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Rules question. When comparing Cult Leman Russ tanks with Astra Militarum Leman Russes, notice the wording of the 'emergency plasma vents' rule is completely different. For the AM Russ, when you roll a 1 to hit with a supercharged plasma cannon, the tank suffers a mortal wound for each 1 you rolled. Not the end of the world. But for the Cult Leman Russ, if you roll any 1's the tank takes 6 mortal wounds and cannot fire the plasma cannon for the rest of the battle! WTF!
Is this deliberately different, designed to reflect the fact the Cult Russes probably aren't as well maintained etc? Or, is it possible they'll FAQ the AM Russ so this rule is identical to the Cult Russ?
Marktoney wrote: Rules question. When comparing Cult Leman Russ tanks with Astra Militarum Leman Russes, notice the wording of the 'emergency plasma vents' rule is completely different. For the AM Russ, when you roll a 1 to hit with a supercharged plasma cannon, the tank suffers a mortal wound for each 1 you rolled. Not the end of the world. But for the Cult Leman Russ, if you roll any 1's the tank takes 6 mortal wounds and cannot fire the plasma cannon for the rest of the battle! WTF!
Is this deliberately different, designed to reflect the fact the Cult Russes probably aren't as well maintained etc? Or, is it possible they'll FAQ the AM Russ so this rule is identical to the Cult Russ?
It’s the older version of the rule from ththe index.
My guess is that they copy/pasted without checking.
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
I have been looking through the codex for over a week and finally made a list I want to try out. Albeit, it is not a dedicated GSC list but it should be fun and powerful;
The Idea is the TBC + Relic gives the Patriarch 3++ and cant be Overwatched. Bio Adaptation also grants me +1 A and S. Followed by Mental Onslaught and Mind Control.
The primus will have Alien Majesty to make his +1 to hit and re-rolling 1s to wound a 9" aura. Pretty good for the 3 units of acolytes.
Magus has single minded obession so if a see a knight I can pick it to re-roll all my wounds. I also get 2 units now I get re-rolling wounds on which is nice for an army thats 95% CC. Also has Mass Hypnosis and Might from Beyond.
All Acolyte units are 16 scrubs and 4 rock cutters. Between the Primus and Might from beyond. A single unit of these guys do a lot of damage. Will probably use Prefect Ambush Stratagem for 3Cp to gain an extra D6 movement for a better charge than hoping for a 9. I also have 4 chances of 1 shooting something in C after all my fighting and if it has lost enough wounds.
Kraken Nids go really well with cult ambushing GSC.
While I really wanted GSC Genestealers. because they are Elites and an extra 3ppm. I personally believe Nid Stealers are better point for point. However, I am happy to be proven wrong. Kraken stelars will have a reliable chance at getting into charges if my CAGSC units fail them.
Broodlord is mainly there to cast The Horror so that when I cast Mental Onslaught my opponent will have a -1 leadership giving me more reliability when rolling the d6 die. also CC backup if needed.
Malanthrope is to stay at the back with the Tyrannofexs to make them -1 to hit.
The Tyrannofex probably look weird in a list like this. But, 6-12 S10 -3 D6 shoots hitting on 4+ seems like a really god investment for 203ppm. I usually play Doomsday Ark when I play my Necrons which are D6 shots at S10 -5 D6 on 3+. I would happily give up 3+ Bs if it meant reliable shoots.
So, in yer opinions. How does this list look? I was thinking of adding a Swarmlord but not sure if it be a smart Idea tbh.
Odrankt wrote: I have been looking through the codex for over a week and finally made a list I want to try out. Albeit, it is not a dedicated GSC list but it should be fun and powerful;......
....Anyway to improve this list?
I think you can do better then picking tyrannofexes. Kraken genestealers are fast but still sitting ducks midfield and take the first round punishment before the acolytes drop in. You should get more small units to claim backfield objectives or pick that one objective on the enemies flank. Didn't count the points but I would go for the following list:
(Battalion)
HQ: Magus
HQ: Patriarch
TR: 20 acolytes + 6 Heavy rock cutters
TR: 20 acolytes
TR: 5 acolytes
(Vanguard detachment)
HQ: Primus
EL: 15 P genestealers
EL: 15 P genestealers
EL: clamavus
(Battalion)
HQ: Flying Hive tyrant (-1 to hit relic)
HQ: neurothrope
TR: rippers
TR: rippers
TR: rippers
EL: 6 x Hive guard
I prefere to drop the vanguard and get an iconward + 3 troops (neophytes or small units acolytes) for another battalion, if you can.
