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2014/08/27 15:51:29
Subject: Shadows of Brimstone (Warhammer Quest like game with a Wild West v Cthulthu Mythos Setting) - KS
Look, I've been pretty upbeat and understanding about this.
But frankly, if they want me to remotely believe that they're going to start shipping anytime soon, they need to start acting like it. Which means asking for our information with the survey.
At this point I've got a hunch that whomever is working furiously on the pledge manager keeps saying "it's almost ready guys! Just one more day, maybe two!" and has been for the last week or month.
They need to cut the bull and either act like they're about to start shipping, or admit that something has gone wrong (container stuck in customs like Palladium's was, accident on the highway/rail that has things tied up for another week or two, box was eaten by a Kaiju, etc).
I mean, I'm not mad per se, just frustrated/baffled how fething long one pledge manager can take. Waiting on the survey until they were absolutely ready makes sense; they can only send it once, so waiting until they're about to start shipping minimizes the risk of packages being sent to the wrong addresses due to people moving or other reasons, but they're supposed to be starting ASAP, so make with the addressening, or cop to what's wrong.
2014/09/01 02:30:51
Subject: Shadows of Brimstone (Warhammer Quest like game with a Wild West v Cthulthu Mythos Setting) - KS
I have to say that between this, Robotech, and Cthulhu Wars, I've gotten seriously disillusioned with gaming kickstarters.
I think All Quiet was the only one that wasn't a huge cluster, and even that one was late about six months for the first wave and had piss-poor communications.
The way some of these places act it's like they get charged for every update they post.
2014/09/02 20:11:23
Subject: Shadows of Brimstone (Warhammer Quest like game with a Wild West v Cthulthu Mythos Setting) - KS
Yeah, between that and being rather short on cash due to some bullgak earlier this year, it's probably going to take quite a bit to get me to bite hard on any others for a while.
Through the Breach finally delivering was nice, year late that it was (well, hopefully the hardcover they still owe half of the backers doesn't take another 6 months), but Robotech has definitely soured me, and it's making me a little antsy here.
That said, I'll keep giving Dwarven Forge money no problem. Those guys make an amazing product, and seem to be able to hold to a timetable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/02 20:11:39
2014/09/02 20:16:38
Subject: Shadows of Brimstone (Warhammer Quest like game with a Wild West v Cthulthu Mythos Setting) - KS
Forar wrote: Yeah, between that and being rather short on cash due to some bullgak earlier this year, it's probably going to take quite a bit to get me to bite hard on any others for a while.
Through the Breach finally delivering was nice, year late that it was (well, hopefully the hardcover they still owe half of the backers doesn't take another 6 months), but Robotech has definitely soured me, and it's making me a little antsy here..
Gawd, I forgot about TTB. The managed to stretch that one out long enough that by the time they delivered I no longer gave my damn. On the positive side the Ebaying is going well and it looks like I'll break out ahead of even even before the hardcovers arrive. So, either free hardcovers or some profit there.
Oh, and CoC 7th edition...so so far from reality....please, someone supply ETAs that are somewhat remotely possible...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: I don't know why, but...I'm surprised that we haven't gotten an update on this one yet today.
Fairly ballsy for a company sitting on $1.3M of backers funds.
Yes, the Gen Con excuse has run dry for everyone about a week ago.
It's like there's some sort of solidarity movement -'all these companies determined to try to make Palladium Books look slightly less derptarded. It won't work, guys, it makes you look worse, not them look better.
Probably the only KS that I've dealt with so far that I would do repeat business with without question will be when SJG does Car Wars. Unlike all these other KS, at no point did I feel like I was being lied to, or just generally screwed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/02 21:44:19
2014/09/02 22:10:30
Subject: Shadows of Brimstone (Warhammer Quest like game with a Wild West v Cthulthu Mythos Setting) - KS
Merijeek wrote: I have to say that between this, Robotech, and Cthulhu Wars, I've gotten seriously disillusioned with gaming kickstarters.
