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What I mean is. Walker's, skimmers. More infantry besides guardsmen blobs and veteran's. I think they don't need anymore heavy weapons. But as i was looking at the 5th (or 3rd) edition codex, they had PLENTY of units besides tanks. So, just what do you think about that situation.

You couldn't have posted this in one of the other two threads about Guard right now--one of which you created?

Guard are some of the toughest, scariest units in the game. What other army can spam tanks that are s8 ap3 large blast 48"?

You might want to change the threat title since its too close to one whose thread is already at 5 pages. Also this might be better if you just posted in that thread actually since its still somewhat related and its frowned upon to fragment into several separate threads when you can do it all in one.

In any case, I think the IG has the right amount of walkers and personally I would think it goes against their aesthetic if they got any kind of skimmer that wasn't just a VTOL or flyer going into hover mode. The guard aren't about fancy or super manoeuvrable tech, they're about resilient and reliable, if often ponderous, on-the-ground tracked vehicles that footsloggers support with overwhelming bodies and firepower. Sentinels and the Hellhound are good enough IMO for fast response units that just need to be tweaked ruleswise to make them better.

I'm presuming you're referring to penal legion squads when you say more infantry since besides that they haven't lost anything besides that IMO since the new codex, they've kept the wrydvane psykers (psyker battle squads), the scions (stormtroopers), the abhumans and rough riders. The main issue is that most of them are in the elites slot and are largely crap compared to the rest of the army.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Guard are some of the toughest, scariest units in the game. What other army can spam tanks that are s8 ap3 large blast 48"?

lol.

Bring Haywire or anything that can glance them to death and watch those tanks die.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Guard are some of the toughest, scariest units in the game. What other army can spam tanks that are s8 ap3 large blast 48"?

lol.

Bring Haywire or anything that can glance them to death and watch those tanks die.

Not even, with only 6" movement and inability to flat out except via orders, they die to rear armour attacks from a joe schmoe tactical marine squad. Even a dinky small squad of boyz have a good chance of glancing it to death if it isn't the demolisher variants.

Guard are all about tanks and infantry. I'd even remove walkers if they weren't AT-ST rip offs and lightly armoured. If they have dreadnought or crisis suits I'd be livid. Even bikes don't really fit the trench warfare style of guard, and cavalry only because WW1 had cavalry

But a motorcycle and side car combo would be great. A squad of 3 equpid with heavy stubber as part of a platoon would be perfect.

UrsoerTheSquid wrote:
But a motorcycle and side car combo would be great. A squad of 3 equpid with heavy stubber as part of a platoon would be perfect.

It would look good, very WW1, but the Imperial Guard are more WW1 in nature, with trench warfare, forced charges into enemy guns, horses, etc.

 Deadshot wrote:

UrsoerTheSquid wrote:
But a motorcycle and side car combo would be great. A squad of 3 equpid with heavy stubber as part of a platoon would be perfect.

It would look good, very WW1, but the Imperial Guard are more WW1 in nature, with trench warfare, forced charges into enemy guns, horses, etc.

Eh, Not really.
It depends on the regiment.
Catachans are like vietnam war, Krieg are WW1, Cadians are supposed to be more like today's forces, though their tactics aren't quite the same, and Elysians fight like today's forces.
Trying to claim the entirety of the IG fight like WW1 soldiers just isn't accurate.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Guard are some of the toughest, scariest units in the game. What other army can spam tanks that are s8 ap3 large blast 48"?

Honestly can't tell if this is sarcastic...

Guard: 150 points for a large blast S8 AP3 Ordnance. Moves 6", 3HP, rear armor 10 so dies in melee to anything stronger than a guardsman. Wounded on 2+ by haywire weaponry. No basic save. AP2 and 1 weaponry can instantly explode.

Tau: 185 points for a large blast S9 AP2 Ordnance. Moves 6" plus 2D6" after it shoots. S6 2+ armor 5++ invuln 5 wounds. Can be upgraded to work against flyers. Easy access to ignores cover. Can Smash in melee. Can be upgraded to have FNP on top of its already 3x-4x survivability on average vs the tank. Can be upgraded with Interceptor.

Be careful what you wish for. We got 4+ save Ogryns at last but instead of ripper guns they have goofy mortar fists and riot shields.
We finally got plastic stormies and instead of greatcoated badasses or futuristic special forces we got a weird mixture of fantasy knights and goggle eyed helghast.

Our next infantry release is just as likely to be Blood-trench Endurers or Grim-march Advancers.

ITT

person 1 : the guard are a monolith.
person2 : We are not a monolith!

Me: We are not a monolith!

I do like the Scion designs, but I don't think the baroque armor approach fits in with the rest of the guard aesthetic.
They really should have just updated the old Storm Trooper design, instead of making it ornate.

These stormtroopers, btw, not Kasrkin, which should be a Cadian specific thing. No idea how to resize, sorry.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I do like the Scion designs, but I don't think the baroque armor approach doesn't fit in with the rest of the guard aesthetic.
They really should have just updated the old Storm Trooper design, instead of making it ornate.

I agree completely. I recently made this my commander from Telion.

