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Hey dakka,

I am thinking of starting a Horus Heresy army, but I'm not sure where to begin... I know there are various books containing rules, but I'm unclear of the contents of each one, and whether I'll have to buy more than one.

I've been playing 40k for a while, and am familiar with the rules, and love the fluff of the Horus Heresy. I like the 30K Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Night Lords and Death Guard, and I'm a little stumped on which one to collect.

Any advice, ideas or pointers would be REALLY appreciated, especially where to start in terms of the rule books.

Order a calth box and a legion upgrade pack for ten guys. If you regret the purchase and wish it had been a different legion exchange it. I find you aren't always sure until the wrong thing arrives, then it becomes more clear

Betrayal at Calth or two, a 40k Land Raider, some sort of 30k tank like the Sicaran or Deimos Predator. I made a 2000pt Ultramarine list out of just that and some bits. Nice and simple and not a lot of uniqueness to it, but it works to get me on the table. After that you build out more how you like.

Rules-wise, you'll need the red books. The first has the generic Army List, the second has the Legions you are interested in. The second book will literally give you all the units in each of the Legions you asked about except maybe one Raven Guard unit that just came out recently. I'm not sure about that because I don't follow Raven Guard.

Sit for a while and decide which of those legion's preferred tactics suits you as well as which colours you like, because you will be painting a lot of it.

Money is a good place to start.... Wakka Wakka

What legion you thinking of playing?

1) Ignore everybody suggesting that you build "sicarians and all the other strong stuff" This isn't 40k, if you want to just run all the big things, play 40k marines and bring a master of relics. They are good, but they should NEVER be the focus of your list unless you like non-fluffy games.

2) Pick whatever legion fluff you like, and build to match it. 30k really isn't competative, so build fluffy/using models you like. Personally, As a Death Guard player (in truth, this if fluffy for every legion, barring the apothecaries) I run a few 20-man tactical blobs with apothecaries and extra close combat weapons as it's the most fluffy option, looks amazing, and plays well. What I did was once I chose my legion(s), I built up a core (marines, terminators, HQs and what not) then I built 2 "fluffy" expansions (Dreadnoughts and Poison/phosphex/rad spam) for my Death Guard.

3) Calth is a good start, though it helps if you like MK IV armor. other wise, the old "go-to" starting point was the 30-man tactical pack and a praetor or other HQ pack. You can still do this with calth (which I recomend as Vet. Tacs. fit very few legions as a go-to force (and it generally doesn't to do well unless you're going against another vet. squad bringer) unless you have an army idea that uses them.) 2 15-man tactical sqads, 5 terminators, 2 HQs, and a contemptor (all what you get from calth) forms a really good base to expand off of in my oppinion.

For Rules: Wait untill February/March and pick up the new red books when they release. One of the books is the army list, and the other is all of the legion rules.

There is a online 30k Guide at the top of this forum which might help! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/673599.page

The actual rules are the same as 40k - it's the 40k Rulebook you use. It's the armies, equipment and FOC that make all the changes, so you just need the Army List for the army you're using and that will tell you how to build a 30k army.

If you're doing Marines, there's a base Army List for all the chapters (Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List) and then each legion has a couple of pages of supplemental rules, characters, etc. The supplemental rules for the legions you mentioned are in the Isstvan Campaign Legions book - but this is out of print at the moment as it's being updated.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
...except maybe one Raven Guard unit that just came out recently. I'm not sure about that because I don't follow Raven Guard.

All Raven Guard units are in that book, the Dark Furies and Mor Deythan were both in the book that introduced the Raven Guard.


For how to start, I recommend looking at the Legions, seeing which has rules that fit your play style or that you would like to use and which has models you like the best. Look at color scheme, variations of that, maybe the fluff. Then I'd suggest a BaC box or two, one or two of the Legion Special Units, maybe some FW upgrades for extra zest on those basic models.

Brennonjw has it right. 30k is about fluff and cool thematic armies not competition despite what the new guys are trying to turn it into. The two red books will serve you well unless you want UM, blood angles, white scars, 1k sons or space puppies. Um is in a different book and the rest do not have specific legion rules yet.

My advice is find a cool color scheme you want to paint from the legions since you will be painting a lot of it. There are minor to major variations within each legion. I really like the mostly black with yellow pad version of the Fists for example but am not a fan of the bright yellow and would be miserable painting it.

