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A local tournament's started last week, and there's about 25 of us in it at the moment, but the funny thing is, no-one is using Orks.

Multiple Guard, Inquisition, Tyrannids, Spehs Merheens, etc., but no Orks.
Heck, I'm the only one using any Mechanicu(s/m) stuff, with Skitarii &Taghmata Reductor, and they have options for everything.

All the armies in the tournament are either 750 or 1000 pts. I guess this isn't enough to safely get Orks into melée, despite only using 48" x 48" boards?
I've not actually read the Ork codex, so I'm none too versed on their capabilities, but it always looked versatile enough to me.

Orks are fantastic from a modelling perspective. I've had the most fun building and modifying Orks.

As for the tabletop - I don't expect them to win. There are a few good units and builds, but I've been around too long to give a rats-arse about buying up stuff just to be competitive based on what stock the fickle fates at GW decide they want to shift.

I expect this may be the case for many other disenfranchised players.

They don't kinda suck. They do suck. I play orks and space marines and orks are not anywhere close to being good sadly. I love my orks to death, but they are just plain inferior to just about every other army from a competitive standpoint.

Not sure if trolling or living under a stone.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VtLp-2C8S8
Note this was before any other 7th codex was released and thus before the huge powercreep of the 7th edition.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Not sure if trolling or living under a stone.



Automatically Appended Next Post:



Living under a stone because someone has other things to do then read every codex?

I've seen people mistakenly use "of" instead of "have" many times, but this is the first I've seen "-'ve" instead of "of."

Sorry, not a very worthwhile comment, but it was interesting to me.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I've seen people mistakenly use "of" instead of "have" many times, but this is the first I've seen "-'ve" instead of "of."

Sorry, not a very worthwhile comment, but it was interesting to me.

This is the only reason I opened the thread. A completely new way to mangle the English language!

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I've seen people mistakenly use "of" instead of "have" many times, but this is the first I've seen "-'ve" instead of "of."

Sorry, not a very worthwhile comment, but it was interesting to me.

Yeah, I had to read the thread title several times to figure out what was being said...

Orks will be competitive as soon as the new flier hits stores. This model's going to change the meta, I'm sure of it! You heard it here first.

Its not that Orks suck, they are a great army... it's just (sadly) many other army's can do it better.
Which makes it all the sweeter when da Orkz get the 'W' in a competitive setting.

One of our three Orks players won our last 1850 local event. It was basic maelstrom and his double CAD loaded with boys/painboy or nobs with claws in lots of trukks and many bikers would out swarm everything.

Lock everything into combat, power claw anything, abuse Boss Pole and Lucky Stick. Let those little copters or empty Trukks grab objectives.

Abuse boss pole.

"Ha, now you've fallen in my trap, instead of running away I've...

*reroll*

HA, only killed 4 of my own guys!"

Draco765 wrote:
One of our three Orks players won our last 1850 local event. It was basic maelstrom and his double CAD loaded with boys/painboy or nobs with claws in lots of trukks and many bikers would out swarm everything.

Lock everything into combat, power claw anything, abuse Boss Pole and Lucky Stick. Let those little copters or empty Trukks grab objectives.

Either your Meta is full of bad players (not trying to be insulting) or you have one of the best/luckiest ork players in the game in your meta. Nothing about Orks right now is competitive. The only slightly competitive builds orks have right now is the Forgeworld Biker Warboss who turns bikes into troops, so that way you can spam Warbikers (arguably one of the best units in our terrible dex)

I played an ITC style tournament this last December and got 2nd with a biker-oriented Orks 1850 list. Fighting through White Scars, Sisters of Battle, Imperial Guard, Eldar, and Imperial Fists and managing to get every primary and almost every secondary mission objective through mobility, positioning and lots of power klaws.

Unfortunately, footslogging lists aren't as strong as they used to be with super heavies and gargantuans hanging around to nuke you off the board. Many of the units in the codex are bad compared to Eldar, Tau, Necron, Marines and Mechanicus units for dealing with specific threats. Most Ork units are close combat oriented but have low initiative or lack invul saves so it is hard to chew through anything with storm shields or feel no pain or high toughness. The lack of versatile psykers and a shallow pool of powers hurts vs daemons and super friends lists as well. Another problem I find with the army now is that the Great Waaagh! Detachment has been removed/replaced in the updated version of the Ghaz supplement.

I think the advantages of an Ork army (besides the aesthetic and modelling potential) are that they can be fast and dangerous if some of them are ignored. In a maelstrom mission the ability to hide some grots behind a terrain piece or swamp an objective in angry green rugby players can change the outcome or make your opponent go "what do I do about that?". Orks are bad at shooting but can output a large volume of fire with certain units. Mostly they are just fun and it feels really good when you get a close game vs one of the more 'meta' armies. Play the mission and krump some gitz.

