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I searched around and couldn't find...So, I'll post this here.

I've heard from a few podcasts (notably, TFG Radio) that PP model quality went down in the plastic era. Would somebody explain this to me?

I have a bunch of metal starter boxes and due to the state of 40k, I've been thinking of putting 40k on a shelf and maybe going with this or Beyond the Gates.

I like my metal PP models. They look great. I don't really have any PP plastic models other that a couple of the huge models.

So, what's the deal with the complaints about the plastic quality of PP? Much ado about nothing or is there a detail / quality issue?

Thanks

Most PP plastic models are made of PVC, which often has pretty horrible mould lines (that are harder to clean, you have to cut them off rather than scrape) and slightly shallower details than other materials. I don't hate them as much as other people but they're my least favourite material to work with. The end result is fine, it's the clean up work that's the main issue.

They do have a few models in hard plastic like GW, the Convergence of Cyriss battle engine, Farrow Meat Thresher, Cygnar Stormclad/Reliant, and upcoming Khador Kodiak/Grolar. These are apparently much much better, the only issues I've heard with those are a few sprue gate placement issues. However these models are rarer and they seem to take a long time to release (18 months - 2 years).

So far almost of Privateer Press's plastic miniatures are cast in the PVC. As far as I know the moulds used for casting are less durable than those used for doing HIPS but are cheaper to make and can usually (*cough* Cyriss battlegroup *cough*) reduce part counts by moulding protruding greebles in with a larger part that would have to be done separate in HIPS, hence a lot of shorter-run board game makers prefer the material for their sculpt.

Unfortunately PP are a lot bigger than said companies. Most of their PVC moulds seem to be worn out with more use than than the parts can take and can no longer close the 2 halves tightly, meaning that the molten PVC seems out the sides after been poured. This causes huge mould lines and flash on the sides of the casting. The material itself also feels quite cheap and nasty to me but that's obviously subjective.

If they had made them at least 50% off their far better made metals I could have ignored the poor quality, but with Privateer suggesting only a few pounds less than the same sculpts in pewter (if that), you can't help feeling cheated and insulted.

SYL.

To be honest, a lot of their earlier plastic runs were quite dodgy, with terrible mound lines and so on. Production issues and so on. Thst said, I've personally not had any issues with them.

To be fair to them though, their more recent stuff is a huge improvement. Saw the recent iron fangs and was hugely impressed.

Their metals are generally extremely solid however. I've not had any real issues there.

The new Blighted Nyss Swordsmen/Archers also seem pretty damn good from what I've seen. Even Denny3 in PVC seems pretty good, to the point where people thought she was in a new material.

For many options, you can buy the old metals, either new from PP, or second hand. The models that switched to PVC were bread and butter units, and so are in large circulation.

 ImAGeek wrote:
The new Blighted Nyss Swordsmen/Archers also seem pretty damn good from what I've seen. Even Denny3 in PVC seems pretty good, to the point where people thought she was in a new material.

I just got Denny3 for Christmas. She is really nice. If this is the way the plastics are going then I love it.

Part of the reason we thought she might be a new material is that they had her at Lock and Load unpainted and she was a resiny type material. I held her and got pictures of her. It turned out that was a production or test model not the final one.

The new plastic might be the same type as the old plastic, but it feels and looks different. Cleaner, a little denser, better detail. I also think they've been messign around witht he mold process itself and hopefully D3 is an example of what is to come. She has great detail, but is lighter and more durable than say Archangel.

All that said, I still prefer the plastics over the metals. I prefer plastic for modding and it is just lighter and easier to deal with. The detail issues don't matter too much if you are just trying to get a tabletop quality paintjob to play with. Which, from my experience, the vast majority of players would be happy with.

Oh, and the price. The plastic is a lot less expensive so makes the game easier to get into and expand.

 ImAGeek wrote:
upcoming Khador Kodiak/Grolar

I'll believe it exists when I bloody well hold it. GIVE ME MY GROLAR PP

The fluff piece mocking the delay with the Grolar was pretty funny.

This is what Elderain is referring to, from the newest No Quarter:


I love PP sometimes.

They do have a warped sense of humor which I love.

 Grey Templar wrote:
They do have a warped sense of humor which I love.

I still laugh regularly at them referring to Skarre's horns, which can knock models down, as her "great rack"

Well, its some kind of hard plastic. Not the level you can expect from GW plastic models. But I think the quality of the hard plastic models is not lower than that of the metal ones. Just compare Bane Knights (metal) with Bane Thralls (plastic).

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, its some kind of hard plastic.

Hard plastic usually refers to the the High Impact Polystyrene GW and Renedra etc use. The light grey material I think you're talking about is PVC.

 sing your life wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
They do have a warped sense of humor which I love.

I still laugh regularly at them referring to Skarre's horns, which can knock models down, as her "great rack"

You can't quite tell which is the actual melee weapon.

To echo a bit, PP's plastic is of two types, PVC (restic people call it) and very new HIPS (like GW/Rendera/Warlord), with a small smattering of resin here and there.

