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So my friends want me to get into 30,the thing is, I have enough marines and armies for the time being
So, I know I can use my IG as milita and no one will care with how customizable they are. But fluff wise, how could it work? these are standard cadians with Empire headswaps.
I know it isnt really gonna matter, but their all fluffy, Loyalist Vs. Traitor only. And while they dont care, I want to join in the fun.

Imperial Guard will work perfectly as Imperial Militia. They varied to an immense degree, and Cadians with Empire heads should fit that very well.

I wouldn't use them as SA though. SA have carapace armor and supercharged lasguns, with a much more standardised appearance.

what he said. You could use IG as a temp stand in (the storm trooper models would be even better, but those are actually MORE expensive then forge world since they are 20-man squad sizes)

I think Tempestus could work but regular IG don't have the bulky void hardened carapace armor to look like appropriate SA.

I also think your army is absolutely perfect for Imperialis Militia, so much so that previously I felt what you did in reality with Cadian bodies/Empire headswaps was the ideal way to reflect an Imperialis Militia army.

I also agree with the others it doesn't fit Solar Auxilia as their Void Armour really does look different, they're actually more like spacesuits for use in vacuums (as reflected in the Zone Mortalis game rules).

In fact, with an Imperialis Militia army, you can choose what's called "Provenances" to reflect your army. With the Empire headswaps, I can easily see them as "Warrior Elite", meaning they get +1 Leadership across the board. You'll find the details in Horus Heresy V: Tempest.

TL;DR - your army is like a perfect example for Imperialis Militia and the amazing thing is it's already made! That's why we suggest you going with that.

they just seem so....limited in what I can take.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
they just seem so....limited in what I can take.

militia are limited (as are the solar auxilia, realistically), but even with those limitations, they can be (and are) really fun armies to play.

How so?

What is it you're trying to take that the Militia won't allow you to field?


You may need to reorganise a few squads; rather than a command squad with a few lasguns and an assault weapon, and a few squads with an assault weapon and heavy weapon each, for example, you can field a pure grenade launcher command section, a couple of pure lascarbine infantry squads, and a heavy support squad of several weapons teams.

I'd recommend looking at stronghold assault bastions, by the way. Imperialis militia aren't tough and have shonky leadership. Bunkers and defence lines are often a good call.

Well lightning Fighters, I like those.
but im looking around and I think it might actually be up my ally. I decided to go Abhuman Helots and Survivors. And give my commander the merchant princeling warlord trait to give my autocannons/ heavy bolters AP3 or my missiles AP2. OR myearthshakers ap2
Im also now thinking of a Baneblade maybe.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well lightning Fighters, I like those.
but im looking around and I think it might actually be up my ally. I decided to go Abhuman Helots and Survivors. And give my commander the merchant princeling warlord trait to give my autocannons/ heavy bolters AP3 or my missiles AP2. OR myearthshakers ap2
Im also now thinking of a Baneblade maybe.

Just so you are aware with Survivors, you must take grenadiers as required troop choices. These grenadiers have their carapace armour replaced with power armour. Also your bassic dudes that make up the rest of the army aren't exactly WYSIWYG in regards to carapace armour. Survivors is one of the harder ones to represent. You bassicly need to put empire heads on plastic calth spacemariens or something silly to represent them.

Also nothing about your army screams "abhuman". Abhuman means your guys are like squats or Beastmen. I get you want this one for access to collars on all your units, but your not realy representing the T4/I2. Also takeing abhumans makes it harder to take allies, witch the milita can realy use.

For the guys you have I would say Warrior Elites+Alchem-Jackers. Everything in your army get's +1Ld and the Stubborn USR. I know this combo doesn't give you any amazing "whoa" gimmicks with your army. But the nice thing about this is that their relay isn't any downsides or restrictions, and no wired WYSIWYG modelling. They keep their drugs in their pockets. done.

This is probably the most "vanilla" combo, But it will let you take any units you want and alot of them.

 Lockark wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well lightning Fighters, I like those.
but im looking around and I think it might actually be up my ally. I decided to go Abhuman Helots and Survivors. And give my commander the merchant princeling warlord trait to give my autocannons/ heavy bolters AP3 or my missiles AP2. OR myearthshakers ap2
Im also now thinking of a Baneblade maybe.

Just so you are aware with Survivors, you must take grenadiers as required troop choices. These grenadiers have their carapace armour replaced with power armour. Also your bassic dudes that make up the rest of the army aren't exactly WYSIWYG in regards to carapace armour. Survivors is one of the harder ones to represent. You bassicly need to put empire heads on plastic calth spacemariens or something silly to represent them.