At least get one big unit acolytes to get the best out of 'perfect ambush'.
Clavamus gives an extra +1 charge.
Genestealers can drop in and benefit from HQ aura's.
With double shooting stratagem the Hive guard can bring in some hurt without showing themselves.
Odrankt wrote: I have been looking through the codex for over a week and finally made a list I want to try out. Albeit, it is not a dedicated GSC list but it should be fun and powerful;
So people worried about their acolytes being able to not get screened out to siberia on turn 2:
Bring rusted claw demo bikes. Use the jackal alphus and the lie in wait stratagem so they can come in 3" away and hit on a 2+ and wound T7 and below on a 2+ using the extra explosives and drive by demolitions stratagem.
This forces the opponent to screen more tightly or get owned by the demo charges. That in turn allows the meat of your army to get into the meat of their army more quickly/efficiently.
I'm working out fully mechanized cult list with lots of trucks and bikes, and wondering what all of your thoughts are including a Brood Brothers auxiliary support of a squadron of 2 Vulture Gunships with the twin punisher loadout. For 320pts, that would be 80 S5 shots for clearing out screens and chaff.
If my math is correct, thats approximately the same damage output as an equal number of buffed genestealers, only they don't have to weather overwatch and are a legitimate T1 threat.
At -1 to hit, it could force some tough target priority decisions for the opponent between those and my Rockgrinders charging up field.
A perfect ambush with Acolytes.
So i need to roll atleast 3 on a D6 to make hand flamers usable or should i keep that in reserve for the next round when enemies are closer?
Do i have a right feeling that Anointed throng is pretty useless, unless i make Abominant my warlord.
But, deliverance bloodsurge feels good to take for the stratagem (draw blood) making blob of Acolytes pretty much wounding on 2/3s.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 20:05:27
Okay question time, can you Summon turn 1, not in deployment? And then say Chuck lots of Demo charges on a SM character from 3 inchs away killing him before they get to activate?
Where is the verbiage that let you get around the Tactical Reserve Rule?
EnTyme wrote: RAW, yes. I wouldn't be surprised to see that stratagem get FAQ'd to require all three to be in the same detachment, but for now, that's legal.
I doubt that it will be changed. It is pretty difficult to get all 3 characters in the same detachment, as in, you need to take a battalion, a brigade, or supreme command. I don't think it was GW's intention to force players into those detachments.
Now they might force you to have the same creed for all 3 characters, but I still think that would be adding additional restrictions to an already heavily regulated character selection options.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reemule wrote: Okay question time, can you Summon turn 1, not in deployment? And then say Chuck lots of Demo charges on a SM character from 3 inchs away killing him before they get to activate?
Where is the verbiage that let you get around the Tactical Reserve Rule?
I am interested in seeing this as well. Folks in other forums seem to think that it is not a viable tactic.
Do Daemon players get to summon on turn 1? (Outside of their deployment zone.)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Araablane wrote: A perfect ambush with Acolytes.
So i need to roll atleast 3 on a D6 to make hand flamers usable or should i keep that in reserve for the next round when enemies are closer?
I believe that the consensus is to use "Lying in Wait" for the flamers, since it puts you 3" away, without the option to charge, (which could be hampered anyway, if you are successful with your hand flamers).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/02/22 01:49:29
Catalyst says that it can be cast on a friendly tyranid unit within 18". The GSC units have the Tyranid Faction key word. Can a Neurothrope cast on Acolytes? This came up in my game yesterday.
I don't think there is an exception that lets you summon outside of deployment zone on first turn. That leaves you restricted to units that you don't mind being in your deployment zone, so snipers, replacement screens, things like that.
Away from my books (yay job) so I can't double check the wording.