The PVC is bad, but better now than it was with Cyriss models. The Circle warpwolves, satyrs and Tharn men I have in PVC clean up alright, but the Cyriss stuff is still on the shelf. 500$ of it on the shelf, because holy crap. The more recent, and organic, PVC models are better, with better mold lines and fewer issues, and where some didn't fill out properly (I have a goat missing part of his nose) PP fixes that quickly enough for you. Downside though is that they are very static, and cross over units like Tharn Ravagers/Blood Pack look a little weird with 3 poses per unit, all with the same body and leg positions across units. It isn't so bad on the Wolves of Orboros/Reeves pack, but the tharn look bad.

I don't have experience with their HIPS, but I hear good things.

PP resin is alright. They only use it on big solid pieces, like various parts of the Woldwrath (Circle gargantuan) and epic Kromac's torso and legs. The material is light and generally has few easy to clean lines like most resin. Downside, it sometimes has little bubbles you need to fill in.

All in all, I have made the decision that I am just not going to clean/gap fill PP plastics I don't particularly love, at least not up to my normal standard. I am not a huge fan of the aesthetics, and the cleaning the PVC requires can be maddening and was putting me off ever using their models and painting them. Since I have to use their models in tournaments I broke down and just decided to clean them up enough to not be puke worthy, and just accept that they are kind of ugly. Whether that says more about me or the models, I don't know. But man, I was really excited about that Cyriss army, and it is still sitting on the shelf after two years or so.

 Wehrkind wrote:
To echo a bit, PP's plastic is of two types, PVC (restic people call it) and very new HIPS (like GW/Rendera/Warlord), with a small smattering of resin here and there.

The PVC is bad, but better now than it was with Cyriss models. The Circle warpwolves, satyrs and Tharn men I have in PVC clean up alright, but the Cyriss stuff is still on the shelf. 500$ of it on the shelf, because holy crap. The more recent, and organic, PVC models are better, with better mold lines and fewer issues, and where some didn't fill out properly (I have a goat missing part of his nose) PP fixes that quickly enough for you. Downside though is that they are very static, and cross over units like Tharn Ravagers/Blood Pack look a little weird with 3 poses per unit, all with the same body and leg positions across units. It isn't so bad on the Wolves of Orboros/Reeves pack, but the tharn look bad.

I don't have experience with their HIPS, but I hear good things.

PP resin is alright. They only use it on big solid pieces, like various parts of the Woldwrath (Circle gargantuan) and epic Kromac's torso and legs. The material is light and generally has few easy to clean lines like most resin. Downside, it sometimes has little bubbles you need to fill in.

All in all, I have made the decision that I am just not going to clean/gap fill PP plastics I don't particularly love, at least not up to my normal standard. I am not a huge fan of the aesthetics, and the cleaning the PVC requires can be maddening and was putting me off ever using their models and painting them. Since I have to use their models in tournaments I broke down and just decided to clean them up enough to not be puke worthy, and just accept that they are kind of ugly. Whether that says more about me or the models, I don't know. But man, I was really excited about that Cyriss army, and it is still sitting on the shelf after two years or so.

I spent the last few weeks building up a Cyriss army. I feel your pain, man. Jesus Christ their restic infantry is a bitch to clean up and put together.

I'd never heard of the Cyriss stuff having cleaning issues, only being a pain to assemble.

The jacks weren't bad to assemble, but cleaning off the mold lines that go right through detail areas was miserable. It is possible that the newer stuff is better, but early Cyriss was just terrible.

 Wehrkind wrote:
The jacks weren't bad to assemble, but cleaning off the mold lines that go right through detail areas was miserable. It is possible that the newer stuff is better, but early Cyriss was just terrible.

I vaguely recall hearing that they replaced the molds after the initial production, and that newer stuff was in deed easier to clean up and assemble.

 Wehrkind wrote:


All in all, I have made the decision that I am just not going to clean/gap fill PP plastics I don't particularly love, at least not up to my normal standard. I am not a huge fan of the aesthetics, and the cleaning the PVC requires can be maddening and was putting me off ever using their models and painting them. Since I have to use their models in tournaments I broke down and just decided to clean them up enough to not be puke worthy, and just accept that they are kind of ugly. Whether that says more about me or the models, I don't know. But man, I was really excited about that Cyriss army, and it is still sitting on the shelf after two years or so.

I feel the same way. After I spent way, way too long trying to clean up a unit of plastic Winter Guard, I decided I just didn't care anymore. The arms were glued on as best I could without bothering to clean off the mold lines. Going to spend the minimum amount of time painting them, then call it done. The plastic Iron Fangs aren't quite as bad... but still, I just don't care anymore. I don't mind cleaning mold lines off pewter minis, because at least there it's fairly simple. But the weird plastic PP uses is just a huge pain to clean. I'm looking forward to more stuff being released in GW-style plastic. I only wish PP had taken the financial hit to make the switch years ago.