Also nothing about your army screams "abhuman". Abhuman means your guys are like squats or Beastmen. I get you want this one for access to collars on all your units, but your not realy representing the T4/I2. Also takeing abhumans makes it harder to take allies, witch the milita can realy use.

For the guys you have I would say Warrior Elites+Alchem-Jackers. Everything in your army get's +1Ld and the Stubborn USR. I know this combo doesn't give you any amazing "whoa" gimmicks with your army. But the nice thing about this is that their relay isn't any downsides or restrictions, and no wired WYSIWYG modelling. They keep their drugs in their pockets. done.

This is probably the most "vanilla" combo, But it will let you take any units you want and alot of them.

wrong on the survivors look, btw. just because they have a 3+ save doesn't mean that they MUST be in power armor. all the +1 armor represents is the fact that the planet was hardened and had technology. super thick carapase is perfectly fine for a 3+ save.

kinda on point with abhumans, but remember: squats, other kinds of humans from harsh planets, and similar things would still represent the +1 T/-1 I

survivors has the restricting of taking 2 decent units manditory, and they don't get modeled with power armor unless you want them too. otherwise, you'll have be belive that any eldar with a 3+ save are just in looted marine clothes?

So Dkok can be brought to 30k games? I dont know if the timing matches up

DKoK style armor isn't exclusive to them as far as I know. It is conceivable that another regiment, somewhere, used similar equipment.

So where are the rules for the Milita? What HH book are they in?

3x lisks and 21x guys doesnt sound bad as a quick swap out for my fellgaive if i cant take it.

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well lightning Fighters, I like those.
but im looking around and I think it might actually be up my ally. I decided to go Abhuman Helots and Survivors. And give my commander the merchant princeling warlord trait to give my autocannons/ heavy bolters AP3 or my missiles AP2. OR myearthshakers ap2
Im also now thinking of a Baneblade maybe.

Just so you are aware with Survivors, you must take grenadiers as required troop choices. These grenadiers have their carapace armour replaced with power armour. Also your bassic dudes that make up the rest of the army aren't exactly WYSIWYG in regards to carapace armour. Survivors is one of the harder ones to represent. You bassicly need to put empire heads on plastic calth spacemariens or something silly to represent them.

Also nothing about your army screams "abhuman". Abhuman means your guys are like squats or Beastmen. I get you want this one for access to collars on all your units, but your not realy representing the T4/I2. Also takeing abhumans makes it harder to take allies, witch the milita can realy use.

For the guys you have I would say Warrior Elites+Alchem-Jackers. Everything in your army get's +1Ld and the Stubborn USR. I know this combo doesn't give you any amazing "whoa" gimmicks with your army. But the nice thing about this is that their relay isn't any downsides or restrictions, and no wired WYSIWYG modelling. They keep their drugs in their pockets. done.

This is probably the most "vanilla" combo, But it will let you take any units you want and alot of them.

wrong on the survivors look, btw. just because they have a 3+ save doesn't mean that they MUST be in power armor. all the +1 armor represents is the fact that the planet was hardened and had technology. super thick carapase is perfectly fine for a 3+ save.

kinda on point with abhumans, but remember: squats, other kinds of humans from harsh planets, and similar things would still represent the +1 T/-1 I

survivors has the restricting of taking 2 decent units manditory, and they don't get modeled with power armor unless you want them too. otherwise, you'll have be belive that any eldar with a 3+ save are just in looted marine clothes?

The rules say you do need the modle the Provenances, and I do not agree about harderened Carapace haveing the same protection as power armour, and hardened flak armour being as protective as Carapace. What these saves look like for HUMAN armies has been established for a long time in the fluff. We're not talking about eldar.

It's not looting SM armour, the fluff states that it's these human survivors from the dark ages that the tech for latter mk's of power armour were based off of. Unless you want to buy some 3rd party power armour models, the converting SM from calth sujestion was incase you play in a area that dosen't allow 3rd party models.

Also just saying your dudes are Abhumans is just way to lazy. Atleast paint their skin blue or something silly to represent them being abhumans.

It's not explicitly stated to be power armor. It could be locally made carapace armor constructed out of exotic materials. A 3+ save does not automatically equate to power armor in 40k. Hell, there are power armored troops with a 4+ save.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It's not explicitly stated to be power armor. It could be locally made carapace armor constructed out of exotic materials. A 3+ save does not automatically equate to power armor in 40k. Hell, there are power armored troops with a 4+ save.

