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So, I'm curious about AoS background, so I figured that I could ask my fellow Dakkanites for help. My main question(s) being: What are the basic backgrounds of each faction? What are their motives? Description of their leaders? Thanks in advance, and here's to hoping for quick responses.
Edit: And if anyone else has their own questions regarding AoS fluff, feel free to ask them here.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/10 11:37:59
Irishpeacockz-Blackjack needs a pay raise for being the welcomer to the crusade
Palleus-Write a school essay about Kroot! Pride. Prejudice. And Cannibalsim.
Order: Stormcasts clear out the bulk of Chaos forces from the lands, and now its the mortals' job to hold and recolonize said lands.
Death: Serve the will of Nagash, the will of your overlord, or your own interests. In that order.
Destruction: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!
Chaos: Same sort of thing Chaos normally does/did in WHFB or 40k. Avoid death and seek worthy foes to defeat in attempting to catch the gaze of your patron.
Don't short change yourself on the rich background of AoS. You'll only get the Cliffs Notes version on the boards. Invest in some AoS reading. It's well worth it. I'd recommend the 'Realmgate Wars' series.
BigWaaagh wrote: Don't short change yourself on the rich background of AoS. You'll only get the Cliffs Notes version on the boards. Invest in some AoS reading. It's well worth it. I'd recommend the 'Realmgate Wars' series.
Indeed Gav Thorpe's warbeast novel is good and the audio drama's are good as well.
Thanks everyone, I'll definitely have to get a few books then. Although I am curious about how the four main divisions work. I take it that dwarves, elves, and lizard men (can't remember their new name) are a part of that?
Irishpeacockz-Blackjack needs a pay raise for being the welcomer to the crusade
Palleus-Write a school essay about Kroot! Pride. Prejudice. And Cannibalsim.
Sigmar is a coward and left all humanity to die. He couldn't win, so he tuck tailed and went home. Only after Chaos was spread thin did Sigmar come back and try to claim his "vengeance".
He is nothing but a Slave Master who takes people against their will only to serve his own will. He must be expunged and is a blight to humanity.
Well that is the way I see it, and I am sticking to my story.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
Davor wrote: Sigmar is a coward and left all humanity to die. He couldn't win, so he tuck tailed and went home. Only after Chaos was spread thin did Sigmar come back and try to claim his "vengeance".
He is nothing but a Slave Master who takes people against their will only to serve his own will. He must be expunged and is a blight to humanity.
Well that is the way I see it, and I am sticking to my story.
Don't forget him lobbing his hammer away in a hissy fit before doing so. Unfit to rule that guy, Blood for the blood God etc!
Davor wrote: Sigmar is a coward and left all humanity to die. He couldn't win, so he tuck tailed and went home. Only after Chaos was spread thin did Sigmar come back and try to claim his "vengeance".
He is nothing but a Slave Master who takes people against their will only to serve his own will. He must be expunged and is a blight to humanity.
Well that is the way I see it, and I am sticking to my story.
Funny enough I imagine this is how nagash views sigmar since he did the opposite he stood and fought to defend his realm the audio drama's go into his thoughts and how he currently feels about the situation with sigmar, chaos and the stormcast.
Nagash: "THEY DO NOT BELONG TO SIGMAR. SIGMAR THE DECEIVER. SIGMAR THE BARBARIAN. SIGMAR THE TRAITOR. WHO ALMOST COST AN UNDYING KING HIS KINGDOM."
Hell one of the stormcast called nagash a coward for recovering in the underworld after his fight with Archaon(Nagash pretty much said he almost chopped him in half) then mannfred retorted to something of the effect "What of sigmar running away and sealing the doors behind him leaving everyone in the hands of chaos?" yeah lets just say that certain lord Relicator got owned.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/29 13:05:58
2BlackJack1 wrote: So, I'm curious about AoS background, so I figured that I could ask my fellow Dakkanites for help. My main question(s) being: What are the basic backgrounds of each faction? What are their motives? Description of their leaders? Thanks in advance, and here's to hoping for quick responses.
The books themselves haven't made things crystal clear, so some of this is just my understanding of what I have read, but here's my take:
At the end of WFB, the old world was broken apart by the winds of magic, and mortal species came to dwell within realms of magic. Many of the "incarnates" of the End Times wound up in a realm corresponding to the magic they were an incarnate of, and thus became a god in that realm.
One who featured most prominently is Sigmar, who clung to the burning core of the old world, until he was shown Azyr, realm of celestial magic by a dragon who is also a constellation of stars.
