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Well, there are those who do refer to me that way!

Massively excited for a new Warcry starter set, and I'm guessing that whatever "Command Legions" is it will fall under the 30K reveals. If its a new game - Epic, for arguements sake - then they'll just do a "and finally...".

I'm as excited as that time when Jenny served up the sandwiches, in Commando!

I was screaming with excitement at the thought of Epic making a return. However, the notion of it being HH makes it a lot less appealing to me. I understand why GW would make it HH only, but I think it's the wrong call. At this point, I'm hoping that it's just HH:Apocalypse so I can ignore it and not care about it.

Epic is dead. With how they've gutted the rules/points for 10th it's clear they don't care about the game side and only are interested in the spectacle of the miniature side.

And Epic's scale is just too small for them to make highly detailed miniatures that wouldn't better be represented in 28/32mm.

I hope we get some more hints for Epic at that "Not-Warhammer40k-Preview"....

SamusDrake wrote:
...and I'm guessing that whatever "Command Legions" is it will fall under the 30K reveals. If its a new game - Epic, for arguements sake - then they'll just do a "and finally...".

Yeah, I'm guessing this is how it will pan out. Another tiny tease, though I'm sure it will fuel another few weeks of debate

Too much time has passed from the initial teaser, I feel like they have to show us some specifics this time around.. Either we see new models, or at least we will get a clarification of what exactly Legiones Astartes will be

given by how much time passed between first teaser of TOW until something relevant was shown, just don't expect anything as it may be years away or released in 2 months

 kodos wrote:
given by how much time passed between first teaser of TOW until something relevant was shown, just don't expect anything as it may be years away or released in 2 months

TOW was different to any other release in that they announced it very early.
Rumours are saying that Legion Imperialis will release at the end of summer which would be end of August/start of September. The full reveal will probably be at Gencon so its not unlikely they at least show what it is at this reveal show

given they have an 8mm terrain range and the titans I suspect there isn't much to do for a 8mm Epic release for HH, and with the tooling etc in house its not a hard one to throw at the wall and see if it sticks

it will be a weird one though for "success criteria", it needs to sell, but it needs to not be seen as something people buy instead of 28mm but in addition to

 Stormonu wrote:
Epic is dead. With how they've gutted the rules/points for 10th it's clear they don't care about the game side and only are interested in the spectacle of the miniature side.

And Epic's scale is just too small for them to make highly detailed miniatures that wouldn't better be represented in 28/32mm.

I kinda disagree... infantry can be unassuming, but there's place for everything that comes from regular 40k and for a lot of things that are there but aren't really feasible at the scale. Yes, titans, but aircraft, big tanks, big monsters... IMHO they shine much more in Epic scale, and are easier to carry and store, to boot!

Also:




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leopard wrote:
given they have an 8mm terrain range and the titans I suspect there isn't much to do for a 8mm Epic release for HH, and with the tooling etc in house its not a hard one to throw at the wall and see if it sticks

it will be a weird one though for "success criteria", it needs to sell, but it needs to not be seen as something people buy instead of 28mm but in addition to

It's funny how "space marines would be 8mm high, at the scale" has morphed into "8mm scale" >_>

 Albertorius wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Epic is dead. With how they've gutted the rules/points for 10th it's clear they don't care about the game side and only are interested in the spectacle of the miniature side.

And Epic's scale is just too small for them to make highly detailed miniatures that wouldn't better be represented in 28/32mm.

I kinda disagree... infantry can be unassuming, but there's place for everything that comes from regular 40k and for a lot of things that are there but aren't really feasible at the scale. Yes, titans, but aircraft, big tanks, big monsters... IMHO they shine much more in Epic scale, and are easier to carry and store, to boot!

Also:

Spoiler:

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leopard wrote:
given they have an 8mm terrain range and the titans I suspect there isn't much to do for a 8mm Epic release for HH, and with the tooling etc in house its not a hard one to throw at the wall and see if it sticks

it will be a weird one though for "success criteria", it needs to sell, but it needs to not be seen as something people buy instead of 28mm but in addition to

It's funny how "space marines would be 8mm high, at the scale" has morphed into "8mm scale" >_>

Great paintjob and execution, but i just hate these Imperator Titans...

But i have to agree on your take on Infantry: there's threads in this very forum where you can see what current-day miniature technology and painting techniques can deliver in Epic scale, and it's just tremendous, to the point where you can clearly recognize different armour marks, see individual rounds in ammo feeds for larger weapons, and so on.

Just looking at that Imperator Titan; it would be a fantastic location for a Warhammer Metroidvania!