I realy would not accept that as being WYSIWYG, I feel it's expected you represent the better armour saves. If your realy not going to care about that stuff, then he might as well proxy his IG as solar Aux like he orginally said in the start of the topic.

If I can't look at a human army and not reconize a +5, +4, and +3 save right away then I find it hard to say that army is WYSIWYG.

Edit:

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
So where are the rules for the Milita? What HH book are they in?

3x lisks and 21x guys doesnt sound bad as a quick swap out for my fellgaive if i cant take it.

It's in book 5 tempest, but in all honesty just wait about 6 months or so. A Red book with the rules for Solar Aux, Milita and Knights is comeing out after the new legions red book.

I'd rather someone come in with Scions and say "They got fancy gear which gives them a 3+" than awkwardly converted Mk. IV power armor personally. Rule of cool over strict WYSIWYG.

Though, if we are talking WYSIWYG, modelling power armor would be technically violating that since dark age grenadiers don't have power armor as part of their wargear.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd rather someone come in with Scions and say "They got fancy gear which gives them a 3+" than awkwardly converted Mk. IV power armor personally. Rule of cool over strict WYSIWYG.

Though, if we are talking WYSIWYG, modelling power armor would be technically violating that since dark age grenadiers don't have power armor as part of their wargear.

And if we're being strict the grenadiers only have Auxilia Rifles, and thus do not have any Lascarbines to replace when buying any of their range upgrades.


To me the intent of the milita list is that you are actually upgrading the armour. At the GW I play at, they are very strict about WYSIWYG. They would not accept thows explanations.

Also if it's rule of cool, their are planty of cool 3rd party power armour models on the market. Some of my favorit even come as mutipart plastics. I would consider thows models more more appropriate then "Their tempest scions in REALY good armour".

 Lockark wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It's not explicitly stated to be power armor. It could be locally made carapace armor constructed out of exotic materials. A 3+ save does not automatically equate to power armor in 40k. Hell, there are power armored troops with a 4+ save.

I realy would not accept that as being WYSIWYG, I feel it's expected you represent the better armour saves. If your realy not going to care about that stuff, then he might as well proxy his IG as solar Aux like he orginally said in the start of the topic.

If I can't look at a human army and not reconize a +5, +4, and +3 save right away then I find it hard to say that army is WYSIWYG.

Edit:

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
So where are the rules for the Milita? What HH book are they in?

3x lisks and 21x guys doesnt sound bad as a quick swap out for my fellgaive if i cant take it.

It's in book 5 tempest, but in all honesty just wait about 6 months or so. A Red book with the rules for Solar Aux, Milita and Knights is comeing out after the new legions red book.

the base problem with your first part is the following:

flak armor looks the same as carapace armor
power armor looks the same as artificer armor
eldar 3+ saves look different then Tau 3+ saves which both look different then power armor.
Just because it's a human with a 3+ save DOESN'T mean that they are wearing power armor. 'my guys are wearing carapace armor laced with titanium' or 'this planet is highly technologically advance, so we use something like halo's overshields as our armor' 'my men are all wielding specialized slab-shields that they use as armor' or 'these men have a 3+ armor save since they use special tech under their regular unit form that disperse the shock of the rounds that hit'


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lockark wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd rather someone come in with Scions and say "They got fancy gear which gives them a 3+" than awkwardly converted Mk. IV power armor personally. Rule of cool over strict WYSIWYG.

Though, if we are talking WYSIWYG, modelling power armor would be technically violating that since dark age grenadiers don't have power armor as part of their wargear.

And if we're being strict the grenadiers only have Auxilia Rifles, and thus do not have any Lascarbines to replace when buying any of their range upgrades.


To me the intent of the milita list is that you are actually upgrading the armour. At the GW I play at, they are very strict about WYSIWYG. They would not accept thows explanations.

Also if it's rule of cool, their are planty of cool 3rd party power armour models on the market. Some of my favorit even come as mutipart plastics. I would consider thows models more more appropriate then "Their tempest scions in REALY good armour".

they FAQ'd that first part, btw

if your local GW functions that way, then no one must use grenadier veterans, or command squads when they play IG, right? no artificer on your srgt unless you go out and buy some special armor for him? sounds terrible to play there.

 Lockark wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd rather someone come in with Scions and say "They got fancy gear which gives them a 3+" than awkwardly converted Mk. IV power armor personally. Rule of cool over strict WYSIWYG.

Though, if we are talking WYSIWYG, modelling power armor would be technically violating that since dark age grenadiers don't have power armor as part of their wargear.

