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Why does everyone seem to prefer Drones? I understand they are a bit faster. But the beasts have more wounds per point, IWND, and also have 4+ poison.

You can attach heralds just as easily.

Plus, with the new Daemon wargear if one of your heralds takes Grotti the Nurgling and lowers the toughness of your opponents, so it's just as good as 3+ poison that the Drones get.

Opinions?

Drones are faster. They can move in the Assault phase as well. They are less random with their attacks. They can cause Instant Death. Most importantly, they can move over screening units.

Ah but while random, the beasts have more attacks on average (d6+1) per model.

Do drone players even take the insta death sting? I feel like it's usually the 3+ poison.

Budzerker wrote:
Ah but while random, the beasts have more attacks on average (d6+1) per model.

Do drone players even take the insta death sting? I feel like it's usually the 3+ poison.

Death Sting on a champion w/ aetherblade gives the unit a master crafted ap2 instant death attack

Taking both seems like a fun option

Reavas wrote:
Taking both seems like a fun option

Sadly you can't take both 3+ poison and instant death attacks

 jy2 wrote:
Drones are faster. They can move in the Assault phase as well. They are less random with their attacks. They can cause Instant Death. Most importantly, they can move over screening units.

I always forget that they can move in the assault phase - Darn it! Thanks for the reminder.

What sells me on taking my drones is the Icon so I can get those perfect deepstrikes.

Better movement isn't something to overlook. It's what makes a unit actually playable.

While I won't disagree that Drones are the better Tactical option, there are a few differences that (combined with playstyle) can make Beasts a better option in certain lists.

If taking a Herald in the unit, some players consider the "Jet" movement void. They site that the assault move is available for "units" of Jet-packs, which the Herald is not. This may not be an issue in your area, but it is in mine. This means that once the Herald joins, Drones and Beasts move at the same speed.

But lets say that you don't take a Herald, or your area is more lenient on the Jet-pack rules. Beasts are Elites in a codex of not-so-good Elite choices and really good Fast Attack choices. I personally always have my Fast attacks filled with either Hounds or Screamers. This makes Beasts a much more appealing choice for me, especially since Drones can be summoned.

Another difference is the smaller footprint. Beasts are on 40mm bases (according to GW website, go ahead, look it up) and are not on flight stands. You also only need 1 minimum (although at least 2 is advised). This means they are MUCH easier to hide for a sneak attack.

In short: If you are running mono-Nurgle, take Beasts AND Drones. If you are more diverse, consider your play style.

--

Something no one has mentioned is drones also have touch of rust. Meaning that if you find yourself against a dreadnought other armor, a beast is wasted, while a drone can harm it.

Hell a blob of drones could take out a titan!

@Galef - Some rules say "A unit composed entirely of..." However with jetpack, it does not, the unit is still a jetpack unit, they just have a non jetpack IC with them. Considering every major tournament also rules that way, you have some pretty butt headed people in your area.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

@Galef - Some rules say "A unit composed entirely of..." However with jetpack, it does not, the unit is still a jetpack unit, they just have a non jetpack IC with them. Considering every major tournament also rules that way, you have some pretty butt headed people in your area.

Most of the players in my area are pretty laid back, but every now and then someone points this out. Makes Necron Destroyer Lords a pain to play.

Overall, though, Drones > Beasts, pretty much all for the versatility. Drones are customizable
But for me Hounds & Screamers > Drones meaning Beasts are my only option....or double CAD. But If I do double CAD I am more likely to run 6 units of 1-2 Beasts as MSU annoyance.

 Galef wrote:
While I won't disagree that Drones are the better Tactical option, there are a few differences that (combined with playstyle) can make Beasts a better option in certain lists.

If taking a Herald in the unit, some players consider the "Jet" movement void. They site that the assault move is available for "units" of Jet-packs, which the Herald is not. This may not be an issue in your area, but it is in mine. This means that once the Herald joins, Drones and Beasts move at the same speed.

But lets say that you don't take a Herald, or your area is more lenient on the Jet-pack rules. Beasts are Elites in a codex of not-so-good Elite choices and really good Fast Attack choices. I personally always have my Fast attacks filled with either Hounds or Screamers. This makes Beasts a much more appealing choice for me, especially since Drones can be summoned.

Another difference is the smaller footprint. Beasts are on 40mm bases (according to GW website, go ahead, look it up) and are not on flight stands. You also only need 1 minimum (although at least 2 is advised). This means they are MUCH easier to hide for a sneak attack.

In short: If you are running mono-Nurgle, take Beasts AND Drones. If you are more diverse, consider your play style.

--

Thats a pretty preposterous argument though - do Jet Pack units lose Bulky when joined by an IC too?

 Galef wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:

@Galef - Some rules say "A unit composed entirely of..." However with jetpack, it does not, the unit is still a jetpack unit, they just have a non jetpack IC with them. Considering every major tournament also rules that way, you have some pretty butt headed people in your area.

Most of the players in my area are pretty laid back, but every now and then someone points this out. Makes Necron Destroyer Lords a pain to play.

Overall, though, Drones > Beasts, pretty much all for the versatility. Drones are customizable
But for me Hounds & Screamers > Drones meaning Beasts are my only option....or double CAD. But If I do double CAD I am more likely to run 6 units of 1-2 Beasts as MSU annoyance.

