesn't have Interceptor, making it vulnerable to being blown up by incoming flyers.

If you want to go with a flyer, look into Stormtalons with Skyhammer Missile Launchers. They are cheap as hell and can really put the hurt on other flyers. The Raptor Wing formation is good, it lets you reroll pen and wounds.

Exalbaru wrote:
Fireraptor is legit if you like forgeworld, but as was said before the Vengence batteries are awesome, you can take 2 in the same formation spot and they are 75pts a piece. The firestorm redoubt has the same rule set on a better platform hahaha. Also a bunker and they are really cool looking pieces.

That's my memory as well, it's a 'free' upgrade to the VENGENCE! turret, but you have to buy or convert the guns yourself.

And I think they have to aim at the closest but I'd have to reread the rules to be sure.

Raptor Wing or the new IG Vendetta squadron formation is the way to go.

Raptor Wing is pretty legit. Not only do they guarantee Turn2 Talons but if the AA is or isn't necessary you get Tank Hunters and pseudo-shred on one target every turn. *thumbs up*

Don't have the rules at hand at the moment, but couldn't the Land speeder designate enemy flyers for the talons? I don't Remember how the rule is specifically worded. If I am correct, that would make this formation just uber at killing air targets.

Deschenus Maximus wrote:
Don't have the rules at hand at the moment, but couldn't the Land speeder designate enemy flyers for the talons? I don't Remember how the rule is specifically worded. If I am correct, that would make this formation just uber at killing air targets.

The phrasing is weird, but I think that is what Saythings is saying. Even when not used for AA, Raptor Wing is still good.

It gave me a reason to run my Land Speeders if nothing else. I did change them to Assault Cannon Speeders as a result though.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Exalbaru wrote:
Fireraptor is legit if you like forgeworld, but as was said before the Vengence batteries are awesome, you can take 2 in the same formation spot and they are 75pts a piece. The firestorm redoubt has the same rule set on a better platform hahaha. Also a bunker and they are really cool looking pieces.

That's my memory as well, it's a 'free' upgrade to the VENGENCE! turret, but you have to buy or convert the guns yourself.

And I think they have to aim at the closest but I'd have to reread the rules to be sure.

Yea, youre right. it only comes with the things to make the gattling gun and the battle cannon. And yea its got skyfire and intersceptor for the lascannon but its to the closest one. That's why I normally take two of them.

its 235 pts - but it has a lot of uses

Add a skitarii maniple to your force and get
2 5 man squads of rangers or vanguard
1 Onager Dunecrawler w/ Icarus Array

For the uninitiated the Icarus Array lets you fire all the weapons in the array at a target
Daedalus missile launcher
48" - 7 - 2- Heavy 1, Skyfire

Gatling rocket launcher
48" - 6 - 4 - Heavy 5, Skyfire, Ignores Cover

Twin Icarus autocannon
48" -7 - 4 -Heavy 2, Skyfire, Interceptor, Twin-linked

How has no one mentioned the sicarian tank yet? Excellent anti air and still good if they have no air at all.

Stalker tanks are awesome. Cheap and easily played. I ally in Space Marines to Dark Angels just to get a squadron of them.

Due to volume of shots and twin-linked, a squadron of Stalkers is actually a halfway decent ground target tank. 9 TL shots, even at BS1 is likely to score a hit or two, and it is Ignores Cover so it is harder to shrug off. Is it ideal to use like this? No, but it is better than nothing if your opponent brings no flyers or skimmers.

NickAtkins wrote:
I live the dream of a TAC space marine list, I'm trying to fit at least some measure of Anti-air in and I'm interested to hear peoples thoughts.

Cost wise, anti-air missiles in your squads is cheap and can be plentiful. One little combat squad can make a flyer jink and then the rest of your army can ignore the flyer. So three Flakk missiles interspersed among Tactical Squads seems like a pretty cost effective way to force a Jink.

Missles are cheap. The problem is the rest of the squad can't move and is wasted. And if it's a 5 man squad a hive tyrant would shoot them down before they could shoot back.

either the stalker or dune crawler are some of the best options for IOM players. I don't like flakk missiles much because that a lot of points for a squad that isn't great at fighting any one thing.

 Orock wrote:
Missles are cheap. The problem is the rest of the squad can't move and is wasted. And if it's a 5 man squad a hive tyrant would shoot them down before they could shoot back.

if he wants to fire at a 5 man squad. But thats why you have three of them. In their rhinos...

A single S7 shot is not going to make a flyer jink. At least not until it’s down to it’s last HP. Even then, they might just risk it.

Flack missiles are not a good use of points IMHO.

 Nevelon wrote:
A single S7 shot is not going to make a flyer jink. At least not until it’s down to it’s last HP. Even then, they might just risk it.

Flack missiles are not a good use of points IMHO.

You say that but... I dont think thats really all that true. If they have one flyer (quite often they do) i think they are pretty likely to jink knowing you have two more tries if you want them. their thinking will be "NOT jinking doesnt save me necessarily and I might get shaken on the first go".

Now if they have multiple flyers, maybe they wont Jink and dare you. Maybe. and maybe you drop his flyer into the ocean. Who knows.

Flak missiles are over costed for what they are. If they came stock with ML it would be worth it but the fact that you have pay 10 points on top of the 15 for the ML is to much. Thats 25 points just for the weapon to fire one s7 shot plus the cost of the unit. A 5 man squad with that is 95 points, a stalker gets me three shots for 75.