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Under the USR Infiltrate it actually doesn't really give the option to not Infiltrate.

Yes, you can choose to hold them in reserve and Outflank them, but if they start on the table, it appears that RAW forces them to Infiltrate, making them unable to charge first turn (even if deployed in their own deployment zone).

Steve recently pointed this out to me, which I was totally surprised by. I've never played it that you have to Infiltrate, and not one player that has come in, or even one commentor on our YouTube videos has ever called us out on this (although they don't usually see the details of our deployment).

Whaddayathink?

That's the way I read it as well, but I choose to believe it's an oversight. I don't believe that it was ever worded this way before, but I didn't play in 6th Ed at all so I'm not certain.

Yeah it would suck if that was the way you had to do it.

The way I've always done it is to declare it before deployment, but that was an assumption on my part.

It is mandatory as written.

In RAW:

Yes you have to wait until the infiltrate step to place or declare the reserve status (normal/outflank/deepstrike/transport) of any unit with infiltrate.

This means that they can't start the game in a vehicle if any independent characters were in it in the normal deployment step, (but could infiltrate into it if it was empty,) and they can never charge on your first turn regardless of where they are.

That's just RAW silliness though. You could always opt to house-it as infiltrate being optional, which is what I think it should've been.

 niv-mizzet wrote:
In RAW:

Yes you have to wait until the infiltrate step to place or declare the reserve status (normal/outflank/deepstrike/transport) of any unit with infiltrate.

This means that they can't start the game in a vehicle if any independent characters were in it in the normal deployment step, (but could infiltrate into it if it was empty,) and they can never charge on your first turn regardless of where they are.

That's just RAW silliness though. You could always opt to house-it as infiltrate being optional, which is what I think it should've been.

Its RAW is what was intended as well, as noted in the main rulebook FAQ:

Page 166 - Independent Character, Independent Characters and Infiltrate
Change this sentence to read: ‘An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, and vice versa.’

Page 166 - Independent Character, Independent Characters and Infiltrate
Change this sentence to read: ‘An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, and vice versa.’

That's not 100% clear actually, as it says it cannot join "a unit of Infiltrators." Is a unit of Infiltrators a unit with the Infiltrate special rule, or a unit that is Infiltrating?

 miniwargaming wrote:
That's not 100% clear actually, as it says it cannot join "a unit of Infiltrators." Is a unit of Infiltrators a unit with the Infiltrate special rule, or a unit that is Infiltrating?

I think it's fairly clear when you read the first paragraph of the Infiltrate special rule:

"Units that contain at least one model with this special rule are deployed last, after all other units (friend and foe) have been deployed. If both sides have Infiltrators, the players roll-off and the winner decides who goes first, then alternate deploying these units."

Second sentence mention of Infiltrators is clearly referring to the first sentence describing units containing at least one model with the special rule.

Yes, units with the Infiltrate special rule MUST infiltrate, even if they merely 'infiltrate' into their own Deployment Zone. They are deployed last, and they follow the rules for Infiltration (regardless of where they are deployed--even within your own DZ, they must be 18" away from enemy units if they can be seen by ANY enemy unit, but may be 12" away from enemy units if NO enemy units can see them). EDIT: And, regardless of where they end up infiltrating, they are disallowed from assaulting on turn one--even against drop-pod units in their own DZ, for example (which is how I learned my lesson about Infiltration, when I used the Master of Ambush warlord trait to infiltrate a Wraith Knight...).

 miniwargaming wrote:

Page 166 - Independent Character, Independent Characters and Infiltrate
Change this sentence to read: ‘An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, and vice versa.’

That's not 100% clear actually, as it says it cannot join "a unit of Infiltrators." Is a unit of Infiltrators a unit with the Infiltrate special rule, or a unit that is Infiltrating?

Infiltrators are still infiltrators regardless of whether or not they are infiltrating. Just like a bridge builder is still a bridge builder regardless of whether or not they are currently building a bridge. Anything with the infiltrate special rule is an infiltrator regardless of how it is deploying.

It can make sense from a fluff standpoint as Infiltrators are always those units advancing forward to relay intel to the rest of the army. They wont make an aggressive move (like charging first turn) without knowing the main army is near (which they would by turn 2)

 Galef wrote:
It can make sense from a fluff standpoint as Infiltrators are always those units advancing forward to relay intel to the rest of the army. They wont make an aggressive move (like charging first turn) without knowing the main army is near (which they would by turn 2)

Although on the other hand, it makes very little sense that you as the commander can't tell them NOT to get early stealth positions on the battlefield.

"Scout squad joe, join and protect chaplain Ricky 1 inch immediately to your left."
"Sod off sir, if he wants in our squad he can ask during the battle, not before."

 miniwargaming wrote:
Under the USR Infiltrate it actually doesn't really give the option to not Infiltrate.

Yes, you can choose to hold them in reserve and Outflank them, but if they start on the table, it appears that RAW forces them to Infiltrate, making them unable to charge first turn (even if deployed in their own deployment zone).

Steve recently pointed this out to me, which I was totally surprised by. I've never played it that you have to Infiltrate, and not one player that has come in, or even one commentor on our YouTube videos has ever called us out on this (although they don't usually see the details of our deployment).

Whaddayathink?

