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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Seems obvious that it'll be the four from the campaigns they've previewed (the two out now + Eldar & Chaos), plus the basically confirmed on stream Marines.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Chopstick wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
Space marine would be an interesting choice, they were boring in the old game due to lack of unit choice.


Space marines in the old game (as is consistent with the fluff) were supposed to be used in conjunction with the Navy rather than by themselves.

It’s only recently GW released the interceptor variant of the Chibi-hawk.

In general GW’s aircraft I haven’t found to be overly aesthetically pleasing, especially for Marine aircraft. Forge world do a much better of translating what a 40k aircraft looks like in my brain to an actual model. I wonder if the FW design team has generally had folks who had a historic modelling background.


The Xiphon look fine, also much less bit compare to the Stormhawk.
Spoiler:


Xiphon looks okay, though I can't look at it without seeing what is basically an uglier rip off of the BSG Viper.

Also isn't it a 30k aircraft rather than 40k?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Darnok wrote:
Concerning Marines, by now they have from GW: Stormtalon Gunship, Stormhawk Interceptor, Stormraven Gunship, Nephilim Jetfighter (DA), Dark Talon (DA), Stormwolf (SW), Stormfang Gunship (SW), Corvus Blackstar (DW).
Argh, you're just reminding me how god awful GW are at coming up with Space Marine flyers, most of those are terrible and are the reason I'm not interested in Space Marines in AI. Where do we start, the Chibi-flyers or the shipping crate mixed with a Fox Terrier head? The Corvus is the only one that looks half decent. But still, if it gets the kids interested and keeps the game on the shelf, that's what we'll have to put up with.

Ignoring the chapter specific options, there's only 1 fighter/interceptor on the list and it's that hideous Chibi-hawk thingo. It's going to look out of scale compared to the beefy and decently realistic sized fighters other races use.

Most the Space Marine options are just ground support vehicles, which is essentially how Space Marines operated in the first AI game as well (Thunderhawks supported by Navy fighters).

But we'll see what GW do with it, I'm happy if Space Marines just stay as a ground support force, I preferred the old fluff where Space Marines weren't all encompassing military forces in their own right but rather relied on the rest of the Imperium.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/06 14:01:06


 
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

Interesting to skip Tau since they were such a big part of the Tactica Imperialis supplement for the original game.

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Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Argh, you're just reminding me how god awful GW are at coming up with Space Marine flyers, most of those are terrible and are the reason I'm not interested in Space Marines in AI. The Corvus is the only one that looks half decent. But still, if it gets the kids interested and keeps the game on the shelf, that's what we'll have to put up with.

It is such a shame that Corvus is DW only, it is easily the best of GW's plastic marine flyer designs.

But this game is set to 40K era, rather than HH like AT, right? Which would mean that we could see the Overlord flyer for marines. That would be interesting.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut







And I'm here hoping that it would be a new variant other than vigilant and colossus.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/06 15:38:37


 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Indomitable Hell Rider of Glorious Renown






102nd Expeditionary Fleet

Probably a different body sprue for those two then, as the Colossus and Vigilant both ditch the top mounted turret and have different undersides.

Spoiler:


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/06 16:35:42


Be ash and cinder forevermore!

V - 11 | T - 3 | 敗 - 40

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Made in nl
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

I was kinda hoping the new Vigilant will have a radar like this:
Spoiler:


Put in spoilers due to size.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/06 17:10:32


The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




Maybe they can take ordnance in this edition, both of them were cheap but extremely situational.

The most famous Vigilant is probably the one used by the commander on the Typha campaign, it got shot down (as expected) and he's killed.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






A sprue for the Vigilant might include replacement parts for the ventral and dorsal fuselage.
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

 Malika2 wrote:
I was kinda hoping the new Vigilant will have a radar like this:
Spoiler:


Put in spoilers due to size.


100% agreed!

I used a store bought hot wheels type plane with a dish like that for mine......



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Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





 Malika2 wrote:
I was kinda hoping the new Vigilant will have a radar like this:
Spoiler:


I think something like that is probable, since on the diagram most of the changes are on the bottom of the aircraft where it's all but impossible to see from a normal playing position.

   
Made in gb
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





Could replace the turret with a radome…

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





I can’t even remember, was the Vigilant in the original AI and what purpose did it serve in the game?
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I can’t even remember, was the Vigilant in the original AI and what purpose did it serve in the game?

