Tactical squad loadout

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**next gen marines**

What is the most competitive way to run tacs excluding formations. A comment could be say 5 man, plasma, rhino.

**Deschenus Maximus**

10 strong, plasmagun, gravcannon, drop pod with deathwind.

**next gen marines**

Why the death wind on the pod?

**Deschenus Maximus**

It adds a nice little bit of anti-infantry at a fairly cheap price. Feel free to drop them though if points are tight.

**next gen marines**

I have never liked them because of there short range but I can see you're reasons for having them

**Leth**

So army dependent that I have magnetized every special and heavy weapons trooper I have.

**The_Grey_Knight**

next gen marines wrote:
I have never liked them because of there short range but I can see you're reasons for having them

The short range shouldn't be a problem, I think. As they are taken on a tac squad, the drop pod will have objective secure and so dropping it on an objective will force your opponent to come to you to get rid of it really, as they don't want to waste their long range high strength weapons on a drop pod.

**Lammikkovalas**

5 marines with a special weapon and a matching combi-weapon in a Rhino or a Pod. If you absolutely have to bring tacticals I'd say this is the way to go.

Although I have to say that I had a lot of fun playing against my friend today, we both brought loads of tacticals and it was a blast. Sadly the fun and efficiency are inversely related to each other.

**Drasius**

Leaving them on a shelf and taking scouts in a storm instead.

If you must take some to get an odd number of pods, then either a 5 man with grav and combi grav or 10 man with grav, combi grav and grav cannon, depending on how frugal you want to be with your points. The pod means reduced range for salvo doesn't matter and grav needs no explaination as to why it's taken unless you fight nothing but daemons, bug carpet and non 'eavy armour boys (which with the removal of the green tide should be a reliative rarity).

**next gen marines**

The_Grey_Knight wrote:
next gen marines wrote:
I have never liked them because of there short range but I can see you're reasons for having them

The short range shouldn't be a problem, I think. As they are taken on a tac squad, the drop pod will have objective secure and so dropping it on an objective will force your opponent to come to you to get rid of it really, as they don't want to waste their long range high strength weapons on a drop pod.

I see you're point but as the drop pod is immobile it can't keep up with the enemies army. Obviously against nids and green tide orks it is very useful as you only need one shot to get you're points back however against grey Knights and other elite armies it is not as effective. Your point about objectives is a good one yet it is only a 1 in 3 chance you get a direct hit and land slap bang on an objective.

**HoundsofDemos**

Unless your going for at least a Demi Company then don't bother. Scouts in Storms are so much better. Even in a Demi/Battle company, 5 man either a special or a Grav cannon and Sarge with a combi. Nothing else really works competitively

**next gen marines**

How to loadout scouts in a storm then

**Slayer-Fan123**

That entirely depends on what you need. Shotguns are the best though.

**next gen marines**

Where can you use a shotgun?

**Lammikkovalas**

next gen marines wrote:
Where can you use a shotgun?

In the shooting phase or overwatch.

**next gen marines**

I meant where can you take a shotgun sorry

**Drasius**

Any Scout can exchange his bolter for one, including the sarge

**next gen marines**

What are a shotguns stats

**Lammikkovalas**

next gen marines wrote:
What are a shotguns stats

The stats are on page 177 of the rule book. The forum is not a substitute for the BRB.

**next gen marines**

Thanks I just couldn't be bothered to get my codex and flick through it

**Loricatus Aurora**

Can we pls get a run through of scouts in LSS for players out of the game awhile?
Also why grav so dominant now?
Sorry for dumb questions, flyers in early 6th saw me rage quit a few years but im coming back.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Know what scouts in lss are, more why tactics good/what tactics pls.

**Nevelon**

Loricatus Aurora wrote:
Can we pls get a run through of scouts in LSS for players out of the game awhile?
Also why grav so dominant now?
Sorry for dumb questions, flyers in early 6th saw me rage quit a few years but im coming back.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Know what scouts in lss are, more why tactics good/what tactics pls.

