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Two quick questions, guys:

1) What do you think of Arco-flagellants and Death Cult Assassins? Is one better than the other? Are either of them any good?

2) If you're already taking a Priest, do you think it's worth giving him a Combi-Flamer?

Here is my current TAC list for critiques.

BN Detachment
Celestine
Lord Commissar
2x20 conscripts
5 BS, melta, melta, combi melta
Penitent Engine, 2x HF
5 dominion, 3x melta
Imagifer
Repressor, extra storm bolter

Super Heavy Auxiliary
Crusader, battle cannon, avenger cannon, stormspear pod

Spearhead
Canoness
2x8 Retributors, 4x HB
2x Exorcist

1959

IMO a Sisters army should have sisters, Sisters, Seraphim, and more Sisters, and be structured to generate as many Acts of Faith as possible.

With Imagifiers only giving their buff 50% of the time, you're better taking another squad of Sisters if the squad you intend on buffing with them is 80 points or less in the first place.

Sadly, for the Sisters of Battle, the most efficient way to run them is likely just Celestine and a single other token squad to make use of the bonus act of faith, mixed then amongst an army of more complete factions.

 vipoid wrote:
Two quick questions, guys:

1) What do you think of Arco-flagellants and Death Cult Assassins? Is one better than the other? Are either of them any good?

2) If you're already taking a Priest, do you think it's worth giving him a Combi-Flamer?

DCA are the more killy option, but pay for their killyness by being guardsman-level fragile. Arco-flagellants have a couple of neat features: 2 wounds, slightly cheaper, and Priests provide them +1d3 attacks instead of +1.

They both share the weakness that they're allergic to overwatch and are too fragile to reliably footslog up the table. So you're heavily incentivized to buy them a Rhino, which gets expensive quick - a full Arco-flaggelant squad with Sororitas Rhino and Priest clocks in at 245 points. That squad puts out a cool 27d3 S5 attacks with re-rollable 3s to hit, but for that price you could also field two 10-girl Sisters squads with upgrades. So it's a tough call.

I would lean toward the Arco-flagellants if only for the second wound, but I haven't been able to put either one on the table yet. Once I do I'll report back on how they fare.

Arcos over DCA.

 dracpanzer wrote:

 jake wrote:
A nice multi unit kit that's half Repentia and half something new would be cool too. I'm tired of Sisters being defined by the small number of models GW made for them. I want a full Dark Eldar style reboot, as unlikely as that is.

Half repentia, half ??? Female redemptionists? Not sure I could think up something along that line that they don't already have in one form or belongs to another army already.

Half anything, really (female redeptionists would be cool though). Sisters are so unit poor its ridiculous. Basic Space Marines have 69 different unit options Craftworld Eldar have over 40. Dark Eldar have 32. Necrons have 36 and Tau have 37. Sisters just have just 15, (Marines have more character options than that). I don't point this out to say that we need an equal number of units, just that there's lots of room for expansion. And I think Repentia are an obvious place to do it just because they're not power armored, models, so a duel kit could introduce a second non-power armored unit. We know from the fluff that not all exiled sisters join repentia battle units. It could be cool to see a new unit made up of Repentia that have decided to take on a different combat role in order to find salvation or serve the Emperor. Or maybe not Repentia at all. maybe just non-power armored Sisters.

Here's a few ideas. Some of these might not seem like they'd fit well as the other half of a Repentia kit, but honestly the Repentia models are awful and need a serious redesign. Imagine how much variety you could get from a different set of arms and heads.

- Repentia who move ahead of the main forces, acting as unofficial scouts and information gatherers, desperate to regain favor.

- Order Pranxilium Pilgrim Sisters that travel with other pilgrims, raising small groups of faithful militia.

- Order Madriga Sisters that act as a choir that provides strong buffing abilities.

- Order Vespila Sisters that specialize in death rituals and removing casualties from the battlefield.

- Order Pronatus Sisters that escort and guard holy relics and shrines through combat zones.

Any of these ideas could be expanded into an interesting and I'd hope that GW could come up with better ideas. Sisters are so stuck in their limited roles dictated by almost 20 years of unimaginative game design that it's hard to imagine them expanding beyond basic units with Bolters. But I really hope they will. Sisters need variety!

