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This is really annoying me, who is the guy to the right of Horus and left of Ahriman in the flaming chains?

He's the Red Angel. A possessed Blood Angel apothecary first seen in the novel Fear to Tread. You can just about see the BA emblems on him.

Thanks.

Which doesn't make too much sense, because "Red Angel" meant Angron prior to this new dumb series being written.

Stupid Ahriman making the TS looks like traitors

beyond that, yeah, the HH novels have a few stupid bits (red angel, the immortal cross-race best buddies that is the cabal, etc.)

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Which doesn't make too much sense, because "Red Angel" meant Angron prior to this new dumb series being written.

Angron is still called the Red Angel in the HH books from time to time iirc, which makes it even more dumb.

Actually that picture is from the Horus Heresy CCG circa 2002-2004, there was a close-up identifying that figure as The Red Angel in the artbooks (Book III/Compilation). I'm not aware of instance of Angron being called The Red Angel until the Horus Heresy novel series started several years later. (His epic daemon prince model was painted with red skin, but his description stated the red skin was a gift from Khorne)

Personally I think calling Angron the Red Angel - at least prior to his ascension to daemonhood - is dumb.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Which doesn't make too much sense, because "Red Angel" meant Angron prior to this new dumb series being written.

I believe someone mentioned to the Red Angel than Angron wouldn't like his usurpation of the epithet. Not sure if anything has come of it yet.

 Brennonjw wrote:
Stupid Ahriman making the TS looks like traitors

They are traitors.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
Stupid Ahriman making the TS looks like traitors

They are traitors.

Are they? Are the Alpha legion really traitors?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
Stupid Ahriman making the TS looks like traitors

They are traitors.

Are they? Are the Alpha legion really traitors?

How did we get to the Alpha Legion?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
Stupid Ahriman making the TS looks like traitors

They are traitors.

Are they? Are the Alpha legion really traitors?

Yes, and yes. Two simpler questions can't be asked about 40k background.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
Stupid Ahriman making the TS looks like traitors

They are traitors.

Are they? Are the Alpha legion really traitors?

Yes, and yes. Two simpler questions can't be asked about 40k background.

Yup, totally agree.

The Thousand Sons aren't traitors, they were the ones who were betrayed.

By their Primarch, and then by the Space Wolves.

How did Space Wolves betray them?

The Space Wolves never betrayed the Thousand Sons, that falls squarely on Horus. He's the one that told them to kill the Thousand Sons.

Also, Magnus ordered the Thousand Sons to stand idle and let the Wolves kill them because he had betrayed the Emperor. The Thousand Sons didn't follow that order. But they did commit whole-heartedly with Magnus' plan of "screw that, let's just join the daemons" plan afterwords.

I'm very confused how you find that last be to not be traitorous towards the Imperium.

pm713 wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
Stupid Ahriman making the TS looks like traitors

They are traitors.

Are they? Are the Alpha legion really traitors?

How did we get to the Alpha Legion?

No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

Of more interest: What are they doing to him?

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The Space Wolves never betrayed the Thousand Sons, that falls squarely on Horus. He's the one that told them to kill the Thousand Sons.

Also, Magnus ordered the Thousand Sons to stand idle and let the Wolves kill them because he had betrayed the Emperor. The Thousand Sons didn't follow that order. But they did commit whole-heartedly with Magnus' plan of "screw that, let's just join the daemons" plan afterwords.

I'm very confused how you find that last be to not be traitorous towards the Imperium.

The wolves were under orders to return magnus to terra for censure. The scheming of Othere Wyrdmaker as well as Constantine Valdor saw to it that they attacked instead. So that in its own way forced the Thousand Sons hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:
Of more interest: What are they doing to him?

He's a bound demon now that they use to confront Blood Angels in the hopes of turning them into Khorne berserkers.
Example- Horus Heresy book- "Battle of Molech"

Havent read Molech - is this post Fear to Thread? Was he captuted in FtT?

 Ratius wrote:
Havent read Molech - is this post Fear to Thread? Was he captuted in FtT?

I haven't read fear to tread in awhile but I believe he was captured then I can't confirm but yes molech happens after fear to tread

 Blitzen the Solitaire wrote:

The wolves were under orders to return magnus to terra for censure. The scheming of Othere Wyrdmaker as well as Constantine Valdor saw to it that they attacked instead. So that in its own way forced the Thousand Sons hands.

