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Today is the day. I've struggled with bubbly decals for long enough and I've decided that simply putting cuts into them to alleviate air bubbles isn't good enough. With that in mind, I was going to invest in some bottles of Microsol, Microset and Liquid Decal Film. The purpose of this thread is that I just wanted any tips, tricks, advice or warnings for using the stuff as I've (obviously) never used it before. So I'd be very much obliged for any advice people could give me.

Can't go past this guide -> http://www.winterdyne.co.uk/maz/winterdyne_tutorial3.pdf

Long story short, it's amazing stuff.

I think they're pretty good. Though if you're getting bubbles perhaps your technique needs some work? You should wet the decal and also the area you're going to apply it to (with water, vinegar or use microset if you have it), put the decal in place, dab off the excess moisture, then use something like a cotton bud gently rolling it from the centre of the decal outwards to get rid of any liquid that's trapped underneath.

If it's going over complex curves you can try and apply microsol and hope that it can get it to conform to the surface, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and cut the decal though.

I would recommend them - great products. You can also use them to soften and even out decals you have already placed so you can go back over old decals and sort them out.

@kb_lock - That's a great article - thanks for the heads up! One question though - is 'Ardcoat as good as Klear in terms of a preparation varnish?

@All seeing Skink - The decals I'm putting on are the Salamander Head icons onto Space Marine pauldrons. The bubbles come about because the decal doesn't conform to the rounded surface. The method you desciribe is already the one I'm using, with the exception that I'm using water rather than vinegar (Which yellows the white decal). I'm hoping that the Microsol will soften it sufficiently for it to conform. I usually cut the decal anyway, but I'm finding that the slight overlaps deform the shape of the icon and produce a slightly raised surface. Thanks for the advice anyway.

@Filbert - Interesting. I had thought of ripping off all my old decals and re-doing them, but this may be a solution - thanks.

Yes, any gloss varnish is fine - just needs to be perfectly smooth.

Klear is probably better than ardcoat as a preparation. It self-levels better than ardcoat.

I'm surprised you say vinegar yellows your decals. I've used vinegar on quite a few models that have white decals (RAF roundel decals, Balkenkreuz decals, USAAF stars, etc) and I'm inspecting some of them now and can't see any hints of yellowing. You didn't use apple cider vinegar did you?

Anyway, yeah, maybe microsol will get it to conform around the curve you need, maybe it won't. You have to try it and see. I've had some decals that won't conform to the surface I need them to conform to no matter what solvents I use (microsol, tamiya mark fit, Mr Hobby Mark Softer are ones I've tried). In those circumstances there's not a lot you can do but cut them.

Make sure you're trimming off as much of the clear part of the decal as possible as well. Most decals have 1mm or so of clear surrounding the actual design, if you cut that off there's less decal material left to wrinkle up on compound surfaces. Or if it's a "hollow" design like a ultramarines omega, if you can trim out the clear material in the middle it'll conform better to curved surfaces.

But yeah, microsol will help, will it be enough? Just have to give it a shot and hope for the best. After a while you learn without having to trial and error when a decal isn't going to work.

FWIW, I hate decals After spending ages on a model, it's always the decals that look crap to me. It's why I'm going to invest in a Silhouette cutter when they get back in stock in Australia and why I always go for shoulder pads with raised details vs decals.

@kb_lock - Cheers

@All Seeing Skink - To be fair, I've never used any form of vinegar on any decals. When I was looking into how I could apply smoother deals I'd come across accounts of vinegar yellowing the decal and paintwork underneath - hence I immediately shied away from it and stuck to water. As you say, it may depend on the type of vinegar used, but I'd rather stick with water or a dedicated solution.

As for cutting decals - the Salamander head requires no less than 6 cuts into the decal itself alongside the cutting around the edge. Its an utter PITA .

So what's a Silhouette cutter?

I don't use vinegar any more because it does the same task as microset and I now own microset, but yeah, can't say I saw any issues back when I used vinegar, some of the vinegar models are still sitting on my display shelf.

Silhouette is a cutting machine that scrap bookers like to use, but it can also be used to cut stencils as an alternative to decals. It's probably not going to work great on highly curved surfaces either though.

Looking at the salamander decals, they look doable to me if you just cut the clear material off and not the head itself. Looking at pictures of the decals it does seem like they have a lot of excess clear material you'll likely have to remove, but the head looks narrow enough that you shouldn't have to cut in to the head itself (using microsol at least).

As I said, I hate decals, so I'd just get shoulder pads that already have raised details and just paint it or even use press moulds to make my own But sometimes that's not an option.

I'll tell you now, that without Microsol, Salamander heads are difficult, in my experience at least. Of course, if there is an easier way I'm all ears. I'd love to do the whole force with moulded Chapter icons, but it would A) End up rather costly and B) I'm not to sure how they fit into my perception of Salamanders (Only veterans or all ranks with ornate pads). Anyway, thanks for all the input Skink - much appreciated.

Yeah when I said doable, I meant doable with microsol

For my Space Pups I started making press moulds to do the company symbols, it's not too hard but a bit fiddly. I used "instant mould" and greenstuff to do it. This was my first attempt, the right shoulder pad on this guy was a press mould....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/719703-.html?m=2

Not perfect I know, but it was also my first attempt

But yeah, it just depends on your own vision for your army I guess. I don't normally like excessively detailed models, but in my mind I picture the company symbol being something that is physically attached rather than spray painted on. It is more time consuming than decals though

I love them. Gloss, microset, microsol, microsol several more times, gloss again, then matte coat. Flawless decals.

wow this is awesome - thanks for that link especially @kb_lock!! I have a ton of decals from my son's necrons that I haven't even tried to use. I was a bit put off by no instructions of any kind regarding them. I've never seen decals before, only heard of them, or I'd have not know what they even were.

