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I am just starting in this amazing Hobby and am mostly interested in painting miniatures, but am also getting more and more interested in learning about the table top game.

I had considered just getting the rule book only, but then found the Dark Vengeance set which included a HUGE number of models to paint and also the rule book, etc.

My main question is whether the abbreviated rule book included in the set gives everything needed to play or is the bigger edition a better way to go?

I'm not crazy about many of the models in the set for painting purposes, but am mostly concerned with learning the rules properly.

Thanks for any help!

The small set of rules will offer everything the big set has, but neither have the rules for the units themselves, they exist in the codexes.

 jonolikespie wrote:
The small set of rules will offer everything the big set has, but neither have the rules for the units themselves, they exist in the codexes.

Ahhhh, okay!! Thanks!

Will the rule set make it easier for me to pick the army I like based on their stats?

The abbreviated Rulebook contains everything you need to play. It simply omits the lore and some of the extra fluff that goes in between the rules.

However if you want a real starter army, I'd recommend either one of the Start Collecting boxes or Betrayal at Calth (if you want space marines)

EDIT: I mean everything you need from the Big Rulebook. It does not include the Codex rules. If you can, see if you can find a store to browse their customer-copy codex to see which units you like. After reading through the core rulebook.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
The small set of rules will offer everything the big set has, but neither have the rules for the units themselves, they exist in the codexes.

Ahhhh, okay!! Thanks!

Will the rule set make it easier for me to pick the army I like based on their stats?

Uh.... you're probably a lot better off asking us here on Dakka about that, maybe suggest what kind of army you want to play and we can point you at an army?
Or you could go into a GW store if you have a local one and look at the store copies of the codex.

What army are you interested? If it's Space Marines, then Dark Vegence can be a great start because you don't have to use them as Dark Angels or Chaos Space Marines.

If you don't want to start with Space Marines, then as was said already, get one of the starter boxes.

As for rules, be careful. 6th edition only lasted like 20 months, 7th edition lasted longer, but can be invalid anytime now with 8th edition. There are no rumours for 8th edition yet, but how GW sprung 7th edition on us anything can happen.

I know I wasn't happy when I bought the iPad version for the 6th edition rules and it only lasted 3 months before 7th came out.

So buyer beware when it comes to rules. Also I believe you can buy "just the rules" now so don't have to spend $100 for the 3 books or the box set, you can get the "just the rules" but I don't know how much they cost.

I wouldn't be surprised if 8th edition popped up this summer. GW has pretty much ran out of codex to update other than the two Chaos ones (if the rumors about the SW one is true) so an edition reboot will be the only way they can reprint those dexes again.

If you just want to safe some €€€ then the Dark Vengeance Box is GREAT!

Pic the army you want to play (Dark Angels or Chaos) and sell the other on ebay.
Selling it usually gives you around 40€, so now you only paid 70-40=30€ for a Tac Squad (30€), a bike Squad (30€) and a terminator Squad (35€?) + you get the rulebook, the templates etc.

you save a LOT of money.

Unfortunately, if you dont want to play DA or Chaos, the box is not made for you.
Maybe watch some battle reports first?
I actually love my DA, great models, fun to play. (Deathwing Knights and Ravenwing Blackknights being my favourite models in the game)

Aeri wrote:

Maybe watch some battle reports first?

I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, but what is a "battle report"?

Edit: OH NVM!! I found them!

https://www.youtube.com/user/StrikingScorpion82

Striking Scorpion does some of the most entertaining Battle Reports.
He also does Codex reviews which might help you pick an army.

Just binge watch a little and maybe you find something you like particularly.
If you are interested in Dark Angels there is an in depth codex review on his chanel as well!

YES the set is worth it if you like one of the two armies.
If you do and sell off the other army you are having a great deal.

If you just want the book, buy the book.