And I know that was all very wishlisty, which isn't what this thread is supposed to be about.

Can you guys start a wish-listing, speculation thread, please?

Agreed, even if they get trolled to oblivion, wish listing needs it's own thread.

 Fafnir wrote:
With Imagifiers only giving their buff 50% of the time, you're better taking another squad of Sisters if the squad you intend on buffing with them is 80 points or less in the first place.

You get the added benefit of having more bodies on the field, which the imagifier doesn't cover. But honestly I expect to use mine to support a large retributor unit, right next to Canoness Chainsaw.

 Fafnir wrote:
Sadly, for the Sisters of Battle, the most efficient way to run them is likely just Celestine and a single other token squad to make use of the bonus act of faith, mixed then amongst an army of more complete factions.

There is definitely a strong case for taking a small token force of Sisters in larger Imperium armies, and that's not a bad thing. As the codexes come out that may diminish as faction bonuses become more of a thing, but if Sororitas become established as a small part of many, many more armies their fortunes may improve in the future.

I'm wavering between taking two MSU battle sisters squads in repressors with doms in immolator, or the reverse.

KestrelM1 wrote:

 jake wrote:
They need a rules re-write.

They'd need to drop in cost by 5ppm before I'd even consider them. Their current cost is ridiculously high for T3 6++, Acts of Faith be darned. It's a shame, because they're great models.

I'd beg to differ. If there's one model group in our line that I don't like, it's Repentia. Maybe they could be re-done to look like the one of the cover of the Witch Hunters book, wearing a scroll of scripture, instead of, well, whatever you can call what they're wearing now.


Anyway, they're worth more than 5ppm, but probably no more than 7 or 8.

It seems to be the conclusion that Sisters are not a very competitive faction at the moment. That said, it also appears that our most competitive choices are plain Sisters due to their low cost, Dominions because of Vanguard, and Celestine. I am not including Repressors as it is a ForgeWorld unit. Is this correct?
Is there such a thing as an optimized all Sisters force?

 Captain Joystick wrote:
There is definitely a strong case for taking a small token force of Sisters in larger Imperium armies, and that's not a bad thing. As the codexes come out that may diminish as faction bonuses become more of a thing, but if Sororitas become established as a small part of many, many more armies their fortunes may improve in the future.

Or decline as the nerfhammer comes down hard on Celestine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davidgr33n wrote:
It seems to be the conclusion that Sisters are not a very competitive faction at the moment. That said, it also appears that our most competitive choices are plain Sisters due to their low cost, Dominions because of Vanguard, and Celestine. I am not including Repressors as it is a ForgeWorld unit. Is this correct?
Is there such a thing as an optimized all Sisters force?

I've been flagwaving for a footsloging all Sisters list, but other posters are arguing hard for four minimum-size Doms with four assault weapons and Sister Superior with a combi weapon, and then mount them doubles up in two armored transports. Either way, support them with Celestine, Seraphims, BSSs, and Rets with Imigifier & Cannoness support.

 vipoid wrote:
Two quick questions, guys:

1) What do you think of Arco-flagellants and Death Cult Assassins? Is one better than the other? Are either of them any good?

2) If you're already taking a Priest, do you think it's worth giving him a Combi-Flamer?

For 170pts (~240 with the mandatory rhino) you have either 9 arcos and a priest, or 10 death-cult. For a bit more points you swap the 10th DC for a priest.
Offensively they're both pretty good, and about the same effectiveness. Arcos will do better versus hordes, Death-cult will do better versus more armored targets.
However, defensively, arcos are way better because they have the same 5++, but 2W each.

To me, this defensive edge is what makes them better than death-cult because they will either survive longer or absorb more firepower before being killed. Plus I already have 20 meltas to deal with armored targets, so dealing with hordes is a lot more valued for my army.

Anyway, I cannot stress enough how good either of those two squads are. To me they're our second best unit after Saint Celestine. If you havent done so already, try them out. People always underlook them because they have dominions squads and Saint C in their face turn 1. So you simply advance the rhino, pop smokes and wait for a freaking devastating turn2 charge. Heck, sometimes they even can charge turn1 when the ennemy comes to you !