Following this, Sigmar sought out the other incarnates, now ascended to godhood, and created an alliance. This means for a time, the gods of the elves, orks, even death, were getting along. The mortals who survived the end times went on to create whole new civilizations under the care of their respective gods, and thousands of years pass without major conflict. Man, elf, and dwarf, all resided in cooperation and peace in Azyr, making Sigmar a god of many species and not just men.
Then, the Chaos gods noticed the mortal realms, and practically overnight they ruin it. Chaos, presumably far more powerful in worlds literally made of magic and with very loosely defined laws of physics, easily acquire nigh infinite new followers and proceed to crush every single realm one by one. Sigmar's alliance falls apart as gods begin to squabble amongst themselves.
Sigmar, desperate and without allies, simply returned to Azyr, and locks all of the realm gates that connected the realms, leaving the realms to the predations of chaos for millennia.
Sigmar knows that, for all his power, he cannot fight Chaos and win. Instead, he works with the artisans and demi-gods of Azyr to create an army of mortals, who in turn he splits his own power between, making them (relatively) immortal.
As the story begins, this army of "Stormcast" are returning to the now post-apocalyptic mortal realms to take them back from Chaos. Of equal importance, however, is the task of venturing to the realms of other gods, and trying to reforge the long lost alliance, as even the Stormcast can never win the war against Chaos by themselves.
And, that's about it - the setting essentially has everyone vrs. Chaos. But, in turn, Chaos don't like one another very much, and the non-Chaos races have a lot of rivalries. So, all of the races have reasons to fight one another.
If you'd like more specific details on a part of the setting, feel free to ask.
KiloFiX wrote: Which are the post-apoc mortal realms and which are the realms of the gods?
Like the Realm of Fire, Realm of Life, etc. - are these the former or latter?
They are one and the same, in that the gods live in the same realm as the mortals, and in many instances live alongside them.
The realms themselves appear to be large, and are populated by all manner of creatures, not just the most thematically obvious. One example is the city of Helstone, located in Shyish, the realm of death. Before Chaos wrecked it, Helstone was a thriving city of living mortal beings, including millions of humans. Legend has it that Nagash once appeared at the city's gates, and the city responded by immediately seeking peace with the god of the dead. Nagash accepted, and the living thrived. So, there's more to the realm of death than just death, and more to the realm of beasts than just Orcs, Ogres, and Beastmen, and so on.
Beyond that, the realms themselves obey no real-world logic in their construction. Maps depict land masses floating in a vaguely defined void, and feature concepts like a molten metal river, which is kept liquid by the breath of a sleeping star dragon, or a flying island chained to the sun, which is in fact itself a "god beast" and not a sun at all.
This is, I believe, the greatest strength and weakness of the AOS background world. The game creators are really free to create fantastical, imaginative settings unlike anything you've seen in any other war-game. But, the locations are so alien and ill-defined that it can be very hard to be concerned about them. Whole empires can burn and be rebuilt in a paragraph, so its hard to worry that Chaos could "win." Hopefully, as time will go on, we'll see real risk to locations like Azyr, or see realms actually retaken from Chaos, to give the impression that progress is being made, and that the realms aren't merely a playground for the warring factions.
I do like the idea of the Stormcast fighting through an apocalyptic world, seeing ruins and deformed areas from Chaos' touch. A few other things I'm curious about are: 1) What happened to Archaon? 2) What exactly is Nagash's plan?
Irishpeacockz-Blackjack needs a pay raise for being the welcomer to the crusade
Palleus-Write a school essay about Kroot! Pride. Prejudice. And Cannibalsim.
2BlackJack1 wrote: I do like the idea of the Stormcast fighting through an apocalyptic world, seeing ruins and deformed areas from Chaos' touch. A few other things I'm curious about are: 1) What happened to Archaon? 2) What exactly is Nagash's plan?
The post-apocalyptic realms provide the Stormcast characters with one of their most distinctive plot hooks - the recruits Sigmar used were mortals from civilizations that fell to chaos while remaining faithful to him. As a result, they often return to ancient ruins that they vaguely remember as living places, from their lives long ago. It also means, since they're perspective is our perspective on the setting, that often they're as clueless as to who built this or that ancient holy ruin as we are.
As for Archaeon, he survived the End Times, and was named the Grand High Marshall of Chaos. The Gods of chaos rewarded him with a new steed, a three headed beast named Dhorgar. Note the lack of Slannesh - only those Chaos gods present donated a head to Dhorgar, and Slannesh is missing at present. Archaeon helped lead much of the Chaos invasion of the realms long ago, and in recent centuries it seems he deals mostly with rival chaos powers he doesn't care for. In particular, he's not fond of the Great Horned Rat joining the Chaos pantheon, and a group known as the Gaunt Summoners have actively worked against him. With word having reached Archaeon that the Stormcast are in the realms, Archaeon has become active and engaged again, knowing that the Realmgates must be open for the Stormcast to be pouring in, and that means he could at last take Azyr, and cast down Sigmar, effectively "ending" this second long phase in his life.