*edit*
@AllSeeingSkink - how did you find the greenstuff adhered to your plastic shoulder? I seem to have some trouble with it at times, where it'll come off easily. I'm using superglue though maybe that's the wrong glue for a bond between the two? And I think I may totally steal your idea here, because I'm trying sort of similar with my Luna Wolves and not quite happy with how they're coming out

I found it stuck well enough. Maybe it's a weak bond, but after applying the symbol I haven't handled the model by the shoulder enough for it to fall off. It's a large surface area for bonding on a thin symbol, so I'm not too concerned.

Firstly take a press mould of a design you want on the shoulder pad (luckily for Space Wolves I didn't have to sculpt it myself as there's a ton of Wolfy symbols to use).

Then there's a couple of ways you can go about casting the symbol on to a shoulder pad. I can't exactly remember the method for that dude, but I have a couple of ways I do it. One way (which only works if the original symbol was on a shoulder pad) is to fill the mould with a thin layer of greenstuff. You don't want to be squeezing out excess greenstuff, so ideally you only want just enough to fill the mould. Press the mould and greenstuff on to the shoulder pad in the correct position, wait for it to cure probably about 75%, then pull the mould off. Hopefully the symbol sticks to the shoulder and not the mould, but even if it doesn't just pry it gently out of the mould and stick it on the shoulder. Then just use a good sharp knife to gently trim off the excess greenstuff (that's why you don't wait for it to fully cure, so you can trim it off while it's still soft).

The other method which I use more frequently now is to make your press mould and then just fill it with a thin layer of greenstuff and don't bother pushing it against the model, just make the exposed surface smooth with a sculpting tool. If it's a thin symbol, wait for it to almost fully cure, pull it out of the mould, trim off the excess and then glue it in place (if it's soft enough you might be able to tack it in place until it fully cures). If it's a thick symbol you may have to gamble and pull it out slightly early so that it's soft enough to manipulate it around the curve of the shoulder pad. I like this method because you can take a symbol from somewhere else (like a shield or a banner or whatever) and put it on a shoulder pad, the first method you can only take a symbol from one shoulder pad and put it on another.

The other method is just to recast the entire shoulder pad using a silicone mould and casting resin. The reason I didn't do that is because Space Wolves have tons of different shoulder pads and I like the variety, so it's better for me just to take symbols and attach them to existing shoulder pads than recasting a whole heap. But if I had 50 models to do and only a few variations of shoulder pads, I'd be tempted to try my hand at silicone/resin casting instead.

I don't usually use decals...

But when I do, I use Micro-Set and Micro-Sol...

Mdlbuildr wrote:
I don't usually use decals...

But when I do, I use Micro-Set and Micro-Sol...

You're welcome.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Mdlbuildr wrote:
I don't usually use decals...

But when I do, I use Micro-Set and Micro-Sol...

You're welcome.

lol thanks for the advice as well as that pic that was totally what I had in my head too hah

LOL, awesome.

I suck at using a meme generator. My old brain...

It seems my thread just gained a little class

@Guildenstern - Skink probably has more experience than me, but I've found that when you're making press-molds, if you're patient enough to wait until it's fully cured (approx 24hrs), then superglue is the way to attach GS to plastic or resin. It creates a near permanent bond. Oh, and there are some very, very vague instructions on the rear of GW's decal sheets (At least there are on the SM ones).

@Everybody - I think the overwhelming consensus is that Microsol and Microset are good. I shall go forth and purchase some promptly! Cheers all.

Glad my guide's still doing the rounds.

Klear has had a couple of formula changes since the guide was written, so for pure 'reliability' (in that you can use the same mix, in the same way), I'd now suggest Vallejo Model Color gloss varnish, thinned with around 30% Vallejo airbrush thinner. Use a wide, soft brush with 2 even applications (first strokes in one direction, second coat perpendicular) or airbrush it on.

winterdyne wrote:
Glad my guide's still doing the rounds.

Klear has had a couple of formula changes since the guide was written, so for pure 'reliability' (in that you can use the same mix, in the same way), I'd now suggest Vallejo Model Color gloss varnish, thinned with around 30% Vallejo airbrush thinner. Use a wide, soft brush with 2 even applications (first strokes in one direction, second coat perpendicular) or airbrush it on.

Have you tried humbrol clear? At this point it's my preferred alternative to Klear. Klear was often used for canopy dipping and I've heard Humbrol Clear is not as good for that task, I don't like the look of a dipped canopy anyway so I haven't spent a lot of time experimenting with that.

But as a base for decals I am liking humbrol clear, it self levels very well out of the bottle. I usually spray it on, but the times I've applied with a hairy brush it seems to have self levelled quite well. It does take slightly longer to cure than your average acrylic, but it seems to form a smoother and harder shell than VMC's gloss.

Despite being a uk brand, my experience with humbrol acrylics isn't good, so I've not tried it for decalling.

I'll give it a go though when I find a local store that sells it. Nice and glossy?

Humbrol acrylics in general I don't particularly like (terrible pots that dry out and the paint lays on extremely matte to the point of being grainy, you almost have to use their own acrylic thinners which have significant drying retarder to combat the graininess).

But the Humbrol Clear I've been liking as far as strong glossy finishes go, this is the stuff I mean....

http://www.humbrol.com/us-en/humbrol-gloss-clear-125ml-bottle.html

It does have some negative reviews, but they mostly seem from people trying to use it as a canopy dip (which it's advertised as being able to do and the one of the local store owners swears by it for dipping canopies). Since I prefer a polished canopy to a dipped one I can't really comment on that.