 RabbitMaster wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Two quick questions, guys:

1) What do you think of Arco-flagellants and Death Cult Assassins? Is one better than the other? Are either of them any good?

2) If you're already taking a Priest, do you think it's worth giving him a Combi-Flamer?

For 170pts (~240 with the mandatory rhino) you have either 9 arcos and a priest, or 10 death-cult. For a bit more points you swap the 10th DC for a priest.
Offensively they're both pretty good, and about the same effectiveness. Arcos will do better versus hordes, Death-cult will do better versus more armored targets.
However, defensively, arcos are way better because they have the same 5++, but 2W each.

To me, this defensive edge is what makes them better than death-cult because they will either survive longer or absorb more firepower before being killed. Plus I already have 20 meltas to deal with armored targets, so dealing with hordes is a lot more valued for my army.

Anyway, I cannot stress enough how good either of those two squads are. To me they're our second best unit after Saint Celestine. If you havent done so already, try them out. People always underlook them because they have dominions squads and Saint C in their face turn 1. So you simply advance the rhino, pop smokes and wait for a freaking devastating turn2 charge. Heck, sometimes they even can charge turn1 when the ennemy comes to you !

That's a great help, thank you.

phydaux wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
There is definitely a strong case for taking a small token force of Sisters in larger Imperium armies, and that's not a bad thing. As the codexes come out that may diminish as faction bonuses become more of a thing, but if Sororitas become established as a small part of many, many more armies their fortunes may improve in the future.

Or decline as the nerfhammer comes down hard on Celestine.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind Celestine geting nerfed a little (though I think some other stuff - especially the Canoness - would need to be improved at the same time).
- I don't think Celestine needs S7
- I think 5 attacks are sufficient
- 7 wounds is a bit excessive (6 might be more reasonable)
- Having 2 extra 2+/4+ 2-wound bodyguards and being able to resurrect one for free each turn is a bit much

I don't think St. Celestine needs to be a juggernaut of destruction. I'd rather she was cheaper, good in combat (better than a canoness but not on a similar level to a Greater Daemon) and more about her aura and extra faith.

But then, I'd also like it if she went back to her 5th edition version where she could revive multiple times per game.

The main thing though is that I don't want to feel guilty for bringing her.

 davidgr33n wrote:
It seems to be the conclusion that Sisters are not a very competitive faction at the moment. That said, it also appears that our most competitive choices are plain Sisters due to their low cost, Dominions because of Vanguard, and Celestine. I am not including Repressors as it is a ForgeWorld unit. Is this correct?
Is there such a thing as an optimized all Sisters force?

I think it's early on to say that.

I would say the winners are basically Dominions, Celestine and Retributors. Immolators with Flamer are also pretty solid, but totally over shadowed by Repressors for Doms. BSS are okay, but don't have a lot to recommend them other than cost.

 davidgr33n wrote:
It seems to be the conclusion that Sisters are not a very competitive faction at the moment. That said, it also appears that our most competitive choices are plain Sisters due to their low cost, Dominions because of Vanguard, and Celestine. I am not including Repressors as it is a ForgeWorld unit. Is this correct?
Is there such a thing as an optimized all Sisters force?

I think we're very competitive.

Dominions are amazing, and are strictly better than ordinary Battle Sisters. Even on foot for their base 10ppm, the Dominions offer a 100% improvement in alpha-strike capability, because they can Vanguard move and advance during the Vanguard move, then move 6", and be in Rapid-Fire range. And, of course, Dominions for 12ppm have straight Storm-Bolters with their scout move, which is basically twice the firepower and 2/3 the toughness of a Space Marine for 1 point less, with Scout thrown in to boot.

Repressors are pretty amazing, and the Immolator is pretty good, particularly for Dominions, since it gives them shelter and increases the range they can threaten with their Vanguard move.

Seraphim are good, but shouldn't be brought in massive numbers. A single squad pairs up well with Saint Celestine, more than that and they just become worse than Dominions unless you buy Imagifiers.

Retributors are pretty good at holding the rearguard. Since they're the same price as Battle Sisters, but get 4x Heavy Weapons that have the range to reach across the no-man's land, they're basically better than Battle Sisters for your rearguard.

