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Phyrexia wrote:Hey look finecast Nagash is available for pre-order.

Don't see him :(

DarkStarSabre wrote:The newest of the three is the one with a skull and he's from a Warhammer Quest expansion iirc.

Wow you're right. I'm amazed to see that model survive into the modern day. I guess it really is cheaper to convert something over to Finecost rather than make a new model. Good thing they're passing those savings onto... themselves.

DarkStarSabre wrote:I'm somewhat amazed that they finecasted those ridiculously ancient Necromancers...

Your words... eat them.

Ok, I now play VC again.

Must... fight... temptation....

where are you Tau and Chaos!?

Are Cairn Wraiths still special or only heroes now?

Both, according to BramGaunt on warseer.

ok seriously not happy with what happened to my Varhulfs. No undead or vampire rules and they no longer cause terror!!! My favorite unit in the army just took a major hit. For what an initiative increase. So I strike at initiative 4 but no longer cause terror or am immune to psychology or am unbreakable, not to mention why would you take the vampire special rule and the undead special rule considering they are clearly both vampires and undead it states that in thier description. Why would they do this WHY!?!?!?

To sell more mini-varghulfs, of course...

Edit: I gotta step away from these threads, the GW hate is rubbing off on me . But, they do have a habit of nerfing decent units when new options come out... I have a feeling all my large monsters / rare selections for WoC will be obsolete (not that they're owning now or anything) when a new book hits.

Well the least they could have done is raise the leadership value what is the point now with a leadership of 4. It just frustrates me at least when they were immune to psychology and had unbreakable they were formidable now you can only take one and for what maybe one round of combat before you run away.

BlackRaven1987!! wrote:ok seriously not happy with what happened to my Varhulfs. No undead or vampire rules and they no longer cause terror!!! My favorite unit in the army just took a major hit. For what an initiative increase. So I strike at initiative 4 but no longer cause terror or am immune to psychology or am unbreakable, not to mention why would you take the vampire special rule and the undead special rule considering they are clearly both vampires and undead it states that in thier description. Why would they do this WHY!?!?!?

Wow...
Can you not at least wait for the freaking book before you proclaim the vargulf as crap?!

If you're going by the website updating for the units, have you ever thought that perhaps, just maybe they're not fully up to date yet?!
Vargulfs will still have all the basic Undead rules such as ItP, cause fear (who knows maybe still cause terror), unstable, etc... Besides, I seriously doubt that the vargulf will become worthless and it has been rumored already that he's still a vampire, we just don't know if he'll have the newest rules like 'the hunger' or such yet.

BlackRaven1987!! wrote:ok seriously not happy with what happened to my Varhulfs. No undead or vampire rules and they no longer cause terror!!! My favorite unit in the army just took a major hit. For what an initiative increase. So I strike at initiative 4 but no longer cause terror or am immune to psychology or am unbreakable, not to mention why would you take the vampire special rule and the undead special rule considering they are clearly both vampires and undead it states that in thier description. Why would they do this WHY!?!?!?

You are basing your nerdrage on the brief write-up on the website without seeing the actual rulebook?? It has already been said that in the White Dwarf articles they confirm the Varghulf still is a Vampire and Undead, so why not wait until you see the actual book instead of getting all worked up from the website synopsis which is notoriously wrong in many instances?

Experiment 626 wrote:

BlackRaven1987!! wrote:ok seriously not happy with what happened to my Varhulfs. No undead or vampire rules and they no longer cause terror!!! My favorite unit in the army just took a major hit. For what an initiative increase. So I strike at initiative 4 but no longer cause terror or am immune to psychology or am unbreakable, not to mention why would you take the vampire special rule and the undead special rule considering they are clearly both vampires and undead it states that in thier description. Why would they do this WHY!?!?!?

Wow...
Can you not at least wait for the freaking book before you proclaim the vargulf as crap?!

If you're going by the website updating for the units, have you ever thought that perhaps, just maybe they're not fully up to date yet?!
Vargulfs will still have all the basic Undead rules such as ItP, cause fear (who knows maybe still cause terror), unstable, etc... Besides, I seriously doubt that the vargulf will become worthless and it has been rumored already that he's still a vampire, we just don't know if he'll have the newest rules like 'the hunger' or such yet.

Maybe you are right and my anger is a bit premature I just really hope you are right, I would be highly upset if they lost all thier usefull rules, you have to admit that with what is on the website now they are not looking good.

I can't believe they finecast the bat swarms. So bad. Like a lot of the new stuff, though, and I wouldn't get too bound up on the Varghulf rules as posted on the GW website blub. Plenty of room for error/chance to leave something off.

Hmmm... I wonder if you could take Vargheists as Varghulfs...
That would save a ton of cash for Strigoi armies.

The official picture of the black knights makes them look pretty sweet. But for £8 more I can get 10 mantic revenant knights which also look pretty sweet and fit in with my other mantic undead. A conundrum!

Aside from that, I'm definitely picking up the Wight King, as he is sweet, and might get Kremmler out of nostalgia (one of the first battle reports I ever read included Kremmler).

My memory is a bit fuzzy on Kremmler but wow he looks pretty awesome for an old model

Hexwraiths have been 'confirmed' going by Warseer to be 1 attack per model. So now instead of being disturbingly OP, whineseer VC supporters have already writen the unit of as complete trash!
I'm definately going to try out a unit of 6 for starters deployed as a 3x2 block to save on deployment space, use a shorter vanguard move and then jet them off full speed turn 1! If it works out decently, I'll add a second unit 6 so I can have them plus some fell bats zipping about causing havoc among missile troops/war machine crews while inflicting some hurt to a couple units on the way. Sounds like fun to me!