Don't buy anything from FW until you know exactly what you want or you end up starting new legions armies just to use vehicles and parts you didn't use for your main legion.

SharkoutofWata wrote:Rules-wise, you'll need the red books. The first has the generic Army List, the second has the Legions you are interested in. The second book will literally give you all the units in each of the Legions you asked about except maybe one Raven Guard unit that just came out recently. I'm not sure about that because I don't follow Raven Guard.

Red books... gotcha. Thanks for the reply.

Formosa wrote:Money is a good place to start.... Wakka Wakka

What legion you thinking of playing?

Either RG, DG or IH.

Brennonjw wrote:1) Ignore everybody suggesting that you build "sicarians and all the other strong stuff" This isn't 40k, if you want to just run all the big things, play 40k marines and bring a master of relics. They are good, but they should NEVER be the focus of your list unless you like non-fluffy games.

2) Pick whatever legion fluff you like, and build to match it. 30k really isn't competative, so build fluffy/using models you like. Personally, As a Death Guard player (in truth, this if fluffy for every legion, barring the apothecaries) I run a few 20-man tactical blobs with apothecaries and extra close combat weapons as it's the most fluffy option, looks amazing, and plays well. What I did was once I chose my legion(s), I built up a core (marines, terminators, HQs and what not) then I built 2 "fluffy" expansions (Dreadnoughts and Poison/phosphex/rad spam) for my Death Guard.

3) Calth is a good start, though it helps if you like MK IV armor. other wise, the old "go-to" starting point was the 30-man tactical pack and a praetor or other HQ pack. You can still do this with calth (which I recomend as Vet. Tacs. fit very few legions as a go-to force (and it generally doesn't to do well unless you're going against another vet. squad bringer) unless you have an army idea that uses them.) 2 15-man tactical sqads, 5 terminators, 2 HQs, and a contemptor (all what you get from calth) forms a really good base to expand off of in my oppinion.

For Rules: Wait untill February/March and pick up the new red books when they release. One of the books is the army list, and the other is all of the legion rules.

OK. Will the new legion rules book have ALL of the legions' rules released so far?

 Foamy248 wrote:

What legion you thinking of playing?

Either RG, DG or IH.

Brennonjw wrote:1) Ignore everybody suggesting that you build "sicarians and all the other strong stuff" This isn't 40k, if you want to just run all the big things, play 40k marines and bring a master of relics. They are good, but they should NEVER be the focus of your list unless you like non-fluffy games.

2) Pick whatever legion fluff you like, and build to match it. 30k really isn't competative, so build fluffy/using models you like. Personally, As a Death Guard player (in truth, this if fluffy for every legion, barring the apothecaries) I run a few 20-man tactical blobs with apothecaries and extra close combat weapons as it's the most fluffy option, looks amazing, and plays well. What I did was once I chose my legion(s), I built up a core (marines, terminators, HQs and what not) then I built 2 "fluffy" expansions (Dreadnoughts and Poison/phosphex/rad spam) for my Death Guard.

3) Calth is a good start, though it helps if you like MK IV armor. other wise, the old "go-to" starting point was the 30-man tactical pack and a praetor or other HQ pack. You can still do this with calth (which I recomend as Vet. Tacs. fit very few legions as a go-to force (and it generally doesn't to do well unless you're going against another vet. squad bringer) unless you have an army idea that uses them.) 2 15-man tactical sqads, 5 terminators, 2 HQs, and a contemptor (all what you get from calth) forms a really good base to expand off of in my oppinion.

For Rules: Wait untill February/March and pick up the new red books when they release. One of the books is the army list, and the other is all of the legion rules.

OK. Will the new legion rules book have ALL of the legions' rules released so far?

They should, being that the old red book that had the legion rules is discontinued.

Also, go RG or DG, unless you really like IH, and not just their legion rules. You NEED a lot of vehicles to do a IH force, so they tend to cost more then other legions.

 Brennonjw wrote:
They should, being that the old red book that had the legion rules is discontinued.

Also, go RG or DG, unless you really like IH, and not just their legion rules. You NEED a lot of vehicles to do a IH force, so they tend to cost more then other legions.

Bummer. I was thinking of going IH... that's ok, though.

Another question: does a HH game game have to be over a certaiin number of points to use a primarch?

 Foamy248 wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
They should, being that the old red book that had the legion rules is discontinued.