Exorcists are strictly okay. Nothing to write home about. But they're not so bad as to be unfieldable, so there's that. Also, they and Penitent Engines are really the only thing we have effective against Necron vehicles, because of Quantum Shielding.



Outrider Detachment is your friend. I run a pure-sisters army, consisting almost entirely of Dominions, at League. Right now, I'm 3 wins for 3 games, we'll see if that changes tonight.

Waaaaait... we can advance during the Vanguard move?

Vanguard: Once both sides are deployed but before the first player takes their turn, this unit can move as if it were
their Movement phase. If both players have units that can do this, the player who is taking the first turn moves
their units first. If all of the models embarked on a transport vehicle have this ability, then the transport vehicle
can make the move instead.

Can the transports also vanguard + advance?

 deviantduck wrote:
Waaaaait... we can advance during the Vanguard move?

"move as if it were their movement phase"

Since it happens "before the first player takes their first turn", there's no reason not to, since they won't have a penalty when it comes around to be time to shoot.

Unless I missed something, at least.

Transports should be able to as well, but only get Vanguard if all the troops inside have Vanguard.

Yep, this is a known thing.

Neat. I've completely missed it if it was posted in here. I gotta get more games in soon.

 davidgr33n wrote:
It seems to be the conclusion that Sisters are not a very competitive faction at the moment. That said, it also appears that our most competitive choices are plain Sisters due to their low cost, Dominions because of Vanguard, and Celestine. I am not including Repressors as it is a ForgeWorld unit. Is this correct?
Is there such a thing as an optimized all Sisters force?

I simply don't agree with your first statement. I know Codexes may change things but while the index rules the day Sisters are surprisingly fiesty.

I can't think of a single reason to take basic Sisters over stormbolter Dominions. Take melta's as you like but the 3 points for scout and 4 shots at 12" is worth it every time. Outrider detachment or two and all you have to get over is the notion that you need a brigade for those extra CP's.

The hand flamer FAQ took the fun out of Seraphim spam, but Inferno pistols on a squad to keep your Murder Hobo company is well worth it.

Repressors are a Dominion's best friend. Buy them, build them, convert them. Bring them...

Indeed. At the moment there's no point in us trying to spam CPs, We need to hold 1 to reroll MI and 1+ to reroll AoF and that's it. The 4 minimum you get for bringing a spearhead/outrider is enough for the moment. If we get some cool strats in a codex release then that might change things, but for now trying to purposely bring more than 5 CPs is like giving you're self a handicap.

The occasional 2CP interrupt in the fight phase is pretty good with Celestine. Some people have yet to learn to resolve their fight in the right order
Joke aside having more CP is very nice, but since our troop choice is sub-optimal it is more efficient to have less CP but more doms/seras/exos/rets.

The basis sisters are not that bad (3 melta in a repressor is still terrifying even without vanguard). If troop choices end up being obsec again (like for the SM) or something like that, then we might see them back on the table. But right now there isn't enough incentive to play them over the more optimal doms/rets.

 dracpanzer wrote:

I can't think of a single reason to take basic Sisters over stormbolter Dominions.

One reason:
Brigades.
Basic sisters can still get 3 Storm Bolters, which isn't as good as 5, but if you want to leave them behind to camp objectives, it's not the worst thing in the world. Those extra CPs can be pretty great.

Drider wrote:
Indeed. At the moment there's no point in us trying to spam CPs, We need to hold 1 to reroll MI and 1+ to reroll AoF and that's it. The 4 minimum you get for bringing a spearhead/outrider is enough for the moment. If we get some cool strats in a codex release then that might change things, but for now trying to purposely bring more than 5 CPs is like giving you're self a handicap.

I have 1 for Celestine, 1 for seize the initiative, possibly 1 for selecting deployment patterns, and the rest for whatever else might need to happen.

4-5 is more than enough for pretty much any purpose, I think.



Anyone got any good ideas for fighting Necrons? Quantum Shielding blocks Meltaguns far too reliably, there's only one of Celestine, and I don't want to commit to having a ton of Exorcists and Penitent Engines just for one scenario in an all-comers list. Their tanks also pack quite a lot of firepower.

Only the obvious mass s5 ap-1 dakkadakkadakka.