Grab the book off ebay would be my suggestion. Pick an army that you like the look of as that will usually be more important than anything else as you're going to be spending way, way more time assembling, converting and painting said models than playing with them, and if you don't like how they look, your love for the army won't be as much, and your first army is special.

Unless you want to crush everyone, have no friends and get complained about, then you can just pick Eldar.

Dark Vengeance is probably the best, most economical boxed set GW makes. The miniatures are simple to put together, but they're also beautifully sculpted and loaded with detail. If painting is the primary reason you're getting into the hobby, Dark Vengeance has a wide variety of unit types from cheap and disposable cultists (to practice basic techniques) to mighty heroes of the Space Marines (where you'll really want to take your time and do as best you can) and literally everything in between.

The boxed set also contains the full rules for the game, as well as dice, templates, and range rulers. Barring basic hobby supplies, it really is the tabletop gaming hobby in a box. Just be careful: once you open it and start touching those dull, gray sprues of lifeless plastic, you might just be hooked for life

Yes the box includes the same rules as the big box. There are also abbreviated rules for the included forces but you'll need to buy the 'codex' for either army you chose to expand (or for any other armies you wish to start).

Between the rules and the models its a good value set compared to most other options, even if you are only really interested in painting a couple of the included squads.

If few of the models interest you other sets are available that include rules and models.

If you want to learn more about the setting the big box with the rulebook and the two other source books is nice.

Don't. Get Betrayal at Calth instead.

Completely Worthless.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Don't. Get Betrayal at Calth instead.

If you like those models instead of the dark vengeance models buy calth.
Note you still need the book templates and dice out -> you can get it cheap from someone selling it from dark vengeance
On top of that you will need a space marine codex or the relevant HH FW book and you are ready to play.

It's probably worth pointing out that if you mostly care about the modelling side, free rules systems like One Page 40K exist. It's fairly well received and while it's not a rulebook substitute in the sense that you can't use it to play against someone using the official rulebooks, its rules work as a completely separate game that happens to use 40K models.

https://onepagerules.wordpress.com/portfolio/one-page-40k/

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Don't. Get Betrayal at Calth instead.

If you like those models instead of the dark vengeance models buy calth.
Note you still need the book templates and dice out -> you can get it cheap from someone selling it from dark vengeance
On top of that you will need a space marine codex or the relevant HH FW book and you are ready to play.

Or you just want to game. Calth is practically a Demi Company in a box- you just need a squad of devastators and a squad of assault marines and you've got yourself a formation. DV meanwhile is just horrible- neither faction gets really good models besides the HQ and the Ravenwing Bikes.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Don't. Get Betrayal at Calth instead.

Yes, if you want to paint 30 of the same Space Marine fig in slightly different poses or a Contemptor doing his best impression of a statue, BaC is the perfect boxed set. And it's also more expensive. And a boardgame. And contains nothing whatsoever to help you play 40K. Other than that, it's perfect.

 Filch wrote:
Completely Worthless.

That is so helpful.

I just got an email from GW saying something about rule book for Android users. I think it's about $30 something. Not sure what funds that is in. So there is a good option if you just want the rules. Again, buyer be where. GW just released books on iPad and only lasted a few months.

Dark Vengeance (imo) is worth it if you're interested in starting Dark Angels or CSM. I've personally always been a fan of Tactical Marines, so the set was well worth it to me when I picked it up a few years ago. That being said. Betrayal at Calth is an amazing deal if you plan on playing any sort of Marine army. 30 Tac Marines, 5 Termies, Captain, Chaplain, Dreadnought, all for $150 (US). You would still have to get a rulebook, dice, and templates, but for sheer value, BaC takes the cake. Both of them are good starters.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Don't. Get Betrayal at Calth instead.

Yes, if you want to paint 30 of the same Space Marine fig in slightly different poses or a Contemptor doing his best impression of a statue, BaC is the perfect boxed set. And it's also more expensive. And a boardgame. And contains nothing whatsoever to help you play 40K. Other than that, it's perfect.