Re roll reserve and initiative, and in campaign play, there's Target Recon mission in which one of your (secret) craft need to spend 8 turn on the table to win. In which the Vigilant only need to spend 6, while also being pretty obvious or some kind of mind game distraction to your opponent on which aircraft to take down.

And Colossus only carry a single bomb, you dropped it and you're done, it's now a flying brick just like the Vigilant

But both of them are pretty cheap.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Mr_Rose wrote:
Could replace the turret with a radome…


The marauder belly and turret on the back are separate pieces. Would be easy to have replacements for those two parts on an extra sprue to make other variants.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Just picked up my starter set. Plenty of empty space where they could have put more stuff in the box, lol, I think this is the first GW set I've bought that actually had bubble sheets to take up space so the contents didn't rattle round. If you want to buy 2 sets and are worried about the shelf space it's going to take up in your home, don't worry, you can easily squeeze the contents of 2 sets in to one box.

It's interesting that several of the sprues are mirrored versions of themselves. I thought it was the cost and time of making the mould that was high, but mirrored sprues seem to contradict that.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/07 06:50:40


 
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





LA

There is a fluff blurb in the rulebook that hints at necrons. In the same paragraph it also basically mentions imperium, orks, chaos, and tau. There is a curious indication that Necrons might actually make it into this edition instead of eldar. I'm not sure if anyone should read into it too much. But considering it more or less brings up five different factions I find it interesting.

 
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




AllSeeingSkink wrote:

It's interesting that several of the sprues are mirrored versions of themselves. I thought it was the cost and time of making the mould that was high, but mirrored sprues seem to contradict that.


They're in one piece, mean they're from the same mold, mirroing only cut down designing and mold making time on CAD program, The CNC still has to mill those part to make the mold, which is the most expensive part.

They can cut cost if they only make a single half sprue, but it will double their production time.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/07 07:24:49


 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Chopstick wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:

It's interesting that several of the sprues are mirrored versions of themselves. I thought it was the cost and time of making the mould that was high, but mirrored sprues seem to contradict that.


They're in one piece, mean they're from the same mold, mirroing only cut down designing and mold making time on CAD program, The CNC still has to mill those part to make the mold, which is the most expensive part.
Yeah that's what I mean, if the most expensive part is the machining then why did they do mirrored sprues. Why not make better use of the machining time to make unique parts instead of just mirroring the same parts?

Maybe the cost to GW of creating a plastic mould these days isn't as bad as it used to be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/07 07:35:18


 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Could replace the turret with a radome…


The marauder belly and turret on the back are separate pieces. Would be easy to have replacements for those two parts on an extra sprue to make other variants.

That’s what I’m saying. Replace the turret with a big radar and the bomb doors with the cameras from the current canon variant.
It’s sort of unfortunate that the top deck/turret ring is on the main sprue but then the Vigilant does need something more to distinguish it than the ventral sensor array.

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Yeah that's what I mean, if the most expensive part is the machining then why did they do mirrored sprues. Why not make better use of the machining time to make unique parts instead of just mirroring the same parts?

Maybe the cost to GW of creating a plastic mould these days isn't as bad as it used to be.



As far as all thing Imperium (and other civilized race) goes, these are all mass produced from the military, they should look identical, mirroring or not, mirroring save designing time, and cut down production time (and probably the electric bill too).

I think your idea is that Imperium is some kind of Ork/Chaos race where everything suppose to look unique? Ork aircrafts do have quite a few different piece, some pieces still look identical because they're matching pair or lazy designer.

And by chaos I mean the heavily mutated one, both Chaos and Orks can mass product stuffs to look indentical, it's just Ork-nature that they like to "personalized" them more, that made them unique amongs the race and is a joy to convert/kitbash

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/07 08:08:13


 
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:

It's interesting that several of the sprues are mirrored versions of themselves. I thought it was the cost and time of making the mould that was high, but mirrored sprues seem to contradict that.


They're in one piece, mean they're from the same mold, mirroing only cut down designing and mold making time on CAD program, The CNC still has to mill those part to make the mold, which is the most expensive part.
Yeah that's what I mean, if the most expensive part is the machining then why did they do mirrored sprues. Why not make better use of the machining time to make unique parts instead of just mirroring the same parts?