You must infiltrate them, and if you put them in reserves they must outflank. Pretty cut and try without special reading.

 niv-mizzet wrote:
Although on the other hand, it makes very little sense that you as the commander can't tell them NOT to get early stealth positions on the battlefield.

Nah, in the 40K universe commanders are spending the time before the battle poking a pin in a warfare manual to determine what sort of command style they're going to adopt today. It's even worse if your commander is a Psyker, as he also has to cram in learning a bunch of random psychic powers.

Because Narrative.





I can only assume the troops are just left to figure out for themselves where they're supposed to be and what they're supposed to be doing there.

 Ravenous D wrote:
You must infiltrate them, and if you put them in reserves they must outflank. Pretty cut and try without special reading.

Not completely correct.

If deployed during deployment, Infiltrators have no choice but to wait until non-Infiltrators are deployed on the table or declared in Reserves (and even this second part is technically not RAW, just assumed by everyone).

However, when Infiltrators are put in Reserves, there is nothing requiring them to be made to Outflank. They can be declared to Deep Strike (provided they have the option), or even arrive normally from the player's edge. Outflank is purely an option, not a requirement. Infiltrate carries zero requirements when dealing with Reserves, only options.

 niv-mizzet wrote:

 Galef wrote:
It can make sense from a fluff standpoint as Infiltrators are always those units advancing forward to relay intel to the rest of the army. They wont make an aggressive move (like charging first turn) without knowing the main army is near (which they would by turn 2)

Although on the other hand, it makes very little sense that you as the commander can't tell them NOT to get early stealth positions on the battlefield.

"Scout squad joe, join and protect chaplain Ricky 1 inch immediately to your left."
"Sod off sir, if he wants in our squad he can ask during the battle, not before."

I'm not following. Why can't you do that? Just 'infiltrate' them right next him.

 Bookwrack wrote:
I'm not following. Why can't you do that? Just 'infiltrate' them right next him.

You can't do that because "An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, and vice versa."

 insaniak wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:
I'm not following. Why can't you do that? Just 'infiltrate' them right next him.

You can't do that because "An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, and vice versa."

I'm pretty sure this sentence in Independent Character USR permits that:
"An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it (...)"
So if Infiltrators deploy in coherency with IC then at the beginning of the game they form a unit. Or am I wrong?

 danyboy wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:
I'm not following. Why can't you do that? Just 'infiltrate' them right next him.

You can't do that because "An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, and vice versa."

I'm pretty sure this sentence in Independent Character USR permits that:
"An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it (...)"
So if Infiltrators deploy in coherency with IC then at the beginning of the game they form a unit. Or am I wrong?

You have to deploy an IC join to a unit which you can't do with infiltrators. As such the IC wouldn't join the infiltrating unit until tis movement phase

Crownaxe: I know how leaving and joining unit works during game.
This sentence states however, that at the beginning of the game IC in coherency with a unit joins that unit.

 danyboy wrote:
Crownaxe: I know how leaving and joining unit works during game.
This sentence states however, that at the beginning of the game IC in coherency with a unit joins that unit.

Actually, it states beginning the game already with a unit if it is deployed in coherency with the unit. In other words, BEFORE the game begins, aka deployment.

If you Infiltrate a unit in to coherency with an IC, then you are effectively joining the IC to the unit before the game begins. This is specifically prohibited.

 Charistoph wrote:

 danyboy wrote:
Crownaxe: I know how leaving and joining unit works during game.
This sentence states however, that at the beginning of the game IC in coherency with a unit joins that unit.

Actually, it states beginning the game already with a unit if it is deployed in coherency with the unit. In other words, BEFORE the game begins, aka deployment.

If you Infiltrate a unit in to coherency with an IC, then you are effectively joining the IC to the unit before the game begins. This is specifically prohibited.

Hmm, I have to think about it

If you haven't already be sure to post the question to the GW FAQ thread before it closes.

It has already been errata'd. It's pretty clear how it works.

Out of curiosity - are there any units in 40k that consist only one model (of many) with Infiltrate Special Rule?

 danyboy wrote:
Out of curiosity - are there any units in 40k that consist only one model (of many) with Infiltrate Special Rule?

Use a squad leader as warlord and roll up the infiltrate trait?

 danyboy wrote:
Out of curiosity - are there any units in 40k that consist only one model (of many) with Infiltrate Special Rule?

I can't think of one of many, but if there are any, they would be in IG with their Unique Sergeants or Commanders, or Eldar and their Exarchs.

However, Wolf Scouts can take a Wolf Guard Pack Leader who does not have Infiltrate.

nareik wrote:

 danyboy wrote:
Out of curiosity - are there any units in 40k that consist only one model (of many) with Infiltrate Special Rule?

Use a squad leader as warlord and roll up the infiltrate trait?

All of the assassins can.

Also, this occurred to me while reading this thread:

So, if I deploy my scouts in my deployment zone and my opponent deepstrikes, scouts, or otherwise gets within charging range on turn 1, I still cannot charge with those scouts, can I?

@Green Is Best: You are correct. No matter WHERE you deploy your Scouts, you may not assault on Game Turn One (top or bottom).

And I realize that is RAW, it just seems... wrong? It really feels like it should be a choice, especially if you "accidentally" roll the Master of Ambush warlord trait, where all of a sudden your Warlord (who might be a beefy close combat guy who you want to use to fend off drop pod assaults) is totally nerfed.

I'm smelling a house rule here...