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Made in us
Raging Ravener





yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, it's only a reroll hits within 6", which is not going to impact more than a small fraction of that army at a time.


Thats true. But a long model with a 6 inch aura is more like an oblong 8 to 10 inch aura.

Plus the biker can keep up. And re roll her own cruddy sniper rifle. The other side of the coin is that you need all the vehicles to alpha strike targets. So target priorities matter and you can chain yourself to the biker and primus until the re rolling wounds targets are dead. Included a photo with a game against knights i played.
[Thumb - 20210328_140306.jpg]

   
Made in it
Dakka Veteran




dreadlybrew wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, it's only a reroll hits within 6", which is not going to impact more than a small fraction of that army at a time.


Thats true. But a long model with a 6 inch aura is more like an oblong 8 to 10 inch aura.

Plus the biker can keep up. And re roll her own cruddy sniper rifle. The other side of the coin is that you need all the vehicles to alpha strike targets. So target priorities matter and you can chain yourself to the biker and primus until the re rolling wounds targets are dead. Included a photo with a game against knights i played.


If you are using trucks and ridgerunners thi way with their mobility, you're playing an AM Armored Company without the armored part
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





And 55 12 inch flamers. Don't forget that part.
   
Made in it
Dakka Veteran




dreadlybrew wrote:
And 55 12 inch flamers. Don't forget that part.


Which is useless if they destroy the trucks first and easily kill 10 T3 5+ wounds afterwards.
HF are for Deepstriking Acolytes, Truck ones are melee only that use Run + Charge Stratagem + Psychic Power to have an enormous threat range

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/31 23:05:56


 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

That is true for most things.

But the hand flamer acolyte profile is unique. While T3 5+ sucks infantry do not want to eat 10 handflamer overwatch and they have a good offensive profile on a suksessfull charge.

Trucks are OK as well. Gets even better VS the new dark eldar with 2 autocannons on each.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in it
Dakka Veteran




 Niiai wrote:
That is true for most things.

But the hand flamer acolyte profile is unique. While T3 5+ sucks infantry do not want to eat 10 handflamer overwatch and they have a good offensive profile on a suksessfull charge.

Trucks are OK as well. Gets even better VS the new dark eldar with 2 autocannons on each.


HF Overwatch which is not possible from the truck itself since it's a stratagem and you can't use it from inside Transports
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





KurtAngle2 wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
That is true for most things.

But the hand flamer acolyte profile is unique. While T3 5+ sucks infantry do not want to eat 10 handflamer overwatch and they have a good offensive profile on a suksessfull charge.

Trucks are OK as well. Gets even better VS the new dark eldar with 2 autocannons on each.


HF Overwatch which is not possible from the truck itself since it's a stratagem and you can't use it from inside Transports
Its for when your out of the truck and getting charged.

If someone charges your trucks you don't really mind. He can't kill the unit inside, if he consolidates into you you get to attack for free, if he doesn't you get a guaranteed charge and either way he is getting flamed because pistols.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





The trucks are open topped. If I recall correctly if the truck is eligible to fire overwatch the occupants inside are as well. I havent done it yet mostly I use the hand flamers from inside the truck to clear infantry. I also charge trucks into targets to pull more movement for the guys inside. Tagging enemy units with trucks means they aren't shooting at my more important assets. This also means they are falling back qnd not shooting or they stay in combat and usually don't kill the truck. Staying in combat with a truck full of hand flamers means they are going to hand flame you.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






dreadlybrew wrote:
The trucks are open topped. If I recall correctly if the truck is eligible to fire overwatch the occupants inside are as well. I havent done it yet mostly I use the hand flamers from inside the truck to clear infantry. I also charge trucks into targets to pull more movement for the guys inside. Tagging enemy units with trucks means they aren't shooting at my more important assets. This also means they are falling back qnd not shooting or they stay in combat and usually don't kill the truck. Staying in combat with a truck full of hand flamers means they are going to hand flame you.


I don't think that's the case. The open topped rule states:

"In YOUR SHOOTING PHASE, units embarked within this transport can be selected to shoot with..." it says nothing at all about the enemy charge phase, and units firing from open topped transports are not usually able to use stratagems, only make use of rules that exist on the unit itself (datasheet or from army-wide rules).

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Yeah, if you can shoot overwatch from OT vehicles my Storm lord with 4 HB teams inside it just became incredibly OP.
   
Made in nz
Guardsman with Flashlight



New Zealand

Next weekend, I am playing in a one-day 1250 point tournament, using a cut down version of this flame- and laser-trucks idea. I have a couple each of the Ridgerunners and acolyte flame trucks, plus a neo laser and flamer squad in a third truck, a neo squad to sit at home with the magus and a couple of mortar squads. Min acolyte unit to drop for objectives and a Jackals squad to drive there, plus,a Keler and a sanctus to snipe characters. Warlord is a Jackal Alphus. I expect to get smashed, as I have only played one game of 9th. We shall see.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





Nice! If you go full into this at 1250 you are pretty close to unstoppable. Just because you can sit at i think 4 to 5 trucks full of flamers and cutters.