Speaking of summoning, are Magusus (Magusi?) summonable? If so, what spells do they know? Could they cast the turn they land? Can I use summoning to generate a 2nd or 3rd turn Magi that gets to be wherever on the board I need her with whatever spell I want? Cause 2 CP to shut down overwatch on a key target, or lock in some mortal wounds on weakened character, or mind control a unit on the other side of the board is good value for CP.
Masutaman wrote: Catalyst says that it can be cast on a friendly tyranid unit within 18". The GSC units have the Tyranid Faction key word. Can a Neurothrope cast on Acolytes? This came up in my game yesterday.
Masutaman wrote: Catalyst says that it can be cast on a friendly tyranid unit within 18". The GSC units have the Tyranid Faction key word. Can a Neurothrope cast on Acolytes? This came up in my game yesterday.
No. This is from the Tyranid's FAQ:
They can't make use of, but can Tyranids psychic target and have affect on them? Like CSM for instance, DG can't Warptime but can be provide by Sons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/22 06:04:14
Masutaman wrote: Catalyst says that it can be cast on a friendly tyranid unit within 18". The GSC units have the Tyranid Faction key word. Can a Neurothrope cast on Acolytes? This came up in my game yesterday.
No. This is from the Tyranid's FAQ:
Got to admit I read that as saying GSC units cannot use as in posses relics, cannot cast Nid powers themselves, cannot play a Nid Strategem. I did not read the FAQ to say that GSC units which have the Tyranid keyword can't benefit from powers/abilities etc which list the <tyranid> keyword. I assumed the FAQ's purpose was to make clear they are district armies and you can't just say your GSC has cult creed "kraken" and use Tyranid abilities/relics.
I was quite sure about my reading till I read in the Codex that Genestealers and a Patriach didn't benefit from the Cult ability which of course is mini-rage inducing, but as an old player who loves Genestealer models I've lost track of how many rule changes they've been put through which made them worse, so not getting the cult creed benefit is pretty small beer overall... and I must remain grateful for my 5++, thanks GW ;-)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/22 12:02:45
Masutaman wrote: Catalyst says that it can be cast on a friendly tyranid unit within 18". The GSC units have the Tyranid Faction key word. Can a Neurothrope cast on Acolytes? This came up in my game yesterday.
No. This is from the Tyranid's FAQ:
Got to admit I read that as saying GSC units cannot use as in posses relics, cannot cast Nid powers themselves, cannot play a Nid Strategem. I did not read the FAQ to say that GSC units which have the Tyranid keyword can't benefit from powers/abilities etc which list the <tyranid> keyword. I assumed the FAQ's purpose was to make clear they are district armies and you can't just say your GSC has cult creed "kraken" and use Tyranid abilities/relics.
I was quite sure about my reading till I read in the Codex that Genestealers and a Patriach didn't benefit from the Cult ability which of course is mini-rage inducing, but as an old player who loves Genestealer models I've lost track of how many rule changes they've been put through which made them worse, so not getting the cult creed benefit is pretty small beer overall... and I must remain grateful for my 5++, thanks GW ;-)
I totally agree, it almost seems like GW doesn't want you to use any Genestealers in a Genestealer Cult army...
So no Cult Creed for the Patriarch, but why not let the Patriach take a Hive Fleet "Tactic" then? Let them use the rules of their "parent" fleet.
"The only problem with your genepool is that there wasn't a lifeguard on duty to prevent you from swimming."
"You either die a Morty, or you live long enough to see yourself become a Rick."
luke1705 wrote: So people worried about their acolytes being able to not get screened out to siberia on turn 2:
Bring rusted claw demo bikes. Use the jackal alphus and the lie in wait stratagem so they can come in 3" away and hit on a 2+ and wound T7 and below on a 2+ using the extra explosives and drive by demolitions stratagem.
This forces the opponent to screen more tightly or get owned by the demo charges. That in turn allows the meat of your army to get into the meat of their army more quickly/efficiently.
How does your jackal alphus manage to be within range of them while they are 3" away from the enemy lines? If you're worried about screening, how are you getting models with 6" range guns in range on the top of turn 1 before you've managed to kill anything?