And if we're being strict the grenadiers only have Auxilia Rifles, and thus do not have any Lascarbines to replace when buying any of their range upgrades.


To me the intent of the milita list is that you are actually upgrading the armour. At the GW I play at, they are very strict about WYSIWYG. They would not accept thows explanations.

Also if it's rule of cool, their are planty of cool 3rd party power armour models on the market. Some of my favorit even come as mutipart plastics. I would consider thows models more more appropriate then "Their tempest scions in REALY good armour".

That's not a WYSIWYG issue. That is a rules issue. And grenadiers with a 3+ save are still wearing carapace armor according to their wargear entry IIRC so scions in carapace is still 100% WYSIWYG. If they don't accept that then make them model/paint mastercrafted wargear and artificer armor because it is the exact same issue.

 Lockark wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well lightning Fighters, I like those.
but im looking around and I think it might actually be up my ally. I decided to go Abhuman Helots and Survivors. And give my commander the merchant princeling warlord trait to give my autocannons/ heavy bolters AP3 or my missiles AP2. OR myearthshakers ap2
Im also now thinking of a Baneblade maybe.

Just so you are aware with Survivors, you must take grenadiers as required troop choices. These grenadiers have their carapace armour replaced with power armour. Also your bassic dudes that make up the rest of the army aren't exactly WYSIWYG in regards to carapace armour. Survivors is one of the harder ones to represent. You bassicly need to put empire heads on plastic calth spacemariens or something silly to represent them.

Also nothing about your army screams "abhuman". Abhuman means your guys are like squats or Beastmen. I get you want this one for access to collars on all your units, but your not realy representing the T4/I2. Also takeing abhumans makes it harder to take allies, witch the milita can realy use.

For the guys you have I would say Warrior Elites+Alchem-Jackers. Everything in your army get's +1Ld and the Stubborn USR. I know this combo doesn't give you any amazing "whoa" gimmicks with your army. But the nice thing about this is that their relay isn't any downsides or restrictions, and no wired WYSIWYG modelling. They keep their drugs in their pockets. done.

This is probably the most "vanilla" combo, But it will let you take any units you want and alot of them.

But I want str 4 Rotor cannons and Las Weapons.

@TheCustomLime: If you can't tell the diffrence between Flakk and Carapace then I'm not sure what to tell you.

As for carapace armoured squads. Older IG players still use their metal karkasins, newer players convert scions. None of the players use flakk armoured guys and are just like "These are carapace guys, ok?"

@hotsauceman1: My point is that in 30k you shouldn't be rules lawyering, and if you are go back to 40k. Like the Aux Rile mistake, I belive that it is pretty well implied that the intent of the Provenance is that it upgrades your armour to the "next step". I would expect that upgrade to be repersented. Witch TheCustomLime has made clear he is not, since he wants to use his existing cadian army. Thus why I'm trying to sugest to take Provenances that are closer to the WYSIWYG of his existing army.

If he's not going to give a gak about modelling his army to reflect the Provenances, then I find it hard to say with a straight face his army is anything other then a proxy army.

Or I can take what I want cause we are all reasonable people in this world?

It can be hard because often the difference between flak and carapace is a just few extra armor plates. Compare Scions to Cadian Guardsmen. Or Cadians vs. Kasrkin.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Or I can take what I want cause we are all reasonable people in this world?

Well yah. I have played plenty of game with people using proxy models to figure out what they want to play. I played a game with Orks standing in for eldar a few weeks ago.

I have read the provenance, it says nowhere NOWHERE that it upgrades their armor, just that it is +1 armor.

OP, just run your army as you would like. The Imperial Army was a such a vast organization with troops drawn from so many different worlds that any combination is conceivable within reason.

Yeah, I was messing around. and it looks fun? Ap3 heavy bolters or lascannons, or ap3 torrent flamers?
Ijust wish there was a way to give them Deepstrike, that would be alot of fun for me. I never wanted a baneblade, but I hear thety are actually good in 30k.

 Lockark wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It's not explicitly stated to be power armor. It could be locally made carapace armor constructed out of exotic materials. A 3+

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
So where are the rules for the Milita? What HH book are they in?

3x lisks and 21x guys doesnt sound bad as a quick swap out for my fellgaive if i cant take it.

It's in book 5 tempest, but in all honesty just wait about 6 months or so. A Red book with the rules for Solar Aux, Milita and Knights is comeing out after the new legions red book.

Thanks for the tip friend. Ill keep that in mind.