As for the Vargulf rules on the GW site, has no one else spotted the dead giveaway that he doesn't cause fear or terror yet is still easily a 'monster' unit type? Since when has ANY monster at any time in fantasy never caused terror?!!
I'm calling definate BS on the website's profile/rules post because they're quite obviously missing at least one thing here.

-Loki- wrote:Personally, I'm trying very, very hard to not buy the old Lahmians because I really want them in finecast. I know when I do, the next month they'll get the finecast treatment which will make my conversion idea so much easier. But if I don't, they won't get done in finecast and I'll never buy them.

...And now they've been removed entirely.
Ouch.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Personally, I'm trying very, very hard to not buy the old Lahmians because I really want them in finecast. I know when I do, the next month they'll get the finecast treatment which will make my conversion idea so much easier. But if I don't, they won't get done in finecast and I'll never buy them.

...And now they've been removed entirely.
Ouch.

To ebay?

Old models are the best anyways. See, doesn't Nagash look so much better in finecast?!

Da Boss wrote:The official picture of the black knights makes them look pretty sweet. But for £8 more I can get 10 mantic revenant knights which also look pretty sweet and fit in with my other mantic undead. A conundrum!

Aside from that, I'm definitely picking up the Wight King, as he is sweet, and might get Kremmler out of nostalgia (one of the first battle reports I ever read included Kremmler).

As an oft supporter of 3rd party alternatives to GW, and a VC player, I must say that honestly the mantic revenant cavalry look like absolute garbage. The designs are uninspired, the detail looks soft, and the undead horses themselves look super weird with some parts randomly made of bone and some of flesh.

I do however fully support their skeletons. Pretty decent stuff on that front and at a good price. But for a larger model, a more elite model, one that you are actually going to look at.... I would never use the mantic cavalry over the GW.

they are actually cheaper thanI thought they would be (in $AU)

Coven throne = $96, I rhough it would AT LEAST cost as much as a land raider (roughly $110)
Wight King, only $22 (thought it would be $28)
Same with the Failcast Isabella, only $26 (I thought it would be at least $30)

Same with thae black knights/hexwraiths, only $50! (thought at least $58)

Of course, the Army book is way more than I thought, same with the varghiests/crypt horrors

Phyrexia wrote:Old models are the best anyways. See, doesn't Nagash look so much better in finecast?!

Yeah he certainly does, at least then he would if he was for sale as a new finecast model. Come on GW you could "resurrect" Nagash couldn't you?

A new sculpt, some new powerful but non game breaking rules. Eh?

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Wight King, only $22 (thought it would be $28)

Considering it's a single frame plastic, no one should have expect it to exceed $22au. All of the single frame plastics are the same price.

ph34r wrote:

Da Boss wrote:The official picture of the black knights makes them look pretty sweet. But for £8 more I can get 10 mantic revenant knights which also look pretty sweet and fit in with my other mantic undead. A conundrum!

Aside from that, I'm definitely picking up the Wight King, as he is sweet, and might get Kremmler out of nostalgia (one of the first battle reports I ever read included Kremmler).

As an oft supporter of 3rd party alternatives to GW, and a VC player, I must say that honestly the mantic revenant cavalry look like absolute garbage. The designs are uninspired, the detail looks soft, and the undead horses themselves look super weird with some parts randomly made of bone and some of flesh.

I do however fully support their skeletons. Pretty decent stuff on that front and at a good price. But for a larger model, a more elite model, one that you are actually going to look at.... I would never use the mantic cavalry over the GW.

So, basically...

Go Mantic for the core (Zombies, Ghouls, Skeletons) and GW for everything else.

To be honest you'll save money that way. (20 skeletons for £13.99 or 10 for £15.50....hmmm....)

I can't decide if I want to use the new Wight king or Krell as a converted BSB. I can't see much use for a non BSB Wight King, and special characters aren't usually useful or allowed.

It is a shame that GW pulled ALL of the old dual pack vampires as I was going to buy them so I had one of each option. Thank God for chaosorc having old stock.

-Loki- wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Wight King, only $22 (thought it would be $28)

Considering it's a single frame plastic, no one should have expect it to exceed $22au. All of the single frame plastics are the same price.

remember, we're talking about GW here, they'd up the prices to see if they would be able to squeeze more money out of us

Matt.Kingsley wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Wight King, only $22 (thought it would be $28)

Considering it's a single frame plastic, no one should have expect it to exceed $22au. All of the single frame plastics are the same price.

remember, we're talking about GW here, they'd up the prices to see if they would be able to squeeze more money out of us

Except outside of price rise periods, they don't do that.

All previous plastic fantasy characters have been $22au. There was no reason at all to assume a higher price for the Wight King.

Aerethan wrote:I can't decide if I want to use the new Wight king or Krell as a converted BSB. I can't see much use for a non BSB Wight King, and special characters aren't usually useful or allowed.

It is a shame that GW pulled ALL of the old dual pack vampires as I was going to buy them so I had one of each option. Thank God for chaosorc having old stock.

They were quite a deal as well the old metal dual kits, just like the Bretonnian Damsel kit (we can probably kiss that goodbye unless it becomes a plastic).

It's disappointing they only have one mounted vampire now (discounting characters because this is an obvious ploy to sell more Mannfred). You'd have to get a Blood Knight now to represent a mounted vampire with lance (and they are still trying to hock the failcast version at a price which makes the models worth more than their weight in silver)

Black Knights are the only real redeemable feature of this release. I'd really like to get a Mortis Engine and convert it to a necromancer/vampire playing the organ (phantom of the opera style) however that is going to require some major conversion and I'd have to find some way to replace that god awful, too-busy ethereal steed/skeletal horde base.