Are you saying the acolytes should wait until turn 3 to come in? If so, that is the problem in the first place - it'd be easy to clear the screen turn 2 by dropping a melee unit, charging, then turn 3 dropping your vehicle killing unit and charging. It's just such poor game tempo you've probably lost by that time anyway.
Nah, if you want a screen out of the way take an imperial guard spearhead with tank commander punishers, wyverns and brood brother mortar hwts to clear out chaff turn 1.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
luke1705 wrote: So people worried about their acolytes being able to not get screened out to siberia on turn 2:
Bring rusted claw demo bikes. Use the jackal alphus and the lie in wait stratagem so they can come in 3" away and hit on a 2+ and wound T7 and below on a 2+ using the extra explosives and drive by demolitions stratagem.
This forces the opponent to screen more tightly or get owned by the demo charges. That in turn allows the meat of your army to get into the meat of their army more quickly/efficiently.
How does your jackal alphus manage to be within range of them while they are 3" away from the enemy lines? If you're worried about screening, how are you getting models with 6" range guns in range on the top of turn 1 before you've managed to kill anything?
Are you saying the acolytes should wait until turn 3 to come in? If so, that is the problem in the first place - it'd be easy to clear the screen turn 2 by dropping a melee unit, charging, then turn 3 dropping your vehicle killing unit and charging. It's just such poor game tempo you've probably lost by that time anyway.
Nah, if you want a screen out of the way take an imperial guard spearhead with tank commander punishers, wyverns and brood brother mortar hwts to clear out chaff turn 1.
The Jackal's ability works with a 12" range with the bikes, so if the Jackal also appears via underground tunnels (i.e. 9" away from the enemy) there is is a reasonably chance it could get within 12" of the squad which is 3" or more from the enemy. Alternatively it's pretty quick and can just advance across the field (forefitting firing if needbe) to get in range. Of course in either set up the chances are very high the Jackal will get shot to bits immediately the opponent gets their turn.
Though I love the idea of popping up within 3" and throwing demo charges and the kitchen sink at someone, I know that the opponent knowing of this tactic will mean they place their bubble wrap accordingly. The bikes of course also have a reasonably (or not!) footprint on those bases.
Masutaman wrote: Catalyst says that it can be cast on a friendly tyranid unit within 18". The GSC units have the Tyranid Faction key word. Can a Neurothrope cast on Acolytes? This came up in my game yesterday.
No. This is from the Tyranid's FAQ:
Got to admit I read that as saying GSC units cannot use as in posses relics, cannot cast Nid powers themselves, cannot play a Nid Strategem. I did not read the FAQ to say that GSC units which have the Tyranid keyword can't benefit from powers/abilities etc which list the <tyranid> keyword. I assumed the FAQ's purpose was to make clear they are district armies and you can't just say your GSC has cult creed "kraken" and use Tyranid abilities/relics.
I was quite sure about my reading till I read in the Codex that Genestealers and a Patriach didn't benefit from the Cult ability which of course is mini-rage inducing, but as an old player who loves Genestealer models I've lost track of how many rule changes they've been put through which made them worse, so not getting the cult creed benefit is pretty small beer overall... and I must remain grateful for my 5++, thanks GW ;-)
I totally agree, it almost seems like GW doesn't want you to use any Genestealers in a Genestealer Cult army...
So no Cult Creed for the Patriarch, but why not let the Patriach take a Hive Fleet "Tactic" then? Let them use the rules of their "parent" fleet.
That's a very fair point....
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/02/22 15:00:28
The jackal Alphus buffs bike 12" and has a 14" base move. You would need to be a poor planner to not get her in range of some bikes.
As to summoning, yes you can do it turn 1. They are not set up in tactical reserve which is the rule that normally restricts units from deploying turn 1. The only stipulation is that in matched play you need to pay reinforcement points.
You don't see demon players use it often because in order to summon they need to inflict possible mortal wounds on the character doing the summoning, that character to cannot have moved that turn and also it has a 12" range from the summoner.
Those reasons make demon summoning much less viable and thus you don't see it done.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
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- 4k /// Cust - 3k 