For Nagash, Nagash was happy to be lord of the undead in the realm of the dead. Archaeon and he fought in the age of Chaos, and although I'm not clear on the specifics, I know that it ended with Nagash essentially destroyed, Chaos victorious, and Sigmar running home to Azyr and locking the door behind him. Of course, nothing like Nagash can truely die, and he survived in a less physical form, harboring an equal hatred of Chaos, and the god who betrayed and abandoned him. In the audiobook series, Nagash speaks directly, describing how worms and spiders infest his bones, and he remains too weak to rise again. But, he also describes the realm of Shyish as his body, and explains that he perceives anything happening in his realm. He regards Sigmar as a barbarian, and his response to Stormcast emissaries seeking to gain an alliance was to slay them and eat their souls. Barring a miracle, Nagash is fighting for himself and his realm. Only hatred of Chaos united the Heavens with the realm of Death.
On nagash he does not devour their souls but he does want stormcast souls due to the fact that he feels sigmar has stolen souls that should belong to him. Do remeber that the men and women that make up the stormcast are supposed to be dead when they get owned on the battlefield. Yet because of the immortality granted by sigmar they don`t go to the underworld.
There is a saying in AOS the dead belong to nagash and sigmar is defieng that. So the reasons why a stormcats memories and personality get messed up each reforging is nagash trying to grasp at their souls as they go back to azyr/sigmar. Of course this is annoying nagash and sigmar antics in the past and old world is why he hates him
Think the info on Archaon is a little off too unless their is contradictory fluff out there which is entirely possible. During the age of Order the Chaos Gods could never quite get ahead of Sigmar and his alliance due to infighting. Archaon solved this but not without some opposition from the Chaos Gods. The heads of his steed come from three greater Daemons who they sent against him, all three wanted Archaon for their own and were unhappy with an 'undivided' guy representing Chaos. After this they accepted him as their best champion against Sigmar and he brought Chaos to the mortal realms in earnest, eventually forcing Sigmar to retreat back to Azyr. The Gaunt Summpners do work against Archaon at times (sneaky Tzeentch buggers) but they are also his servants, chosen by him. They are his spymasters and his recruiting agents for the Varanguard.
Currently Archaon has control of the 'Allpoints', an area with realmgates that lead to all eight realms so of huge strategical import.
He thinks that he has one of the godbeasts under his will which would be a game changer but unbeknownst to him the fyreslayers managed to force a rune into the beasts flesh before this occurred. How this will affect things we don't know yet.
He also ripped Vandus Hammerhand (one of the poster boys of the Stormcast Eternals) apart in personal combat and wiped out his entire army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/01 10:32:06
One of the more interesting parts, imo, is that its possible for followers of Chaos to be redeemed.
Torglug was a Plague Lord of considerable power and came very close to taking the Realm of Life for Nurgle. During the fight the Lord Celestant with the Ghal Maraz showed up. Just seeing him shook Torglugs faith in Nurgle. When he died Sigmar brought his soul up into Azyr. He is now Tonus the Redeemed and a Knight Vexilor.
Lots of people have wondered which of the Stormcast would be the first to fall to Chaos, but it was a Chaos Lord that fell to Sigmar first.
On that note it does sound like they are setting up for "Chaos Eternals" or similar. Which, if they do create such a thing, hopefully they fare better than their 40k brethren.
Now all we need is a Lord Celestant named Osiris...
Funnily enough an idea I had for a Stormcast color scheme was to paint them basically like one of the Traitor Legions in 40k, with a similar-but-not-the-same sounding name.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/01 12:57:00
Not having read all th fluff - just wanted to confirm some things:
1. There were humans, dwarves and elves that made it to Azyr but a large number of the same were also stuck on the other realms when Sigmar previously retreated to Azyr?
2. The only way from realm to realm is through the portals? Can Stormcast "lightning" themselves down wherever they want?
3. Are Godbeasts just some large entities within certain realms?
4. Did the Seraphon go to a place beyond the realms?
1. Yes, many races had to fend for themselves out in the mortal realms.
To most this meant destruction and enslavement while others were luckier because chaos turned upon itself allowing those hiding in the realms a reprieve.