Long-winded fanboy of greenskins' description aside;
Pros:
-warbikers
-low point costs
-lootas
-tankbustas
-painboys
Cons:
-mob rule
-low initiative
-lack of ap2 long range outside of mek gunz
-low leadership
-scarce invul saves
Orks aren't the strongest army but definitely not the weakest. Their formations aren't flashy but they still work in a CAD(s). I would not say suck, but mediocre can describe most of the units in the codex
If you play their strengths and know their limits you can have fun vs the "overpowered" and "overplayed" armies of 7th edition.

Orks are not abysmal but surely not as good as the newer armies. You can still pull off some wins. As long as i've been playing orkses it's always been the same - we're only winning by running anti-meta stuff.

 koooaei wrote:
Orks are not abysmal but surely not as good as the newer armies. You can still pull off some wins. As long as i've been playing orkses it's always been the same - we're only winning by running anti-meta stuff.

Play 2nd ed Games became so much more fun after switching edition. Bit of work to fit some of the newer stuff in but...

Kinda refreshing to have orks that actually can shoot something. Mob of deth skulls with heavy bolters will make IG troopers worried of advancing on an open field.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I've seen people mistakenly use "of" instead of "have" many times, but this is the first I've seen "-'ve" instead of "of."

Sorry, not a very worthwhile comment, but it was interesting to me.

This is the only reason I opened the thread. A completely new way to mangle the English language!

Mangling English is very orky.

Orks have sadly sucked for a long time now, they don't seem to have a fan in the dev team so just get the minimal work done to them.

the_scotsman wrote:
Abuse boss pole.

"Ha, now you've fallen in my trap, instead of running away I've...

*reroll*

HA, only killed 4 of my own guys!"

And then made the 4+ armor save or feel no pain and no one died, and I will Lucky stick the fails...


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SemperMortis wrote:

Draco765 wrote:
One of our three Orks players won our last 1850 local event. It was basic maelstrom and his double CAD loaded with boys/painboy or nobs with claws in lots of trukks and many bikers would out swarm everything.

Lock everything into combat, power claw anything, abuse Boss Pole and Lucky Stick. Let those little copters or empty Trukks grab objectives.

Either your Meta is full of bad players (not trying to be insulting) or you have one of the best/luckiest ork players in the game in your meta. Nothing about Orks right now is competitive. The only slightly competitive builds orks have right now is the Forgeworld Biker Warboss who turns bikes into troops, so that way you can spam Warbikers (arguably one of the best units in our terrible dex)

It was three rounds maelstrom missions pre-picked by the TO the day before, then adding up the total victory points scored each round. After the 1st round you go against similar victory point levels. If I remember correctly he played against:
Another ork player, SM Drop Pod heavy list with grav bikers and then against the 5 Imperial Knight army (had a 2 forgeworld knights in there).

We are a little more casual, but a win is still a win.

It can be done. Some dedicated ork players have placed very highly based on a couple key builds. Basically, either green tide or bikerstar + MSU, with max tankbustas and a VSG for either. You don't usually see orks do it often because they're one of the least played races sadly, and one of the most expensive and labour intensive.

The zhadstar especially can be effective with it's T5/6 4+/2++/5+++, I4 pk boss, and probably another boss with a pk and the lucky stick for +1 WS and 2++ rerolls, a nob pk, and a painboy to boot, ouch. 10 WS 6 S10 AP2, 4 WS5 S9(8) AP2, 4 4+ poison attacks, and the rest of the ork bikers (3A base, WS 4 S4), and all their impact hits. Plus 40+ TL dakkagun shots will wipe a large scout squad, minimum tact squad, a AV10-11 HP3 vehicle on average per shooting phase for some extra pop, maybe some light AA. That's scary for any army. MSU ork biker spam is almost as effective as Eldar scatbike spam. Less mobile, worse but still decent shooting, better in CC and tougher overall. (T5, 3++ standard.) Invisible can be a problem but zhad strikes at I4 with S10 AP2, can beat SM ICs reliably in challenges. One stray hit and tiggy is misted. If we're talking tiggy+draigo superfriends then we are exploding past the zhadstar in terms of points, trading in scoring for star survivability, and leaving the door open for an objectives victory with the MSU Obsec biker portion of the list. Orks can be pretty good at tar pitting too, which would come in handy here. The tiggy-draigo build is a defensive build after all, and Draigo's gates power would leave him unable to charge, so he couldn't engage the bikers in CC unless they wanted to, leaving him vulnerable to kiting, leaving all the damage output of a unit worth half of the list down to psyker abilities. There are some nice ones, but the best psyker abilities are buffs by far. Constantly rolling invisibility and sanctuary eats warp charges and prevent offensive focus to shift the game.