Strange. I thought CW did a good job of keeping in touch with the backers. What problems did you have with it? What requirements do you have for a KS and what KS projects have fulfilled them? TIA.
I do have a guideline (which I break often) of not backing the first KS of a creator. Despite using Panda Manufacturing, CW made the mistake of actually believing what the manufacturer said. Rookies!
As for RPGs, I hear more of delays than successes. I guess that's not surprising, since the barrier to entry to become an RPG company is much lower -- if you put out a PDF on DriveThruRPG, you're an RPG company. The CoC campaign had far more working parts from other companies compared to even the largest miniature KS. (The Horror mini's are *nice* though!) Since I'm interested in a good read more than a fancy cover, I just stick to PDF from DriveThruRPG, which I don't have to wait a year for. But, if anyone has an RPGKS post-mortem of a successful RPGKS, please let me know!
Anyway, Shadows is at least hitting the (online) stores. I didn't back but am following the GameZone, ADW, and Palladium KS. Sheeeeeeesh.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/02 22:12:55
Merijeek wrote: I have to say that between this, Robotech, and Cthulhu Wars, I've gotten seriously disillusioned with gaming kickstarters.
Strange. I thought CW did a good job of keeping in touch with the backers. What problems did you have with it? What requirements do you have for a KS and what KS projects have fulfilled them? TIA.
Honestly, I agree that CW has done a good job on communication. So they get good marks on that and as a matter of fact, that combined with the general quality of everything I actually bumped myself to a top tier pledge at the very end of the reopened pledge period. Don't tell my wife.
However, when you hit a two stage delivery situation, you've seriously screwed up. Unless it was the pan from the beginning, which would indicate everything going according to plan, rather than patching to afterwards. So, there's a strike.
Then there's having two waves, and not even having the first (absolute minimum) wave out nine months (and counting) from their original ETA is something I consider another strike.
And for me it's not a matter of being late, it's a matter of "How the hell did you come up with a date that is so ridiculously detached from reality, and why would I expect your next one to be anything other than either lies or delusion?"
Plus, the last thing I've seen close to an ETA said September. And like every other KS, if that were going to happen, that means the boat would be loaded and steaming this way. Since it seems super likely that September is already impossible, that is the kind of thing that backers should be informed of. Of course it's NOWHERE near as bad as FFP pulling their drive-by "...shipping might last for three months kthxbai!!!"
TLDR version - So, CW has done a great job on communication. But I don't think they've done a good job of managing or meeting expectations.
2014/09/03 00:09:04
Subject: Shadows of Brimstone (Warhammer Quest like game with a Wild West v Cthulthu Mythos Setting) - KS
Wait -- what was the two-stage delivery system? Sorry, missed on that one in the updates.
No disagreements here. I think the first-timers are slowly learning that you need someone on site at these manufacturing plants to be on top of this, not that that's particularly possible. The culture and language barrier don't help, either. Myth had some sort of problems with their shipping, resulting in a delay of over a month. A dice KS was delayed a month because of manufacturer QC problems. Even though Reaper had a Bones line before its KS, a communication error resulted in one of the models being MUCH larger than intended (good news for the backers, at least!). I'm sure this happens all the time at retail, BUT we don't hand over our money to them until the product's at the stores.
ced1106 wrote: Wait -- what was the two-stage delivery system? Sorry, missed on that one in the updates.
In what has become basically standard at this point (yet strangely is always done like its a concession because of how much they love their backers) CW will be shipping the core sets (allegedly September at last update, but I'm fairly convinced that's an impossibility at this point) first an all the expansions and such...eventually.
They haven't even hazarded even the most WAG timeline on those. I'm betting Gen Con (naturally....) which will put actually finishing your totally-not-preorder right around 20 months late from the original ETA.