This meant one of three things for them:
-hide in caves or the like and await the aid of allies. (Like the Candlemen who were human priests and fanatics that bided their time to attack Chaos and help Sigmar's forces)
-find and make allies to fight off chaos (as the Aelf knights of the Order Draconis did as they rode throughout their realms and fought side-by-side with humans, Duardin or other Aelves)
-make pacts or tributes to chaos and hope your settlement is spared.
There's also alot of mentions of lords and kings in fluff descriptions so there may be small kingdoms that survived as well.(the Fyreslayers are said to be a force any king would die for so employing such mercenary forces probably explains their survival.)
2.Yes and mostly yes. I'm not certain if they have limitations to their traveling by storm.
Some races get around this, though
3. I believe so. Haven't gotten the Godbeasts book so I couldn't say for certain but I believe there's only three.
4. Not certain about this one. Will edit in a response later when I learn more.
Do we know if the realms existed before/during the Warhammer world's timeline? Have the races we know always been there? Or were they introduced since the destruction of the Old World?
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
WayneTheGame wrote: On that note it does sound like they are setting up for "Chaos Eternals" or similar. Which, if they do create such a thing, hopefully they fare better than their 40k brethren.
Now all we need is a Lord Celestant named Osiris...
Funnily enough an idea I had for a Stormcast color scheme was to paint them basically like one of the Traitor Legions in 40k, with a similar-but-not-the-same sounding name.
Doubt it almost all stormcast said no or fought to the bitter end in the face of chaos if stormcast would fall to anyone it would be nagash since in the recent fluff stormcast are getting kinda scared of the after effects of the reforging hell vandus hammerhand was afraid of dying and losing the memories of his dead family.
Plus
[
Spoiler:
b]Nagash is in possession of a stormcast soul and he said that he will unravel all the secrets of sigmar from him and that he should not fear him and he is not a spider like he thinks he is. Plus he said it does not matter what name sigmar cloaked him with and through out that conversation I recall he calls him by his original name instead the one given to him by sigmar. [/b]
Plus the only reason why Tornus was redeemed was because of Ghal maraz hax it is said those slain by ghal maraz(Torglug got his head caved in) have their souls taken to be judged by sigmar so essentially sigmar stole Torglug from Nurgle.
As per the words of Ionus cryptborn(he is nagash closet worshipper) on their discussion about reforging effects.
Ionus:"Sigmar is defying death and all things will eventually die and Death takes part of us as payment for out "immortality" "
Vandus: No one can defy sigmar
Ionus: "Death can, and to Death all sigmar is, is but a petty thief and Death will have its way in the end."
It is revealed that nagash is grasping at their souls each time they die since "The dead belong to nagash".
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/05/04 03:08:22
The hardback books are your best option for macro of the setting, the BL novels are obviously a lot 'closer to the ground' but do throw up some great tidbits of what the realms were like in the Age of Myth, viewpoint of certain key characters, etc.
Eldarain wrote: Do we know if the realms existed before/during the Warhammer world's timeline? Have the races we know always been there? Or were they introduced since the destruction of the Old World?
The mortal realms were born after (and possibly from) the destruction of the old world, with each corresponding to one of the winds of magic.
Going to update this topic since I consider this to be general information I will spoiler tag in just in case.
Now on the fates on those that went to meet nagash.
Spoiler:
It seems that Ramus and a small group were the only ones that could be reforged(going by the events of the audio drama) In the new Fury of gork novel they note that majority of the stormcast souls that came back after being wrecked by nagash are too sundered to actually be reforged and Tarsim soul is missing I won't say who has it just in case people have to listened to the audio drama yet.
.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/09 01:02:34
Davor wrote: Sigmar is a coward and left all humanity to die. He couldn't win, so he tuck tailed and went home. Only after Chaos was spread thin did Sigmar come back and try to claim his "vengeance".
He is nothing but a Slave Master who takes people against their will only to serve his own will. He must be expunged and is a blight to humanity.
Well that is the way I see it, and I am sticking to my story.
This is a very interesting perspective on the situation. It begs the question, if you were in a submarine, would you close a bulkhead to stop a breach in the hull from drowning the entire ship, even if it meant killing off 90% of the ships population? This is assuming that it was a now or never. It seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, much like Sigmar's.
As for him hiding, you wouldn't shove your hand into a band-saw to stop it. It most likely wouldn't work, and you'd be out a hand. You would most likely use something sturdy enough to to stop it that would guarantee your objective, while also minimising risk. This is what Sigmar did. If he would have stayed to stop Chaos, yes, he would have won a few battles, but in the grand scheme of things he would fail no matter what he did, killing more of his own people because of a bad decision. Instead, he withdrew and waited till he had something sturdy to complete his objective.
mrstimpson wrote: This is a very interesting perspective on the situation. It begs the question, if you were in a submarine, would you close a bulkhead to stop a breach in the hull from drowning the entire ship, even if it meant killing off 90% of the ships population? This is assuming that it was a now or never. It seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, much like Sigmar's.