Maybe the cost to GW of creating a plastic mould these days isn't as bad as it used to be.


I mean, aircraft are generally pretty symmetrical and identical.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/07 07:54:13


 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Chopstick wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Yeah that's what I mean, if the most expensive part is the machining then why did they do mirrored sprues. Why not make better use of the machining time to make unique parts instead of just mirroring the same parts?

Maybe the cost to GW of creating a plastic mould these days isn't as bad as it used to be.



As far as all thing Imperium (and other civilized race) goes, these are all mass produced from the military, they should look identical, mirroring or not, mirroring save designing time, and cut down production time (and probably the electric bill too).

I think you want Imperium to be some kind of Ork/Chaos race? Because Ork do have quite a few different piece, some pieces still look identical because they're matching pair or lazy designer.


It was really just an observation, I didn't say I want one thing or another thing or anything, just noting that if they're willing to mirror sprues then it probably doesn't cost them a hell of a lot to actually make the sprues.

The ground support stuff is also one big mirrored sprue (twice the size of an aircraft sprue, but mirrored).

IF, I mean IF, it actually cost them a lot to machine a sprue I'd rather they make a dual kit of Lightning and Thunderbolt dual kit, and sell 2x Lightnings and 2x Thunderbolts in a kit. But if the cost of machining the sprue is negligible, the way they did it is fine... it just surprises me that it would be negligible.
   
Made in gb
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Yeah that's what I mean, if the most expensive part is the machining then why did they do mirrored sprues. Why not make better use of the machining time to make unique parts instead of just mirroring the same parts?

Maybe the cost to GW of creating a plastic mould these days isn't as bad as it used to be.



As far as all thing Imperium (and other civilized race) goes, these are all mass produced from the military, they should look identical, mirroring or not, mirroring save designing time, and cut down production time (and probably the electric bill too).

I think you want Imperium to be some kind of Ork/Chaos race? Because Ork do have quite a few different piece, some pieces still look identical because they're matching pair or lazy designer.


It was really just an observation, I didn't say I want one thing or another thing or anything, just noting that if they're willing to mirror sprues then it probably doesn't cost them a hell of a lot to actually make the sprues.

The ground support stuff is also one big mirrored sprue (twice the size of an aircraft sprue, but mirrored).

IF, I mean IF, it actually cost them a lot to machine a sprue I'd rather they make a dual kit of Lightning and Thunderbolt dual kit, and sell 2x Lightnings and 2x Thunderbolts in a kit. But if the cost of machining the sprue is negligible, the way they did it is fine... it just surprises me that it would be negligible.

They have a fixed set of sprue sizes they use (starting with the single-character mini sprues and doubling with each iteration). If a model won’t fit onto a single smaller sprue, they can’t just make a slightly bigger one, it has to be the next size up. So they find extra stuff to fill the space. In this case that was an extra copy of the aircraft because tessellation is weird like that.
Also, as someone else mentioned, two small sprues take twice as long to get to stock as one big one because a big machine takes the same amount of time to inject a big die as a little machine takes for a little die, but the little one has to do it twice as many times to get the same volume done. Unless they cut two dies to fit a big machine with packing but by then you might as well cut one big die.

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in gb
Council of 13 Runner Up






Built my first Thunderbolt Fighter.

Really nice kit! Only a couple of fiddly bits, and really quick to build.

Nice that the stems don’t sit too tightly in the bases, which should preserve them during transport.

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Got my boxes today - looks good

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Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Mr_Rose wrote:
They have a fixed set of sprue sizes they use (starting with the single-character mini sprues and doubling with each iteration). If a model won’t fit onto a single smaller sprue, they can’t just make a slightly bigger one, it has to be the next size up. So they find extra stuff to fill the space. In this case that was an extra copy of the aircraft because tessellation is weird like that.
Also, as someone else mentioned, two small sprues take twice as long to get to stock as one big one because a big machine takes the same amount of time to inject a big die as a little machine takes for a little die, but the little one has to do it twice as many times to get the same volume done. Unless they cut two dies to fit a big machine with packing but by then you might as well cut one big die.


Yeah I'm well aware of the balance of factors that might lead to a decision to make sprues that are mirrored.