Except unlike Dark Vengeance, with Calth you have the start of a Space Marine army that isn't complete dog gak. Dark Vengeance is terrible for building an army. Chaos Space Marines are awful regardless, but the only good units in the box are the cultists and.... sorta the Hellbrute, but unless somebody is willing to accept different loadouts on the Chosen, for WYSIWYG they're awful. Dark Angels are a bit better, but you only get one squad of tactical marines, "meh" Deathwing, a single MSU bike squad, a terrible HQ, and one good HQ.

With Calth meanwhile you have an almost complete demi company. The only shortcoming is a lack of thunder hammers for the terminators and weapon choices for the tactical marines- but this can be fixed by buying bits. And only a moron buys Calth at full price. America and Britain have webstores that sell it for 20% off if you're not willing to go Ebay sniping to get it at some ridiculously low price. I picked up my Calth with a 20% webstore discount and combined christmas sale for $100.

But the OP's main concern wasn't in getting a mostly complete SM demi-company. He likes painting amd wants to learn more about the game. Dark Vengeance fits his needs better than BaC. He'll have plenty of time to have his enthusiasm crushed the first time he runs into a couple Wraithknights or a Tau army. Let him have his fun without worrying about tabletop effectiveness

 the_Armyman wrote:
But the OP's main concern wasn't in getting a mostly complete SM demi-company. He likes painting amd wants to learn more about the game. Dark Vengeance fits his needs better than BaC. He'll have plenty of time to have his enthusiasm crushed the first time he runs into a couple Wraithknights or a Tau army. Let him have his fun without worrying about tabletop effectiveness

Except Dark Vengeance is wasting money. Buy BOC, paint them all the same, play them as separate units to get a feel.

Dark vengence isn't really worth it. Other than cultists none of the chaos models are great and the dark angel ones are scuplted in such away that without doing a lot of work they cant be used for another army.

If you would like to learn about the lore for the armies, and specific characters that you learn about; then you should google Warhammer 40k wiki and you'll find a wikipedia of everything Warhammer 40k related.

If you are interested in reading more information on the backgrounds to factions before you plump the cash for some models, check out http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

This will give you a reasonable feel for the fluff and what faction you want to go with.

I personally would pick up the mini-rule book (which has all the games core rules but no fluff) and templates (flamer, small blast, large blast) from ebay and then get one of the army bundles and a codex (the book which contains all the rules for the models in your chosen army).

I don't know what online stores there are up in Canadashire but there will be some offering a 10-20% discount on GW stuff - far better buying from them than GW direct!

I'd say for the purposes of learning the game, DV is worth it.

You'll get the mini-rulebook which gives you the basic rules plus you'll have models to use to practice some of the mechanics. Once you get a little familiar with the mechanics and find that 40k is definitely something you want to get into, from there you can maybe sell/trade the models and get the models you want... maybe even then go for one of those BaC boxes. With the DV boxed set you'd be spending $110 + tax + maybe shipping (potentially... there are of course ways to get it below retail and sans tax and/or shipping)

BaC may seem like a better box... the models seem better... but there is no basic 40k rulebook with it... You'd have to get that separate. With the Bac Boxed set and maybe a mini-rulebook from eBay you'd be spending $150 (Bac) + $25 (mini-rulebook) + tax + maybe shipping (again, potentially).

 Wyzilla wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
But the OP's main concern wasn't in getting a mostly complete SM demi-company. He likes painting amd wants to learn more about the game. Dark Vengeance fits his needs better than BaC. He'll have plenty of time to have his enthusiasm crushed the first time he runs into a couple Wraithknights or a Tau army. Let him have his fun without worrying about tabletop effectiveness

Except Dark Vengeance is wasting money. Buy BOC, paint them all the same, play them as separate units to get a feel.

Buying BOC is a waste of money. That doesn't help play 40K at all. Where are your options to help him play and understand playing 40K? The minis for BOC are really not that great so spending $180 to me is a waste of money.