As for him hiding, you wouldn't shove your hand into a band-saw to stop it. It most likely wouldn't work, and you'd be out a hand. You would most likely use something sturdy enough to to stop it that would guarantee your objective, while also minimising risk. This is what Sigmar did. If he would have stayed to stop Chaos, yes, he would have won a few battles, but in the grand scheme of things he would fail no matter what he did, killing more of his own people because of a bad decision. Instead, he withdrew and waited till he had something sturdy to complete his objective.
Sounds like something a meek follower of the coward-god would say! ALL HAIL TO CHAOS!
Davor wrote: Sigmar is a coward and left all humanity to die. He couldn't win, so he tuck tailed and went home. Only after Chaos was spread thin did Sigmar come back and try to claim his "vengeance".
He is nothing but a Slave Master who takes people against their will only to serve his own will. He must be expunged and is a blight to humanity.
Well that is the way I see it, and I am sticking to my story.
This is a very interesting perspective on the situation. It begs the question, if you were in a submarine, would you close a bulkhead to stop a breach in the hull from drowning the entire ship, even if it meant killing off 90% of the ships population? This is assuming that it was a now or never. It seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, much like Sigmar's.
As for him hiding, you wouldn't shove your hand into a band-saw to stop it. It most likely wouldn't work, and you'd be out a hand. You would most likely use something sturdy enough to to stop it that would guarantee your objective, while also minimising risk. This is what Sigmar did. If he would have stayed to stop Chaos, yes, he would have won a few battles, but in the grand scheme of things he would fail no matter what he did, killing more of his own people because of a bad decision. Instead, he withdrew and waited till he had something sturdy to complete his objective.
Look at it is if he was suppose to be your saviour an you were left behind. Your family, friends, loved ones got tortured, raped and are dead now. You really going to care it was for the better good? No, your loved ones perished because of his cowardly acts and is drinking and eating fine foods because of the greater good? Now, he is the false God and must be smited from the Heavens.
Now I know what my Chasos factions history is now.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
I just finished "Legends of The Age of Sigmar: Skaven Pestilence" and I must say I'm surprised. While other books of the series were nothing I felt the need to write about, this one was both fun and interesting and I can definitely recommend it. 13 euro for the digital version is more than a fair price and having read it I wish I had the hardcover edition instead. So, onto the piece of lore I am about to share - not that much of a spoiler, but nonetheless I'm putting it in such a tag:
Concerning the Seraphon:
Spoiler:
The Slann have really ascended through the ages - once they were, mighty wizards, philosophers, seers and thinkers and now, while still being all of the above they have become something like an aspect of order (no surprise here) - the eternal antipodes of chaos. There is a scene where the lord celestant of the Astral templars sees one in it's "true form" (or maybe spirit form), one that was being mentioned in the entire novel as the eternal hunter of the Rat - the Great Serpent. In a spirit realm of a sort the slann starmaster takes the form of an enormous eternally coiling serpent, encompassing past, present and future - no wonder Dracothion took them in his house .
We all know that the seraphon are possibly the memories of the slann. The novel depicts them as such, but memories that have emerged in his dreams and that have taken certain aspects of his persona. They seem to retain their memories and essence in between engagements, while they spend their time in the calm of azyr (seems like nirvana or something, spending time in the storm for the stormcast or the time between reforging etc.). It is hard to say if the seraphon are star essence given form or essence of the original seraphon ascended into Azyr, but there is no doubt that they exist as a living being (without the need of sustenance) in their mortal forms. They believe themselves to be born of and to be living in the dream of the slann (and his dreams are very real, in the meaning of affecting the course of history as well as directly shaping reality). They even consider, and address the Stormcasts as "dreams of Sigmar". Given that stormacasts are Sigmar's ideal, might and plan for the realms made flesh, it is not too far fetched to say that the seraphon are as real as them in the mortal realms and are just manifested in a different way by the will of beings somewhat comparable to sigmar. In short, the seraphon are now born of the slann - they are the extension of his will as much as stormcasts are extension of Sigmar's one. They live and think while in their mortal forms and are no less real than anything that walks the realms. If you've played Final Fantasy X think of the relationship between fayth and aeons - Tidus was in fact a dream, but a very real one. As long as slann are the seraphon will be, much like daemons and their gods .