I still just found it interesting because in the past the high cost of cutting a mould has been raised as a point that drives release cycles and choices that GW make, but it seems if they're willing to recut the same pieces on the 2nd half of a mould rather than using the real estate for something unique, maybe the cost of cutting the moulds isn't significant to GW these days.

The ground support sprue is a large one and they still decided to mirror it rather than making 2 duplicate aircraft sized sprues.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/07 12:03:51


 
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
They have a fixed set of sprue sizes they use (starting with the single-character mini sprues and doubling with each iteration). If a model won’t fit onto a single smaller sprue, they can’t just make a slightly bigger one, it has to be the next size up. So they find extra stuff to fill the space. In this case that was an extra copy of the aircraft because tessellation is weird like that.
Also, as someone else mentioned, two small sprues take twice as long to get to stock as one big one because a big machine takes the same amount of time to inject a big die as a little machine takes for a little die, but the little one has to do it twice as many times to get the same volume done. Unless they cut two dies to fit a big machine with packing but by then you might as well cut one big die.


Yeah I'm well aware of the balance of factors that might lead to a decision to make sprues that are mirrored.

I still just found it interesting because in the past the high cost of cutting a mould has been raised as a point that drives release cycles and choices that GW make, but it seems if they're willing to recut the same pieces on the 2nd half of a mould rather than using the real estate for something unique, maybe the cost of cutting the moulds isn't significant to GW these days.




I imagine the price is still significant. But these are aircraft, which are generally symmetrical and manufactured to pretty tight standards, there’s not much need to change components for the sake of it.
   
Made in au
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 ImAGeek wrote:
I imagine the price is still significant. But these are aircraft, which are generally symmetrical and manufactured to pretty tight standards, there’s not much need to change components for the sake of it.
Well if the price was significant they could rearrange the sprues (and I'm not saying I want them to do this, just saying if the sprue price was significant I imagine they would have done something like this).

1 x sprue, single Lightning and single Thunderbolt (kit comes with 2 of each).
1 x sprue, two Dakkajets and 1 x Fighta Bommer (kit comes with 4 and 2).
1 x sprue, Marauder, inclusive of parts needed to make either Destroyer or Bomber variants (two sprues in a kit)
1 x sprue with only 1 half of what's on the current ground support sprue (two sprues in a kit).

Not saying that's a desirable outcome for us gamers, but it'd reduce the mould machining time by a factor of two or more and you'd end up with much the same models on the shelf.

Again, it was just a casual observation that if mould machining costs are significant, GW did a very poor job of laying out the sprues to reduce their costs... my conclusion is mould machining cost probably isn't all that significant as I had previously thought.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, all that crap aside. Are folks trying to paint Thunderbolts before assembling them? The way the engines are hidden I'm mildly concerned about gluing them together before painting them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/07 14:37:46


 
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
I imagine the price is still significant. But these are aircraft, which are generally symmetrical and manufactured to pretty tight standards, there’s not much need to change components for the sake of it.
Well if the price was significant they could rearrange the sprues (and I'm not saying I want them to do this, just saying if the sprue price was significant I imagine they would have done something like this).

1 x sprue, single Lightning and single Thunderbolt (kit comes with 2 of each).
1 x sprue, two Dakkajets and 1 x Fighta Bommer (kit comes with 4 and 2).
1 x sprue, Marauder, inclusive of parts needed to make either Destroyer or Bomber variants (two sprues in a kit)
1 x sprue with only 1 half of what's on the current ground support sprue (two sprues in a kit).

Not saying that's a desirable outcome for us gamers, but it'd reduce the mould machining time by a factor of two or more and you'd end up with much the same models on the shelf.

Again, it was just a casual observation that if mould machining costs are significant, GW did a very poor job of laying out the sprues to reduce their costs... my conclusion is mould machining cost probably isn't all that significant as I had previously thought.




Tthe marauder could've been the same kit (since you have 0 ordnance in the destroyer one) but for the other GW almost never did 2 type of completely different unit in the same kits. And for good reason, not everyone will like both of those unit, so for you it's a great deal, but for someone else they're getting 2 lightning which they don't like and had no plan to use them.

For Ork it get even less ideal, the Ork aircraftt have different style for multiple components, redude it to 2 jet + fighta bommer, will turn the fighta bommer into mass produced fighta bommer and 1 less variant of dakka jets. Making the kit way worse than the current one.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/07 14:45:05


 
   
 
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