Choose your engagements with the lazer cars carefully. Make sure you put it on the board aggressively and scout move them into hiding if you dont go first. If you have a unit of 3 maximize their damage out put with overcharged capacitors and raking fire. This lets you splitfire to kill screens with the stubbers and still take down the primary target with the lasers.

Don't be afraid to shoot marine squads of 6+ with the laser car lasers. They are blast so you'll get 9 shots. Maximize that value!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/02 14:24:30


 
   
Made in nz
Guardsman with Flashlight



New Zealand

Well, I gave it a go, but to be honest I didn't lean into this nearly hard enough. I had just two ridge runners and 2 flame trucks with 6 acolytes each, because I wanted to get other things... Those other things were mostly just filler and the heavy lifting was done by the RRs and flame trucks. Even then I was frustrated by playing mostly marines with 3+ and 2+ saves, so 6D6 hand flamer hits rarely did more than a couple of wounds. Next time I will field all my RRs in a squad, and more trucks with more flamers. Otherwise I found I was leaving jobs half done.The small table sizes meant that maneuverability wasn't worth much, and everyone was on me so fast!
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





Yeah you need to go all in. Splashing an 80 point demo squad of bikers can be worth it. Those extra 4d6 flamers really change the math. Staying grouped and forcing your opponents to come into your death zone is key. Use the maneuverability to make that death zone where you want it.

The ridgerunners need to be in a squad together so you can use the over charged capacitors to wound tanks on 2s. Its an insane improvement.
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Ridgerunners needs the alpa jackal to give then +1 to hit and the over charge capacitors to have thet 3d3 3+, 2+ Ap3 D1d6.

The raking fire is also great on a group of 3. 3+/3+ often.

If you do not do that then do leman russes istead.

190 points for 12 T8 3+ save. 2d6 battlecannon shots, and 9 heavy bolter shots seems to me very comparable to the 2 or 3 ridgerunnergroups.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in it
Dakka Veteran




 Niiai wrote:
Ridgerunners needs the alpa jackal to give then +1 to hit and the over charge capacitors to have thet 3d3 3+, 2+ Ap3 D1d6.

The raking fire is also great on a group of 3. 3+/3+ often.

If you do not do that then do leman russes istead.

190 points for 12 T8 3+ save. 2d6 battlecannon shots, and 9 heavy bolter shots seems to me very comparable to the 2 or 3 ridgerunnergroups.


To anybody reading this thread to get advanced gameplay advices about GSC, for the love of God don't follow this advice unless you want to waste your money on units that aren't decent in AM let alone in GSC with 0 rules support.
Leman Russes are not comparable to Ridgerunners in any single case, they are worse in every possible aspect and offer nothing that GSC really wants/needs.

End of story
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





I was able to make a list with a little cult soup. Leman russes are neat but the lack of support means basically the only way I can stomach using them is a brood brothers spearhead with 2 tank commanders to give them orders and on sec. But even then.... I would rather have 3 to 9 ridgerunners for the chunk of points that spearhead would cost.
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

KurtAngle2 wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
Ridgerunners needs the alpa jackal to give then +1 to hit and the over charge capacitors to have thet 3d3 3+, 2+ Ap3 D1d6.

The raking fire is also great on a group of 3. 3+/3+ often.

If you do not do that then do leman russes istead.

190 points for 12 T8 3+ save. 2d6 battlecannon shots, and 9 heavy bolter shots seems to me very comparable to the 2 or 3 ridgerunnergroups.


To anybody reading this thread to get advanced gameplay advices about GSC, for the love of God don't follow this advice unless you want to waste your money on units that aren't decent in AM let alone in GSC with 0 rules support.
Leman Russes are not comparable to Ridgerunners in any single case, they are worse in every possible aspect and offer nothing that GSC really wants/needs.

End of story


I would not say that.

2 ridgerunners = 140 points
1 leman russ, battlecannon, hevay bolter = 150 points

2 ridgerunners = 16 wounds, T5, 4+ save. 6+ flare save, over 2 brackets.
1 leman russ = 12 wounds, T8, 3+ save, over 3 brackets.

2 ridgerunners = BS4+, 2d3 S9 AP3 D6 + 12 S4 AP0 D1
1 leman russ = BS4+, 2d6 S8 AP2 D3 + 3 S5 AP1 D2

So the leman russ is 10 points more. It has 4 less wounds.

It is much better at killing 2 wound space marines for it's points. It has a superior threath range. It is hardre to wound vs S3, S4, S5, S6, S7, S8 and S10 attacks. It is better against AP1 and AP2. It has a smaller footprint.