Horus changed that order. That's the way it originally happened. That's still the way it happened in the HH series.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Blitzen the Solitaire wrote:

The wolves were under orders to return magnus to terra for censure. The scheming of Othere Wyrdmaker as well as Constantine Valdor saw to it that they attacked instead. So that in its own way forced the Thousand Sons hands.

Horus changed that order. That's the way it originally happened. That's still the way it happened in the HH series.

Hmmm i must of missed something from "Prospero Burns" when Russ tries to talk through Kasper Hawser to Magnus and tells him to bring his armies out and surrender to him.

Here are some quotes in regards to the communication.

Nothing is mentioned in Prospero Burns about the actual order from Horus to destroy the Wolves rather than take them back to Terra.

The initial order

‘I see,’ said Horus, ‘and the Council’s concern is simply with Angron’s bloodlust?’ ‘Not entirely,’ he replied. ‘As I said, the Wolf of Fenris has been despatched to Prospero in order to bring Magnus back to Terra, though for what purpose I do not know.’ - Fulgrim Page 278

Horus has changed the order

"But what of Magnus?" asked Maloghurst urgently. "What happens when Leman Russ returns him to Terra?"

Horus smiled. "Calm yourself, Mal. I have already contacted my brother Russ and illuminated him with the full breadth of Magnus' treacherous use of daemonic spells and conjurations. He was... suitably angry, and I believe that I have convinced him that to return Magnus to Terra would be a waste of effort." - False Gods Page 405.

"He saw the honeyed words of Horus and the sinister urgings of Constantin Valdor, each spoken with very different purposes, but designed to sway Leman Russ towards a destination of total destruction." - A Thousand Sons, Page 535.

On the Red Angel, he's been a rather pointless character so far in my opinion and would have been better left as he was. A cool looking chained burning dude.

 Gashrog wrote:
Actually that picture is from the Horus Heresy CCG circa 2002-2004, there was a close-up identifying that figure as The Red Angel in the artbooks (Book III/Compilation). I'm not aware of instance of Angron being called The Red Angel until the Horus Heresy novel series started several years later. (His epic daemon prince model was painted with red skin, but his description stated the red skin was a gift from Khorne)

Personally I think calling Angron the Red Angel - at least prior to his ascension to daemonhood - is dumb.

Its a title referring to his killing ability, so brutal that its almost like he was gifted the skill by the gods. And red because the blood.

in Fear to Tread, when the Red Angel meets with Horus and Co., he declares himself "The Red Angel" and someone actually points out that Angron might take offence to that, to which he replies something like "So? I'm a Daemon-thing, bite me."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Here are some quotes in regards to the communication.

Nothing is mentioned in Prospero Burns about the actual order from Horus to destroy the Wolves rather than take them back to Terra.

The initial order

‘I see,’ said Horus, ‘and the Council’s concern is simply with Angron’s bloodlust?’ ‘Not entirely,’ he replied. ‘As I said, the Wolf of Fenris has been despatched to Prospero in order to bring Magnus back to Terra, though for what purpose I do not know.’ - Fulgrim Page 278

Horus has changed the order

"But what of Magnus?" asked Maloghurst urgently. "What happens when Leman Russ returns him to Terra?"

Horus smiled. "Calm yourself, Mal. I have already contacted my brother Russ and illuminated him with the full breadth of Magnus' treacherous use of daemonic spells and conjurations. He was... suitably angry, and I believe that I have convinced him that to return Magnus to Terra would be a waste of effort." - False Gods Page 405.

"He saw the honeyed words of Horus and the sinister urgings of Constantin Valdor, each spoken with very different purposes, but designed to sway Leman Russ towards a destination of total destruction." - A Thousand Sons, Page 535.

On the Red Angel, he's been a rather pointless character so far in my opinion and would have been better left as he was. A cool looking chained burning dude.

He's a manifestation of the flaw. In Fear to Tread, the Apothecary (who is symbolic of the geneseed and the creation of the Astartes in his role) went into the glowing death-ball thing created by Ka'Bandha in his Primarch's stead, sacrificing himself so Sanguinius wouldn't, and gave over the geneseed he was carrying in his NArthecarium at the time. He is representation of the Bloodlust that echoed in the Warp and emerged as its own manifestation that day. Sanguinius was planning to sacrifice himself to stop the curse altogether until the Apothecary volunteered instead, but he only slowed it down.

pm713 wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
Stupid Ahriman making the TS looks like traitors

They are traitors.

Are they? Are the Alpha legion really traitors?

How did we get to the Alpha Legion?

That's what we will all ask when the end comes.....