Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is a simple one how much should the special edition space marine actually cost ?

For those who don't know what it is here are the rules.

idk, 20 points tops though. Even though the 18" gun that will wound most MCs on 5's and 6's is strong (ignoring the Get's hot) it's still basically only going to ever be in sternguard or tactical squads and is STILL just as fragile as a regular marine (which I've been told sucks in a competative setting) Top that off with the inability to spam it (unlike certain other stupidly strong units in the game), I think it's not worth much beyond 15-20.

Is there any pistol that’s not 15 points?
Combis are generally 10 ppm.
He has a CCW in addition to his comb/pistol. That’s normally a 1 point upgrade.

Now, 15ppm is more then pistols should go for. 10 would be closer to the mark.
The combi-disintegrator can fire the special mode as often as it likes, so should cost more then a normal one.

The fact that he has two guns that do basically the same thing should be worth a rebate. The fact that he can be added to any squad should pay a premium. If I had the option to add an extra plasma gunner to any SM squad in my army, I’d expect to pay moe then the cost of the gun for the privilege of bending the normal squad rules.

All told, I’d estimate 20-30 points would be fair. Probably 25, but I tend to estimate high on things.

35 points flat (so it would be 20 points I think if it were to be an upgrade option for a generic McMarine).

He effectively has an alternate version of the plasma gun and plasma pistol. However to directly give them the cost of a plasma gun and pistol would be overkill, as the pistol itself is already overcosted and characters with two special weapons generally get a discount.

However I'm in the camp that believes he won't be much of an issue. He threatens MCs and multi-wound characters but that's about it and you can only ever get one of him due to the unique rule. now if you could change one marine per squad (or heaven forbid, any marine that can take a special weapon to him) then it would be an issue.

using the da codex I get 14marine +15plasma/grav pistol +10combiweapon +0ccw = 39 points. expensive, as heck but very cool. where is he from

ssisal wrote:
using the da codex I get 14marine +15plasma/grav pistol +10combiweapon +0ccw = 39 points. expensive, as heck but very cool. where is he from

he's from the 2-day run of the 30th anniversary this weekend.

I wouldn't count the disintergrator gun as a traditional combi-weapon though because you can fire the non-bolter part as many times as you want rather than just 1 use.

In effect, he's holding three guns; a bolter, a disintergrator gun, and a disintergrator pistol.

I think +15-20 would be fair. Honestly, though, I agree with ME7000. I doubt he'll actually make much of an impact overall. Maybe we should at least play a game with a model before we start declaring it OP?

I would say he is 14 for the marine + 25 points for the combi + 15 for the pistol for a total 44pts.

I'm getting 25 points for the combi from the clan raukaan book. Since it has a combi weapon it that is similar. Pretty freaking awesome.

I say he should be free, but can only be used if your army consists solely of units that existed in 2nd edition.

what about an allied deathwatch kill squad consisting of ten chapters worth of heros?

 EnTyme wrote:
I think +15-20 would be fair. Honestly, though, I agree with ME7000. I doubt he'll actually make much of an impact overall. Maybe we should at least play a game with a model before we start declaring it OP?

I am not calling it OP. It is just the no points part that bothers me. Models and upgrades should always cost points.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

He effectively has an alternate version of the plasma gun and plasma pistol.

Does he really ? The instagib ability + not getting hot seems to be a big advantage over the Plasma weapons.

The disintegrator does get hot. Compared to the plasma gun you trade some range and 2S for instant death. Is that a fair trade? I think plasma is more generally useful, but there are a number of niche cases where the disintegrator pulls ahead.

If these things were in wide spread use, they might not be spammed everywhere, but you’d see a good number of them. There is a lot of nasty multi-wound stuff out there. And while S5 might have some issues getting a wound in, all you need is one.

Useless vs. tanks though, so the other guns are not totally eclipsed.

 Glitcha wrote:
I would say he is 14 for the marine + 25 points for the combi + 15 for the pistol for a total 44pts.

I'm getting 25 points for the combi from the clan raukaan book. Since it has a combi weapon it that is similar. Pretty freaking awesome.

You're getting 25 points for the combi from the Clan Raukaan book which is a Relic for a character.