Also, go RG or DG, unless you really like IH, and not just their legion rules. You NEED a lot of vehicles to do a IH force, so they tend to cost more then other legions.

Bummer. I was thinking of going IH... that's ok, though.

Another question: does a HH game game have to be over a certaiin number of points to use a primarch?

HH games have a few rules:
No Lords of war under 2,000 points, and you can spend tops 25% of your total points on a lord of war. generally, if I'm thinking of prices right, 2,000 is the minimum to bring a primarch

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Foamy248 wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
They should, being that the old red book that had the legion rules is discontinued.

Also, go RG or DG, unless you really like IH, and not just their legion rules. You NEED a lot of vehicles to do a IH force, so they tend to cost more then other legions.

Bummer. I was thinking of going IH... that's ok, though.

Another question: does a HH game game have to be over a certaiin number of points to use a primarch?

HH games have a few rules:
No Lords of war under 2,000 points, and you can spend tops 25% of your total points on a lord of war. generally, if I'm thinking of prices right, 2,000 is the minimum to bring a primarch

Awesome. Would you recommend using a primarch at 2000 points? It would definitely lessen the amount of models on the table...

I don't see why not. They are super-units for sure. I just started Raven Guard personally and got in my first game with the BaC box at 1500 points right out of the box! I am thinking of getting a land raider for my terminators and another BaC box to completely fill out the infantry for my 30k legion force. Adding things like storm eagles, fire raptors, sicarans and of course papa raven himself - at a later date.

BaC is good for RG because Deliverance was a forge world and they could mass produce the MKIV armor, which I think looks sick. There are quite a few studs, but since I'm either going to freehand or get a FW transfer sheet it's cool to have the extra decoration. The cataphractii terminators are sick though. Wonderful models!

Let us know what you decide!

 Castellan Alaric wrote:
I don't see why not. They are super-units for sure. I just started Raven Guard personally and got in my first game with the BaC box at 1500 points right out of the box! I am thinking of getting a land raider for my terminators and another BaC box to completely fill out the infantry for my 30k legion force. Adding things like storm eagles, fire raptors, sicarans and of course papa raven himself - at a later date.

BaC is good for RG because Deliverance was a forge world and they could mass produce the MKIV armor, which I think looks sick. There are quite a few studs, but since I'm either going to freehand or get a FW transfer sheet it's cool to have the extra decoration. The cataphractii terminators are sick though. Wonderful models!

Let us know what you decide!

Awesome! Thanks for that.

 Foamy248 wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Foamy248 wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
They should, being that the old red book that had the legion rules is discontinued.

Also, go RG or DG, unless you really like IH, and not just their legion rules. You NEED a lot of vehicles to do a IH force, so they tend to cost more then other legions.

Bummer. I was thinking of going IH... that's ok, though.

Another question: does a HH game game have to be over a certaiin number of points to use a primarch?

HH games have a few rules:
No Lords of war under 2,000 points, and you can spend tops 25% of your total points on a lord of war. generally, if I'm thinking of prices right, 2,000 is the minimum to bring a primarch

Awesome. Would you recommend using a primarch at 2000 points? It would definitely lessen the amount of models on the table...

I'm not sure, actually. The lowest I've run Mortarion was a 2,500 point game. I think it's a lot of the "make sure it's good with your buddy" before you bring something that "big" if you will.

So, you want to go with Iron Hands, Death Guard or Raven Guard?

Read the relevant fluff again, for each legion all in a small time-frame so you know a whole bunch about each.

Give each Legion a number and roll a D3. If you're disappointed you know not to choose that one (And be honest with yourself if you are). That's how I choose my stuff.

Just remember the no more than 25% of your total army part. Do be sure to clear with your opponent if you are bringing a super heavy or LoW at that points level. We usually don't start dropping primarchs until the 3k+ point. I Don't know if its standard everywhere but we ask our opponent if he doesn't mind if we bring one since they do take a good bit of prep to fight against them. Goes along with rule #1.

Actually an all infantry IH army is perfectly viable and works well with the legion specific rules. -1 to wound them is pretty damn good. Bolters are needing 5s to wound them.

TheManWithNoPlan wrote:So, you want to go with Iron Hands, Death Guard or Raven Guard?

Read the relevant fluff again, for each legion all in a small time-frame so you know a whole bunch about each.