What flyers were to 6th, Monsterous creatures/GMC are to 7th. There are a lot of very high toughness things with 2+ (sometimes just 3+) saves. Often with many wounds. Grav can wound them easily, and has the ROF to burn through the wounds. It also does a decent job of stripping hull points off vehicles. It’s the tool you need to deal with all the irritating stuff out there.

Scouts went back to W/BS 4. So the shoot just about as well as tacs. Maelstrom missions makes getting to objectives in a timely manner more important, so their mobility and speed (especially with the LSS) is a major plus. Also, with all the firepower being tossed around these days, the difference between a 3+ and a 4+ save is not as great as it once was.

**Xenomancers**

I'll explain why the scouts in storm is better than tacs.

#1 reason for me is usability/mobility.
Infiltrate and scout means turn 1 they can be grabbing any objective and/or engaging something on their list of priorities.
#2 Open topped skimmer with 2 heavy weapons.
When this unit engages first it hits hard -
3 str 5 shots a str 4 blind large blast and 10 str 4 bolter shots. This is all coming from a unit that costs 95 points stock.
#3 Deceptively hard to remove.
Jinking in cover means you got to dedicate a decent amount of fire to bring down the storm (can't tell you how many times this bird has lived through 4-5 heavy weapons with oppoents scratching their heads)....then you got t4 bodies with 4+ saves you got to remove too. Easier to kill than marines but to most weapons in the game - they die at about the same rate.

For the price of that unit you get a 5 man tac with a las cannon....or a 5 man with an assualt and combi and no transport. (in GSF you get a free transport too) you see though - even when the transport is free - you still get less firepower than the scouts and less mobility than the scouts...

**Loricatus Aurora**

Thanks Nev and Xeno

So devastators with heavy grav is a no brainer?

If you did take tacs would you still take LC for backfield work? Or now grav?

LSS have one and will now build and test out thanks

**Nevelon**

Grav cannons on Devs has two problems: It’s very expensive, and short ranged. I’d hesitate to call it a no brainer, as these are two fairly significant issues.

Personally, I’d consider gravs more for tac squads. But I still like 10 man ones, which are not particularly popular in the competitive circles. Grav cannons can be fired well on the move, and the tacs are going forward anyway. And I’m just buying one or two of them, not 4x for the Devs, so the points don’t seem so bad.

That said, if you are doing a drop list, especially skyhammer, 4 in a pod will melt someone’s face off.

YMMV.

**HoundsofDemos**

Unless your going a skyhammer I'd recommend two gravs per dev squad and put them in a rhino and basically use it as a 24 inch bubble of stay away or die.

**Xenomancers**

^yes - 2 mand devs with 2 grav cannon is nice.

**Loricatus Aurora**

Ok so let me put this to you guys, and its roughly on OP topic

Tac squad with grav cannon in box
LSS little proxy vanguard harrassment
Small dev squad with 2 grav cannons
Vanguard armed to the teeth

Are all good viable elements in sm strategy at present?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
*dev squad w 2 grav cannons and a box of their own..

**Likan Wolfsheim**

Loricatus Aurora wrote:
Ok so let me put this to you guys, and its roughly on OP topic

Tac squad with grav cannon in box
LSS little proxy vanguard harrassment
Small dev squad with 2 grav cannons
Vanguard armed to the teeth

Are all good viable elements in sm strategy at present?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
*dev squad w 2 grav cannons and a box of their own..

For the most part that seems about right. If you're running an army with a lot of pods, but not using Skyhammer for whatever reason, then Grav/Heavy Grav tac squads seem to make a decent filler for the 2 troop slots.

And I was under the impression that Vanguard Veterans, bare, fully bling'd, or anywhere in between, were sorta on the 'not very good at all' side of things. But I'm not terribly familiar with the 7th edition marine book, so maybe that's changed.

**Loricatus Aurora**

I can so see GW nerfing grav soon. Just as soon as we all build out tacs and devs full of them. Bling, now you need sonic weapons!