The only plus side to the equation is that everything with Quantum shielding is t6 meaning that even bolters would wound on 5s.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

I can't think of a single reason to take basic Sisters over stormbolter Dominions.

One reason:
Brigades.
Basic sisters can still get 3 Storm Bolters, which isn't as good as 5, but if you want to leave them behind to camp objectives, it's not the worst thing in the world. Those extra CP's can be pretty great.

I can reliably field two outrider detachments, I would rather get the vanguard move just to get my repressors where they are going faster rather than saddle myself with regular battle sisters over taking Retributors to park with a Canoness for backfield support. I'm far more concerned with drops for first turn than I am with CP's.

The Vanguard move is essentially a free pregame Hand of the Emperor Act of Faith for EVERY unit of Dominions, that also confers on a Transport that can never usually peform an Act of Faith. Seriously seriously good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After many weeks of theorising and practice games, I've set the following 2k list in stone. It's take-all:

Outrider Detachment
Celestine + 1 Geminae
5 Doms w/ 5 Meltas
5 Doms w/ 5 Meltas
8 Seraphim w/ 4 Inferno Pistols and Plasma Pistol
Repressor w/ extra SB
Repressor w/ extra SB

Outrider Detachment
Canoness w/ Evisc + PP
5 Doms with 4 SB + CB
5 Doms w/ 4 SB
5 Doms w/ 4 SB

Exorcist
Immolator w/ IF

Vanguard Detachment
Canoness w/ Combi-Plas and Power Axe
Priest w/ BP and PA
5 Celestians with PP, PA and Heavy Flamer
2 Death Cult Assassins
Eversor Assassin

Ravenwing Dark Talon

Immolator w/ IF
Immolator w/ IF

6 CPs. 10 drops (Melta+SB double up in each Repressor, SB doms immo, Canoness+Celestians Immo, Canoness+Ministorum Immo). Capable of 119 RF bolter shots, 14 Melta (+D6 Exorcist), 9D6 Heavy Flamer, 5 Plasma, and Mortal Wounds from the Dark Talon rift cannon/stasis bomb.

Any thoughts/observations? I've considered running Arcos instead of DCA but with all the bolters I have more than enough volume of dice. Also I realise the Celestians are a jack-of-all-trades/master of none, but they are perhaps the only unit that can usefully benefit from both the Canoness and the Priest, and they help protect the expensive loadouts i've picked.

No Imagifiers or Rets - I found the buffed gunline to be reasonably effective but personally found it rather boring to play. When purging, I prefer getting up close and personal; this is what Sisters are all about to me. Reckless hate!

Why celestians?

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Anyone got any good ideas for fighting Necrons? Quantum Shielding blocks Meltaguns far too reliably, there's only one of Celestine, and I don't want to commit to having a ton of Exorcists and Penitent Engines just for one scenario in an all-comers list. Their tanks also pack quite a lot of firepower.

I'd like to second this question. I got beat last week by 3x20 Warriors, 2x Ghost Arks, 2x Crypteks, Overlord, Tomb Blades, Canoptek Wraiths, and Deathmarks. I managed to get one unit of Warriors and the Deathmarks off the table, but the double RP attempts kept his other units near full strength.

I'm thinking of adding a Vindicare to weaken his RP rolls and continuing to ignore the Ghost Arks because, as you said, they're so hard to bring down due to Quantum Shielding and mostly just make the Warriors invincible. Once the budget allows, I'm going to add a second unit of HB Rets. Is there something to be done with Doms crossing the table to engage in melee to cut down on the volume of gauss fire coming back the other way? They'd almost have to be full units to survive overwatch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

I can't think of a single reason to take basic Sisters over stormbolter Dominions.

One reason:
Brigades.
Basic sisters can still get 3 Storm Bolters, which isn't as good as 5, but if you want to leave them behind to camp objectives, it's not the worst thing in the world. Those extra CPs can be pretty great.

I'd agree it isn't necessary, but having 12 CP courtesy of a Brigade is kind of fun. I just burned through mine last weekend... seize roll, Exorcist d6 roll, melta rule d6 roll, armor saves to keep one last Sister in a squad on the table (forcing opponent to make another split fire gamble to remove her), plus keeping one for Celestine... 12 may have been excessive, but 4-6 might have seemed limiting.