You can also use the model as an IG model that unlocks more options, like stratagems or BS3+. Neither of these options is very good, but they seem to be the best GSC has to offer in many senarioes. Of course the ridgerunner is much easier to make better by aditional points and CP usages. But if you are pinched on fast attack slots, and can not have multiple bikes snipers you could utelise the leman russ. Bottom line is that GSC are just above Tau on competetiveness.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/11 21:51:58


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in it
Dakka Veteran




 Niiai wrote:
KurtAngle2 wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
Ridgerunners needs the alpa jackal to give then +1 to hit and the over charge capacitors to have thet 3d3 3+, 2+ Ap3 D1d6.

The raking fire is also great on a group of 3. 3+/3+ often.

If you do not do that then do leman russes istead.

190 points for 12 T8 3+ save. 2d6 battlecannon shots, and 9 heavy bolter shots seems to me very comparable to the 2 or 3 ridgerunnergroups.


To anybody reading this thread to get advanced gameplay advices about GSC, for the love of God don't follow this advice unless you want to waste your money on units that aren't decent in AM let alone in GSC with 0 rules support.
Leman Russes are not comparable to Ridgerunners in any single case, they are worse in every possible aspect and offer nothing that GSC really wants/needs.

End of story


I would not say that.

2 ridgerunners = 140 points
1 leman russ, battlecannon, hevay bolter = 150 points

2 ridgerunners = 16 wounds, T5, 4+ save. 6+ flare save, over 2 brackets.
1 leman russ = 12 wounds, T8, 3+ save, over 3 brackets.

2 ridgerunners = BS4+, 2d3 S9 AP3 D6 + 12 S4 AP0 D1
1 leman russ = BS4+, 2d6 S8 AP2 D3 + 3 S5 AP1 D2

So the leman russ is 10 points more. It has 4 less wounds.

It is much better at killing 2 wound space marines for it's points. It has a superior threath range. It is hardre to wound vs S3, S4, S5, S6, S7, S8 and S10 attacks. It is better against AP1 and AP2. It has a smaller footprint.

You can also use the model as an IG model that unlocks more options, like stratagems or BS3+. Neither of these options is very good, but they seem to be the best GSC has to offer in many senarioes. Of course the ridgerunner is much easier to make better by aditional points and CP usages. But if you are pinched on fast attack slots, and can not have multiple bikes snipers you could utelise the leman russ. Bottom line is that GSC are just above Tau on competetiveness.



Except that 2 Ridgerunner kill more 2W AND 3W Marines statistically even when not using Stratagems or Alphus, can benefit from +1 BS, can use +1 to Wound on Lascannons and +1 To Hit/Wound on Stubbers and most of all do their damage whilst maintaing full effiency unless dead (Leman Russes are forced to move LESS than half and degrade to the point of 6+ BS)
I have absolutely no idea what kind of math you did but you're wrong again.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




It also ignores the wound benefits of having several multi-wound models in a unit. Even with perfect rolling, three lascannons cannot kill two ridgerunners.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/11 23:00:55


 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





Isn't a GSC leman russ 140 + 15 for the HB + 5 for the BC?
So total 160`?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in it
Dakka Veteran




Not Online!!! wrote:
Isn't a GSC leman russ 140 + 15 for the HB + 5 for the BC?
So total 160`?


Yep, it's even pricier than 2 Ridgerunners.
gak unit
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





KurtAngle2 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Isn't a GSC leman russ 140 + 15 for the HB + 5 for the BC?
So total 160`?


Yep, it's even pricier than 2 Ridgerunners.
gak unit


If we had other Cheap over T7 units it might be worth in a skew list, and it's cult ambush properties allow in the right list for some not to underestimate shenanigans, but indeed pts wise it's .... like most older MBT's ... gak.
Not that the rockgrinder variant looks much better on paper really. But then again i think that ridgerunners just profit far to much from not having a damage table...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





Thanks! I have 9 now. Im still working out thr fine details on their paint jobs but im having a lot of fun with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I love love love rock grinders. Pair them with a primus and they hit on 3s. They do need a re roll stratagem. I refuse to take anything other than the flamer version though. Its stupid strong against hordes and it hits planes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/12 16:46:10


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Has anybody had success using a primus to re-roll wounds with the fire trucks?
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





Yes in the sense that the trucks themselves benefit from the re rolls. So you get autocannon and stubber woun re rolls but the units inside do not. When they get out they can benefit from wound re rolls. I made a list and threw it in the list section which combines bladed cog fire trucks with a single minded obsession magus, and the hivecult hivelord primus in the laser car patrol.

Short answer you can re roll wounds with the flamers in the trucks, but you want the primus regardless.
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

We have a demo hand in the rumor engines. Here is hoping for a new codex at some point!

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Are there actual rumors, or is this just rumors about rumors?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




canonized wrote:
Are there actual rumors, or is this just rumors about rumors?


Not really, though GW's MO for 9th so far seems to be at least 1 new model per codex release so an obviously GSC rumor engine is a point to a codex in the near-ish future, though I don't know if I'd be counting on this year.
   
Made in nz
Guardsman with Flashlight



New Zealand

I would expect that we will be after every power armour codex, supplement, update and errata is released, and just before 10th changes the core rules again [if we are lucky].
   
 
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