I now want to make a kill team like him, but don't want to use scouts. If they made a new Kasyrkin plastic kit I'd be elated.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I do like the Scion designs, but I think the baroque armor approach doesn't fit in with the rest of the guard aesthetic.
They really should have just updated the old Storm Trooper design, instead of making it ornate.

Scions aren't part of the Guard proper.
They're part of the Ordo Tempestus.


You might think it stupid to differentiate it, but it's kinda important. They're trying to make it clear that the Scions are a directly Imperial organization, they answer to the Imperium first with no planetary homes to really concern themselves with.

Aren't there still regiment specific stormtrooper units though?
Like, there are Scions, and then you have things like Kasrkin, Krieg Grenadiers, and whatever the Mordian equivalents are called, and so on.

Those are just veteran units, as it stands right now.

Which means the Hardened Veterans with Grenadiers option.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Aren't there still regiment specific stormtrooper units though?
Like, there are Scions, and then you have things like Kasrkin, Krieg Grenadiers, and whatever the Mordian equivalents are called, and so on.

They are called Grenadiers. They are equipped and trained to the same standard as Stormtroopers but they fight alongside their regular counterparts.

Ah. Well, guess baroque troopers it is then.
I guess it makes sense that they look so different.

Before we get more shiny units GW needs to fix the existing ones....
Like they have been needing too for the past couple of years.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ah. Well, guess baroque troopers it is then.
I guess it makes sense that they look so different.

I never really had a problem with the change over, I guess im weird and I even own a whole bunch of Kasrkin! But it makes sense, the Scions are supposed to be this mysterious and somewhat eccentric shadow organization at the beck and call of the Administratum to do their dirty work and to ensure that potential military threats can be cut off at the head before guardsman are called in. They will get the very best gear the administratum can get their hands on, which being 40k means its going to be overly ornate and probably borderline ancient.

I've actually taken to thinking of them as being a Space Marine "alternative" because any commander worth his salt knows that once they come into the battle they will likely usurp his command or cause any number of headaches. With scions he will have more tactical flexibility and a force of unshakable loyal (to him at least) soldiers.

As for alternative infantry, I would like to see a return of penal legions, while a bit superfluous they were some random fun that could really lead to some fun times on the battle field, especially if you rolled what you thought was not a good skill, like knife fighters, then found yourself ripping up in CC. One of my more memorable 6th edition combats was penal legion and Yarrick vs a lone Tycho. The two would duke it out for over 3 rounds with Yarrick coming back up for more, and getting rerolls while the penal legionnaires cheered him and probably making bets.

Another alternative would be to have conscripts as their own separate unit at an increased cost with the option for endless reinforcements, ala Captain Chenkov, but without the special character. Pretty much you can have special infantry units that mirror the old special characters, like having light infantry in the vein of Al Rahem that outflanks via an increased cost per squad and call them Recon or Scouts. You can even have infantry that can purchase specialties like veteran doctrines that work similarly but affect a whole platoon, like infiltrate and camo cloaks, or drug kits that give a 6+ fnp. All of these would have to be purchased on a platoon basis so it would be somewhat cost prohibited unless you were going to be dedicated to the concept and to prevent people from creating silly super combos (i hate those!).

You can even have some sort of elite specialist units that can have army buffing effects , like recon units that can grant scatterless deepstrike, or reduced scatter on ordnance, or maybe turn into snipers. Another interesting idea would be demolition squads who can be loaded with demo charges and infiltrate (or even set charges around the map, like you place 5-6 numbered tokens and you select before the game which ones are bombs)

Heck, just make the whole thing a commander purchase option like with the heretics that alter how your army plays like master or hordes or ordnance tyrant, Hell, it already exists, copy it dammit!

Theres so much that can be done without much effort or even new models on guardsman to make them more diverse and powerful.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I do like the Scion designs, but I think the baroque armor approach doesn't fit in with the rest of the guard aesthetic.
They really should have just updated the old Storm Trooper design, instead of making it ornate.

Scions aren't part of the Guard proper.
They're part of the Ordo Tempestus.


You might think it stupid to differentiate it, but it's kinda important. They're trying to make it clear that the Scions are a directly Imperial organization, they answer to the Imperium first with no planetary homes to really concern themselves with.

The Storm trooper models as shown above were different than any existing guard line. It's the Kasrkin who are specifically Cadian grenadiers- a storm trooper equivalent.
Stormies are still supplied by the Munitorum, meaning they shouldn't look any more baroque than a guardsman, just more heavily equipped/armoured. They are orphans raised by the Munitorum to be killing machines, not princes or nobility.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Guard are some of the toughest, scariest units in the game. What other army can spam tanks that are s8 ap3 large blast 48"?

lol.

Bring Haywire or anything that can glance them to death and watch those tanks die.

Not even, with only 6" movement and inability to flat out except via orders, they die to rear armour attacks from a joe schmoe tactical marine squad. Even a dinky small squad of boyz have a good chance of glancing it to death if it isn't the demolisher variants.

I can attest to this. I had a Tactical Squad run up and blow Pask to smithereens. Don't even get me started on what happens when my Sternguard come out to play with Guard.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Guard are some of the toughest, scariest units in the game. What other army can spam tanks that are s8 ap3 large blast 48"?

I fething hate playing against IG. In part because of this.