This is a generic Marine. He's (Unique) so you can only ever have one, and he's a basic Infantry model meaning that you cannot protect him with LOS or anything.
Just throw a template down on the squad and you can nail him before he ever does anything.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Does he really ? The instagib ability + not getting hot seems to be a big advantage over the Plasma weapons.

The disintergrator gun still gets hot, it just has reduced range and strength. The instant death rule actually makes it more of a Monster hunter and Monstrous Infantry (basically non-MC or GMC models with more than one wound and T4 or higher) Hunter since Strength 5 does jack-all to AV12 or higher and anything with AV11 or AV10 usually dies to a gentle breeze anyways, while it doesn't have nearly enough shots to deal with hordes or even normal infantry (It would actually be worse than a plasma gun against TEQs due to the reduced range and lower strength).

However stuff like the tau battlesuits and junk? They're gonna crap their sand-yellow robo pants when they can't get out of range of this thing. But it's not very hard to stay out of range anyways.

 oldzoggy wrote:
This is a simple one how much should the special edition space marine actually cost ?

For those who don't know what it is here are the rules.

Spoiler:

14 points for a tac marine
+25 points for the combi-weapon
+ 15 points for the pistol
+1 point (at least) for the close combat weapon

(At least) 55 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Glitcha wrote:
I would say he is 14 for the marine + 25 points for the combi + 15 for the pistol for a total 44pts.

I'm getting 25 points for the combi from the clan raukaan book. Since it has a combi weapon it that is similar. Pretty freaking awesome.

14 + 25 + 15 = 54 points, not 44 points.

10 points extra, like with every combi-weapon.

You can add points for the pistol all you like, but you aren't going to use it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
10 points extra, like with every combi-weapon.

You can add points for the pistol all you like, but you aren't going to use it.

The catch is that his "combi weapon" isn't a one shot weapon.

Are we sure on that? Huh.

25 then?

Perhaps here's a different take on it:

The model in question is most comparable to a sternguard veteran model. He lacks veteran status, but has a cc weapon (for the extra attack), a cool pistol and a weapon that fires what basically feel like sternguard vengeance rounds, except +1 S, AP 2 (instead of 3) and with the instant death rule.

I think 30 points would be fair.

 EnTyme wrote:
Maybe we should at least play a game with a model before we start declaring it OP?

Why? The model is indisputably overpowered. It is better than the model it replaces, but costs zero additional points. It's a clear "pay to win" upgrade where handing GW more cash gives you better rules, and the only question is precisely how overpowered it is.

Seeing how it IS a special edition space marine. I do see how it cost's more than 10 shock trooper's I see how it could be a free swap for a regular space marine. I don't see a problem

 Commissar Terrence wrote:
Seeing how it IS a special edition space marine. I do see how it cost's more than 10 shock trooper's I see how it could be a free swap for a regular space marine. I don't see a problem

You don't see a problem with upgrading a space marine without paying for those upgrades?

Even in the form of paying a tax to get it?

At least a battle company requires you to field a bunch of a units you otherwise might not want to field.

This has literally no in-game cost to field beyond the model with which you are replacing it.

I say 25 points. The gun is very, very good, but short range, much like Grav weapons, so it should be priced accordingly.

 Grimmor wrote:
I say 25 points. The gun is very, very good, but short range, much like Grav weapons, so it should be priced accordingly.

A grav-gun is 15 ppm. Which leads us right back to 30 ppm, not 25.

Traditio wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:
I say 25 points. The gun is very, very good, but short range, much like Grav weapons, so it should be priced accordingly.

A grav-gun is 15 ppm. Which leads us right back to 30 ppm, not 25.

except he also has that Pistol and the CC weapon. I realize i wasnt clear and i just mean an extra 25 points for all of the extra crap he has, not just the gun.

 Grimmor wrote:

Traditio wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:
I say 25 points. The gun is very, very good, but short range, much like Grav weapons, so it should be priced accordingly.

A grav-gun is 15 ppm. Which leads us right back to 30 ppm, not 25.

except he also has that Pistol and the CC weapon. I realize i wasnt clear and i just mean an extra 25 points for all of the extra crap he has, not just the gun.

Oh, I see.

A 39 point model (let's just round that up to 40).

More expensive than a terminator?

It should be a 16-point upgrade.

One point for each dollar you paid for it, you gullible man you.

Too much. That's the answer.