Oh yeah, I find that a 15-20 strong unit of hounds and herald will do better than the same points in drones. with screamers its hit or miss for me. I just have preference to nurgle. Come to think of it, its been a long, long time since I ran a hound blob, ill have to do that soon!

Beasts with move through cover amd shrouded are good for running up to the midfield tp grab objectives in cover - especially good since they're available as solo models.

MSU Beasts are also great against Eldar and especially Tau. In 6th ed, I was able to wipe whole Tau armies because I placed a Beast in cover and declared a charge. Usually not enough marker lights hit to get rid of the cover from the Beast and the Tau player feels the need to put a lot of fire into the Beast to bring it down. Even if they succeed, that takes SOOOO much fire away from my Hounds or Screamers that were right next to the Beast. I have never played with Seekers, but I imagine this tactic is even more useful for them since they are so squishy.

Against Eldar it takes multiple untis of Scatterbikes to down 1 Beast in cover. Most of the time they'll ignore them, deciding to kill squishier targets. 1 Beast can trap and kill 1 unit of bikes that cost much more that itself. Yes, I know Eldar jetbikes are the fastest unit in the game as I play Eldar and Daemons, but I can tell you from experience that if you flood the board with threats, the bikes have no where to go with out something neat that can charge.

But again, this is only for MSU play style with multiple threats. This is the only time the Beasts out shine the Drones. Drones are better in every other situation. If you want to take units of 1-2, take Beasts, 3+ take Drones

--

1500 points :

Gorepack
3 bikes, 2 melta, meltabombs
3 bikes, 2 melta, meltabombs
5 Fleshhounds
5 Fleshhounds
5 Fleshhounds
Rotswarm
HoN, ML1, LoF, Doomsday Bell
5 Plaguedrones
1 Beast of Nurgle
1 Beast
1 Beast
1 Beast
1 Beast
1 Beast
Allied detachment
HoT, ML3, Disc, Paradox
Hok, Jugger, Axe
11 Pink Horrors
6 Screamers

Flood the field in fast threats...

Woah that's nasty Cilithan

or also rotswarm+murder horde you lost psy support but you spam lot of fastwounds some very resilient
murder horde
herald juggernaut ealted locus lesser reward
7x6 hounds
7 hounds
rotswarm
6x1 beast of nurgle
5 palgue drones with champion+less reward
nurgle herald with fertility locus and lesser reward
about 140 fast and durable wounds, with a good melee power.

 Cilithan wrote:
1500 points :

Gorepack
3 bikes, 2 melta, meltabombs
3 bikes, 2 melta, meltabombs
5 Fleshhounds
5 Fleshhounds
5 Fleshhounds
Rotswarm
HoN, ML1, LoF, Doomsday Bell
5 Plaguedrones
1 Beast of Nurgle
1 Beast
1 Beast
1 Beast
1 Beast
1 Beast
Allied detachment
HoT, ML3, Disc, Paradox
Hok, Jugger, Axe
11 Pink Horrors
6 Screamers

Flood the field in fast threats...

Awesome list idea. Just keep in mind that the HoK cannot join any of those Hounds b/c the Herald has Instability and the Hounds do not.

how can you use two formation coming from different factions with CAD/allied coming not from same faction? ITC rules?

He has to choose his Warlord from the DaemonKin formation, so that it is his Primary detachment, allowing the Daemons to field an Allied detachment.

the RotSwarm formation has me thinking that the new go-to will be 6 solo beasts of nurgle with a drone star.
I always run beast stars because I like the models better (i use forgeworld plague toads).

I also run epidimus and the beasts seem to do more damage as they get buffed/grimoired. A bit tougher, a bit more resilient, more attacks.
that said, no touch of rust hurts, and it REALLY hurts when you roll a 1 or a 2 for your random attacks. especially if it's a few times in a row.

now that i can run a big drone star and take a ton of solo beasts I'm super happy. they're perfect on their own. fast, big, they get in the way. they can tie things up. they're perfect, fluffy monsters to let your drone star go nuts.

you think Nurgle would be viable? i mean play tallyband+rotswarm seems a two speed list where nurglings useful just to keep obj, or maybe play rotswarm with some Tz support or like this?
murderhorde
7x6 hounds
8 hounds
herald juggernaut lesser reward locus of wrath
rotswarm
6x1 nurgle beasts
nurgle herald less reward locus of fertility
5 drones champion with lesser reward
lot of fast wounds and good melee power, but not psyonic


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:
He has to choose his Warlord from the DaemonKin formation, so that it is his Primary detachment, allowing the Daemons to field an Allied detachment.

and where is warlord in that formation?

Warlords do not have to be characters if you have no characters in the detachment, just pick ANY model. However, if the rule states "army", then you are correct, he must choose a model in a different detachment, since those have characters, making the list illegal.

The simple solution is to add a nurgle unit to the "Allied" and make is a CAD. Or upgrade 1 CSM biker to be a character

That bike unit already has a Champion.

Good spot Galef about the HoK not being able to join the Hounds. I could replace it by either a second Nurgle character or a third bike squad in the Gorepack to help with superheavies or Walkers. That last option also helps generate bloodpoints to recycle one Fleshhound squad once.

Cilithan