Bullyboyz is another great approach. +1 WS, fear, fearless. 2 W, 2+ save! If your opponent cannot deal with them before I step 1, and since most AP2 CCWs are I 1, that means potentially 20 WS5 S9 (basically instakilling) AP2 attacks. Even wraithknights will crumple to that if it's waiting for it's I 1 stomp attacks. (with 4 A and 4's to hit, if it's not a glaive knight I don't see any MANz going down, and maybe 2 if it is.) With a trukk, 5 MANz vs WK are equal points cost too, but even more mobile.

One player placed 9th at LVO, and blogged about it here. He ran a green tide + VSG. Very nasty.

Anyway, it can be done. Orks with rerollable 2++/5+++ who can instakill that many models in CC, even the competitive lists have to be on their toes.

Very helpful replies and insight, thankyou.

Orks aren't the strongest army but definitely not the weakest.

I'm curious now as to what the weakest is, or at least, the generally weakest.
(As you can probably tell, I haven't the foggiest about the meta. I've only played 7 matches to date)

I've never seen any Tzeentch Demons in any Demon armies I've seen.

 TheWaspinator wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I've seen people mistakenly use "of" instead of "have" many times, but this is the first I've seen "-'ve" instead of "of."

Sorry, not a very worthwhile comment, but it was interesting to me.

This is the only reason I opened the thread. A completely new way to mangle the English language!

Mangling English is very orky.

Choosing 've instead of 'f is for the sake of sentence flow, and is indicative of the spoken form.
The deep drone of kind've rolls better than the airiness of kind'f, but the tone of sound is there to betray the definitiveness of the opinion.

 slip wrote:
It can be done. Some dedicated ork players have placed very highly based on a couple key builds. Basically, either green tide or bikerstar + MSU, with max tankbustas and a VSG for either. You don't usually see orks do it often because they're one of the least played races sadly, and one of the most expensive and labour intensive.

The zhadstar especially can be effective with it's T5/6 4+/2++/5+++, I4 pk boss, and probably another boss with a pk and the lucky stick for +1 WS and 2++ rerolls, a nob pk, and a painboy to boot, ouch. 10 WS 6 S10 AP2, 4 WS5 S9(8) AP2, 4 4+ poison attacks, and the rest of the ork bikers (3A base, WS 4 S4), and all their impact hits. Plus 40+ TL dakkagun shots will wipe a large scout squad, minimum tact squad, a AV10-11 HP3 vehicle on average per shooting phase for some extra pop, maybe some light AA. That's scary for any army. MSU ork biker spam is almost as effective as Eldar scatbike spam. Less mobile, worse but still decent shooting, better in CC and tougher overall. (T5, 3++ standard.) Invisible can be a problem but zhad strikes at I4 with S10 AP2, can beat SM ICs reliably in challenges. One stray hit and tiggy is misted. If we're talking tiggy+draigo superfriends then we are exploding past the zhadstar in terms of points, trading in scoring for star survivability, and leaving the door open for an objectives victory with the MSU Obsec biker portion of the list. Orks can be pretty good at tar pitting too, which would come in handy here. The tiggy-draigo build is a defensive build after all, and Draigo's gates power would leave him unable to charge, so he couldn't engage the bikers in CC unless they wanted to, leaving him vulnerable to kiting, leaving all the damage output of a unit worth half of the list down to psyker abilities. There are some nice ones, but the best psyker abilities are buffs by far. Constantly rolling invisibility and sanctuary eats warp charges and prevent offensive focus to shift the game.

Bullyboyz is another great approach. +1 WS, fear, fearless. 2 W, 2+ save! If your opponent cannot deal with them before I step 1, and since most AP2 CCWs are I 1, that means potentially 20 WS5 S9 (basically instakilling) AP2 attacks. Even wraithknights will crumple to that if it's waiting for it's I 1 stomp attacks. (with 4 A and 4's to hit, if it's not a glaive knight I don't see any MANz going down, and maybe 2 if it is.) With a trukk, 5 MANz vs WK are equal points cost too, but even more mobile.

One player placed 9th at LVO, and blogged about it here. He ran a green tide + VSG. Very nasty.

Anyway, it can be done. Orks with rerollable 2++/5+++ who can instakill that many models in CC, even the competitive lists have to be on their toes.

