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1) get the current legions red book (and in the (hopefully) soon future) get the crusades list
2) BAC is the typical go to for just starting out, though if you have patience, it's pretty easy to get a decent starting force through forge world (if you dislike MK IV, for example)
3) 30k is not really a competative game (at least, to the same degree of 40k), so bring whatever you think looks cool, NOT what you think is the absolute best.
4) Gal Vorbak are terrifying for word bearers, and if you are going with word bearers, you might want to look into erebus and kor phaeron.
5) if you do get BAC I highly recommend NOT playing a PotL list.

my rough 'i need help with 30k' points

What's a BAC and PotL?

 hcls315 wrote:
What's a BAC and PotL?

betrayal at Calth (the big board game that GW put out mostly to get people into 30k. It comes with 30 marines, 5 terminators, 1 contemptor, and 2 HQs)

Pride of the Legion (a mediocre right of war (basically something that lets you buff your army at the cost of specific limitations). you need a praetor (HQ option for legion lists, basically a suped-up chapter master) to bring one.)

I am planning on getting a BAC box set to split with a friend, but why then would I not want a PotL list?

I really dig the Ashen Circle.

 combat engineer wrote:
I really dig the Ashen Circle.

the models are amazing too. Alot better then normal jump troops.

Do not BoC everyone does, take your time and bukld a proper legion.

Save and buy exactly what you want. I did that with my both of my HH armies. Onto the third...

 hcls315 wrote:
but why then would I not want a PotL list?

Horus Heresy is about death. It's a game where you watch full strength 20-man marine squads get annihilated in a single turn. The advantage of Pride of the Legion is that it lets you not take cheap cannon fodder to absorb the enemies fire, at the benefit of giving the enemy bonus victory points when he's annihilated your small expensive troop squads.

Some people have an axe to grind against the PotL rite. If it helps you get your army on the table faster, I say go for it. Just start thinking about what other rite(s) you might want to build toward as your army expands.

For WB best unit is Gal Vorbak

They will tear through almost all other units short of Primarchs in close combat.

Give them a delivery vehicle if possible.

I have found a squad of them with a sgt with artificer armor can be very tough esp if you use the SGT right to tank anything not AP2 since he has 3 wounds!

Also if you put a chaplain with them makes them even more super lethal on the charge and another 2+ armor guys to absorb hits if you need to esp since the SGT can accept challenges the squad gets hit with, and well a Demon SGT with 3 wounds and a rending instant death weapon and a 2+/5++ at init 5 is scary for most things to face in 30k.

Not to mention if you chaplain gets the BIO power to give the squad FNP 4+ or if you don't want to chance your bio powers grab an apothecary to make them even more scary.....

Also demon allies.......I found the WB abit weak compared to other legions if you just use basic equipment as they don't get anything all that great esp when you look at like Salamanders--their specials are insanely good compared to WB.....however with lack of psykers in 30k stacking up an allied demon detachment actually augments the WB quite abit...and I think in effect is how FW decided to make them balanced compared to the super powers of some of the loyalist legions.

I do feel in general most of the Loyalist legions got better special rules than the traitor legions, just look at the rules and you can see...
Just my 2 cents.

 hcls315 wrote:
I am planning on getting a BAC box set to split with a friend, but why then would I not want a PotL list?

It' a useful rite of war when you're starting out, as it allows you to field an army quickly, but it's not that good when compared to other rites. Plus, you might want to take me of the much fluffier Word Bearer specific rites, and you can only take one.

A box of BaC is a good start for an army, but half a box (if you're splitting) won't help as much. Bear in mind you can spread your models out by mixing with spare 40k parts.

I don't know much about WB (my only expierience is killing them) but you should be able to start an army with half a BaC. If one of you takes 10 marines and the Termies, they can run PotL, the other can take the other two 10 man squads, and gives them all bolters, they can run whatever Rite they want.

chaos45 wrote:
Also demon allies.......I found the WB abit weak compared to other legions if you just use basic equipment as they don't get anything all that great esp when you look at like Salamanders--their specials are insanely good compared to WB.....however with lack of psykers in 30k stacking up an allied demon detachment actually augments the WB quite abit...and I think in effect is how FW decided to make them balanced compared to the super powers of some of the loyalist legions.

I do feel in general most of the Loyalist legions got better special rules than the traitor legions, just look at the rules and you can see...
Just my 2 cents.

I'd say that Gal Vorbak, rolling 3d6 for morale checks, access to Daemon allies (they can do this now through a HQ unit, meaning they can use their RoW for some other benefit), and competence with psychics including malefic daemonology adds up to a *very* solid legion that's better than many.

Almost every legion has an underwhelming special unit and IC or two.

3d6 for morale checks isnt all its cracked up to be first off when several legions are basically fearless already or have their own bonus morale rules.

Daemon allies is the best things the WB really have going for them.

The Gal Vorbak are awesome but many other legions also have some very good special units/rules that easily equal or surpass them and most of those legions actually have good rites or war. The WB specific rights of war are pretty weak all in all IMO aside from allowing the deamon allies----which is more a crutch for a weak army than a true rules bonus.

I know the crunch supposedly isnt as big a deal in 30k but its there, and in general WB are a subpar legion rules wise aside from awesome models and the fact you get to be the first true chaos legion.

Primarchs of course change things as Logar transformed is awesome with picked powers but I tend to try to see how balanced things are without the super powered primarchs as it shouldnt be required you play with your primarch every game to be an equal terms.

Needless to say I disagree the legions are as balanced as people think. The Ultras and Imperial fists both are very good legions, the salamanders with their Right of war allowing them to shrug off melta/plasma hits is a massive bonus...not to mention all their other legion bonuses to morale/fearless/higher fire str wpns, and enemy fire weapons have less str....

just really look at the bonus rules and you will see the bias built into the legions.

hcls315 wrote:
I am planning on getting a BAC box set to split with a friend, but why then would I not want a PotL list?

for starters don't try to get into 30k with half of BaC if you can help it, it just won't give you enough points as the whole box only nets you 1550 if you are going for PotL as your rite and the points of it split in half won't be even either if you plan on playing vs your friend.
also there isn't anything wrong with PotL for some reason some people dislike it when people use it as it supposedly sub-optimal but just ignore them, your venture into 30k should be all about rule of cool not making the most broken list possible.

Betrayal at Calth is quite possibly the best product games workshop has ever released.

My Imperial Fists are a mixture of mk III and IV. My Alpha Legion is mostly decked out in MK IV, thanks to Calth.