Give each Legion a number and roll a D3. If you're disappointed you know not to choose that one (And be honest with yourself if you are). That's how I choose my stuff.

Yah, thanks for that. I think I've decided on Iron Hands.

Col. Dash wrote:Just remember the no more than 25% of your total army part. Do be sure to clear with your opponent if you are bringing a super heavy or LoW at that points level. We usually don't start dropping primarchs until the 3k+ point. I Don't know if its standard everywhere but we ask our opponent if he doesn't mind if we bring one since they do take a good bit of prep to fight against them. Goes along with rule #1.

Actually an all infantry IH army is perfectly viable and works well with the legion specific rules. -1 to wound them is pretty damn good. Bolters are needing 5s to wound them.

IDK how competitive bringing a primarch at lower than 3000 pt. games would be, but I think my friend would be OK with it. I guess it'd be important to check every time, though.

Primarch's are good, but they're not broken good, and they cost alot of guacamole to bring in most cases. Dumping that many points into one unit can be considered a liability in a lower points game, to be honest. I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not to use a Primarch in this or that game. The rules kind of do this for you, as you can't bring one in a sub-2000 point game, so there's the hard cutoff. Give it a go at 2000. If the Primarch ends up being too strong in 2000 point games with your friends, simply make a note and don't use him again except in a higher points game.

For Iron Hands and Death Guard the battle for calth gives you a great starting point that fits the theme you're looking for, not so much for raven guard or night lords

Spyro_Killer wrote:
For Iron Hands and Death Guard the battle for calth gives you a great starting point that fits the theme you're looking for, not so much for raven guard or night lords

Nah, Calth isn't "good" for Iron Hands and Death Guard. Both hardly used MK IV armor, Iron hands need more vehicles then Calth has. It's a good spring board so long as you don't use it as "3 10-man vet squads" but one of the first buys for both army would be MK III armor and vehicles (for IH at least).

Honestly, if you could get some jump packs (or run them as terror squads ), Calth fits RG and NL since they both extensively used MK IV (and MK VI for RG)

 Brennonjw wrote:

Spyro_Killer wrote:
For Iron Hands and Death Guard the battle for calth gives you a great starting point that fits the theme you're looking for, not so much for raven guard or night lords

Nah, Calth isn't "good" for Iron Hands and Death Guard. Both hardly used MK IV armor, Iron hands need more vehicles then Calth has. It's a good spring board so long as you don't use it as "3 10-man vet squads" but one of the first buys for both army would be MK III armor and vehicles (for IH at least).

Honestly, if you could get some jump packs (or run them as terror squads ), Calth fits RG and NL since they both extensively used MK IV (and MK VI for RG)

If that's the case then if you just slightly look past the armour mark it'd save him a few hundred quid


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And anyway it was to be start, any vehicles et. al. could be added to get a decent sized list

Hmmm...

150 bucks for 2 HQs, 5 Termies, 30 Marines, and a Contemptor - plastic

-or-

401 bucks for for 2 HQs, 5 Termies, 30 Marines, and a Contemptor - resin

Seems like a pretty easy choice to me...

 jasper76 wrote:
Hmmm...

150 bucks for 2 HQs, 5 Termies, 30 Marines, and a Contemptor - plastic

-or-

401 bucks for for 2 HQs, 5 Termies, 30 Marines, and a Contemptor - resin

Seems like a pretty easy choice to me...

Or 300 bucks for 4 HQs, 10 Temies, 60 Marines and Two Contemptors.

I know it's cheaper, but I really do with GW would knock it off and gimme plastic MK III :(

 Brennonjw wrote:
I know it's cheaper, but I really do with GW would knock it off and gimme plastic MK III :(

I would imagine that is something that is coming down the pipeline at some point. It would make too much money for them not too. And when it does, my planned Death Guard will be more than just a Terminator force.

 Brennonjw wrote:
I know it's cheaper, but I really do with GW would knock it off and gimme plastic MK III :(

I wish everything GW and FW make in resin was converted to plastics. I really don't like resin minis.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
I know it's cheaper, but I really do with GW would knock it off and gimme plastic MK III :(

I wish everything GW and FW make in resin was converted to plastics. I really don't like resin minis.

I like the extra detail you get with resin (compare Calth's cataphractii and MK IV to Forge world's), but I don't like the inherent risk that comes with a more fragile substance like resin.