I never use Forgeworld so I honestly do not know, but where the hell are all these invulnerable saves coming from for the ork player? As it stands the only way to get a invul save is to take a bigmek with a KFF (MFF) for a 5++ or 4++, and then only against shooting...and it costs 50 (75) respectively just for the gear, not counting upgrading a mek to be on bike and what not. So where the hell are all these 2++'s and what not you see?


Ohh and no Ork player placed in 9th at the LVO, in fact I don't think a single Ork army placed in the top 50.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I've seen people mistakenly use "of" instead of "have" many times, but this is the first I've seen "-'ve" instead of "of."

Sorry, not a very worthwhile comment, but it was interesting to me.

That's why I clicked on this thread

*Shameless plug for NetEA and this mini line: http://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/product-category/defeat-in-detail/skinnerz/ *


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 Buddingsquaw wrote:

I'm curious now as to what the weakest is, or at least, the generally weakest.
(As you can probably tell, I haven't the foggiest about the meta. I've only played 7 matches to date)

CSM.

Been shat on by GW for years,

 Buddingsquaw wrote:


Choosing 've instead of 'f is for the sake of sentence flow, and is indicative of the spoken form.
The deep drone of kind've rolls better than the airiness of kind'f, but the tone of sound is there to betray the definitiveness of the opinion.

But what you're trying to say (should be saying) is "kind of."

-ve is the contraction for have...

Ork's versus Tau. I won with one ork as a causality....

(We were using a starter set. And my opponent had a very bad tau setup)

I never use Forgeworld so I honestly do not know, but where the hell are all these invulnerable saves coming from for the ork player? As it stands the only way to get a invul save is to take a bigmek with a KFF (MFF) for a 5++ or 4++, and then only against shooting...and it costs 50 (75) respectively just for the gear, not counting upgrading a mek to be on bike and what not. So where the hell are all these 2++'s and what not you see?

The inv save is a lie.

I own a Ia8 copy and IT isnt in there nor is IT in that outdated PDF file.
Zardsnark da rippa only has a 6+ sv and No inv or any other protection.
The only model dat had An inv svv in Close combat is nadruk (and ggaz when hè waaghes)

Orks Are not a Close combat army. No really they aren't. Dure they van butcher defenseless shooty units in close combat, but any Decent dedicated Close combat squad wil murder any "deadstar" you van come up with in Close combat.
There is just No way that not having An in save + striking last is going to cut IT..


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Ugh my cellphone likes to make things interesting today

 Selym wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I've seen people mistakenly use "of" instead of "have" many times, but this is the first I've seen "-'ve" instead of "of."

Sorry, not a very worthwhile comment, but it was interesting to me.

That's why I clicked on this thread

*Shameless plug for NetEA and this mini line: http://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/product-category/defeat-in-detail/skinnerz/ *


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Buddingsquaw wrote:

I'm curious now as to what the weakest is, or at least, the generally weakest.
(As you can probably tell, I haven't the foggiest about the meta. I've only played 7 matches to date)

CSM.

Been shat on by GW for years,

No way. IG hands down. They've gotten updates and still suck. I'd still say IG, as I never see any close games with them. It's they either keep people from assaulting their tanks or they die immediately.

IG is significantly better than BA or CSM. It's a shooty edition, after all.

IG is propped up by a few good/decent units: Pasknisher and Executioner buddies, Wyverns, that one ignores cover Mont'ka formation, meltavets in Chimeras, and massive blobs with priests attached for fearless and Primaris Psykers attached for LD/buffs.

They're okay, but can't really hang with the big boys. I'm not going to start playing the "who's worse?" game though.

 oldzoggy wrote:

I never use Forgeworld so I honestly do not know, but where the hell are all these invulnerable saves coming from for the ork player? As it stands the only way to get a invul save is to take a bigmek with a KFF (MFF) for a 5++ or 4++, and then only against shooting...and it costs 50 (75) respectively just for the gear, not counting upgrading a mek to be on bike and what not. So where the hell are all these 2++'s and what not you see?

The inv save is a lie.

I own a Ia8 copy and IT isnt in there nor is IT in that outdated PDF file.
Zardsnark da rippa only has a 6+ sv and No inv or any other protection.
The only model dat had An inv svv in Close combat is nadruk (and ggaz when hè waaghes)

Orks Are not a Close combat army. No really they aren't. Dure they van butcher defenseless shooty units in close combat, but any Decent dedicated Close combat squad wil murder any "deadstar" you van come up with in Close combat.
There is just No way that not having An in save + striking last is going to cut IT..


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Ugh my cellphone likes to make things interesting today

yeah IM pretty sure "Slip" doesn't know what the feth he is talking about in regards to orks.

2++ may be referring to Jink saves?