2014/09/03 01:42:52
Subject: Shadows of Brimstone (Warhammer Quest like game with a Wild West v Cthulthu Mythos Setting) - KS
Anyway, FFP posted a very brief message on facebook -
"An update will be coming in the next few days, but most of the team is recovering from sickness - between GenCon, PAX, and all of the traveling, a bug has spread through the Frog."
So hopefully we hear something soon..
2014/09/06 08:52:20
Subject: Shadows of Brimstone (Warhammer Quest like game with a Wild West v Cthulthu Mythos Setting) - KS
As for the price, that's to be expected too. Australia get rogered but good, when it comes to international shipping, customs, distributor fees, and other costs. I definitely think there's a "Screw you for living in Australia, and we don't" tax. That'd explain the significant discrepancy in GW costs. Back when the $AU was above parity on the $US, the base box set from GW Australia was more than 70% above what the same box was from GW US/UK. Just something we have to live with, or work around.
2014/09/06 14:59:27
Subject: Shadows of Brimstone (Warhammer Quest like game with a Wild West v Cthulthu Mythos Setting) - KS
Dont get me wrong, I was highlighting the price, the reason I put the 'coming soon' was to avoid confusion so people didnt think that they were actually advertising stock on hand
The price is the significant factor, even at the 'discounted' price of $120 the KS price is an awesome bargain
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/06 15:00:14
2014/09/07 01:19:20
Subject: Shadows of Brimstone (Warhammer Quest like game with a Wild West v Cthulthu Mythos Setting) - KS
Yeah, 'con crud' is totally a thing, and I can respect that.
But they really need to realize that updates don't have to be 4 pages long. They can totally reach out to us just to say "look, you haven't been forgotten, we know you're antsy about a few things, we'll be getting back to you soon when we can all keep solid food down again".
Just wrapped up a 4 day convention, and between long hours, hard work and yelling over a Starcraft 2 tournament that was happening 30 feet from the booth (which was awesome to watch, including getting a pic with a legend of professional SC2!), I wrapped up that con in rough shape. 36 hours of doing nothing but drinking warm liquids and staying off my feet only helped so much, and a week later I'm still recuperating, though it's mostly going away.
Anyway, 2 cons back to back, especially big ones like these, are quite an effort alright, but at the same time, it's not like they didn't know these were coming. It's unfortunate that they fell within the delivery window, but that's kind of how they planned it.
Oh well. Meh. Minor bits of ire vented, hopefully they can get back to us and let us know some rather important info that's outstanding.
- Do they actually have the first container in hand yet?
- When will the PM/Survey go out? Better yet, just send the damned thing, the running gag is wearing thin.
- What is going on with being able to upgrade a pledge? If $480 for a Mine Cart is still 'losing them money' (seriously? In punching plastic and cardboard?), surely some kind of reasonable compromise can be reached? $500? $525? I'm having a hard time believing the costs have shot up like 50% here. This one my buddy and I are very keen on, especially since we've offered them $600, essentially.
- What is going on with being able to add additional tiers? I'm not sweating this, but I know some people with friends looking to hop onboard. I think it's possible and even reasonable that if costs are really that tight, this option may have to be abandoned, but I can respect that even if it's not important to me, it's probably important to somebody.
2014/09/07 02:17:28
Subject: Shadows of Brimstone (Warhammer Quest like game with a Wild West v Cthulthu Mythos Setting) - KS
Milsims - like most Australian Retailers pulls their "RRP" out of their arseholes in order to make their online prices look more attractive. Go to a few different Aussie retailers and see the difference in "RRP" for Zombiecide. When I did that as a little research thingy last year, I found about a $50 variance in "AU RRP" on the base set alone...
When I did that as a little research thingy last year, I found about a $50 variance in "AU RRP" on the base set alone...
Sure, but Milsims are generally around the Aussie price point so if we say that the aussie price point is +/- 15% of Milsims $120 then the KS is still a pretty good deal.