Tsagualsa - I get what you are saying, but there are different schools of thought on that one.
Stuff like the classic Epic and some proxies these days (Vanguard and Onslaught etc) are popular because they have just a little detail. This means a) you don't need a magnifying glass to paint the super detail b) they are mega fast to paint, usually just base coat, wash, a drybrush if you are feeling adventurous.

Some of the 3D prints I think go too far with having stuff like belt buckles and teeth on Orks. Yes it's incredible how they can fit the detail on, but you'll risk going blind painting it, it makes painting in volume a chore as you're basically doing tiny 40k minis, and then the funny thing is none of that detail is visible at arm's length on a tabletop and outside of a macro lense.

My personal take is, I am sure GW will be tempted with the crazy-detail route, but I hope they resist and keep some abstraction.

 Pacific wrote:
Tsagualsa - I get what you are saying, but there are different schools of thought on that one.
Stuff like the classic Epic and some proxies these days (Vanguard and Onslaught etc) are popular because they have just a little detail. This means a) you don't need a magnifying glass to paint the super detail b) they are mega fast to paint, usually just base coat, wash, a drybrush if you are feeling adventurous.

Some of the 3D prints I think go too far with having stuff like belt buckles and teeth on Orks. Yes it's incredible how they can fit the detail on, but you'll risk going blind painting it, it makes painting in volume a chore as you're basically doing tiny 40k minis, and then the funny thing is none of that detail is visible at arm's length on a tabletop and outside of a macro lense.

My personal take is, I am sure GW will be tempted with the crazy-detail route, but I hope they resist and keep some abstraction.

Unfortunately I don't think they will be able to resist. If the detail is not crazy then why not just 3d print them? Also have you seen titanicus the detail is crazy.

Boosykes wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Tsagualsa - I get what you are saying, but there are different schools of thought on that one.
Stuff like the classic Epic and some proxies these days (Vanguard and Onslaught etc) are popular because they have just a little detail. This means a) you don't need a magnifying glass to paint the super detail b) they are mega fast to paint, usually just base coat, wash, a drybrush if you are feeling adventurous.

Some of the 3D prints I think go too far with having stuff like belt buckles and teeth on Orks. Yes it's incredible how they can fit the detail on, but you'll risk going blind painting it, it makes painting in volume a chore as you're basically doing tiny 40k minis, and then the funny thing is none of that detail is visible at arm's length on a tabletop and outside of a macro lense.

My personal take is, I am sure GW will be tempted with the crazy-detail route, but I hope they resist and keep some abstraction.

Unfortunately I don't think they will be able to resist. If the detail is not crazy then why not just 3d print them? Also have you seen titanicus the detail is crazy.

You can print crazy detail no problem. More than you can do with a plastic mold, actually, if you want.

Thing is, then you have to... you know, paint it. And on infantry, over, and over, and over again, five times a base.



I assure you, the problem ain't printing them...

I just wish print lines weren't so pronounced at small scales.

AT level of detail would be ideal. I can't get over how nice those kits are.

artific3r wrote:
I just wish print lines weren't so pronounced at small scales.

AT level of detail would be ideal. I can't get over how nice those kits are.

They... aren't?



Honestly, the only print lines I can see (on the waaaaay zoomed in image, not to speak of in real life) are the ones on the base, which is printed, yeah, but separately on an fdm machine. The minis are resin printed at 20 microns per layer.

IME, small scales tend to show less layer lines.

Yeah no print lines with modern AA / high res printers (the lines as stated are only on the base - you don't have to print those with FDM.)

Frankly the Aeronautica kits won me over - even over the titans, they had SO much character and were a joy to build and paint. Stunning at this scale. Old Epic scale wasn't as attractive at all to me. This is the right balance.

The lines are pretty apparent on tanks.

Why is it whenever I become interested in a game system GW has to edition up?

Jeesh!

I'm mixed about this, if it turns out to have some credibility. On one hand having a new model line would be lovely, on the other I don't want GW to have an excuse to go after the creators who have been supplying the fanbase with excellent products.


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 Albertorius wrote:

artific3r wrote:

Stop that, you're making me want tiny Eldar!

"New Epic" could become their best Game, or their worst...

artific3r wrote:
The lines are pretty apparent on tanks.

It reall depends, IME. You have to find the right combination of angle, layer height, time and AA.

And one thing is what you can see in pics zoomed in to the wazoo and another, much different, what you can see with your own eyes on a mini xD.


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 Hairesy wrote:
Stop that, you're making me want tiny Eldar!

They can be not so tiny if you want!

Just a thought on why a focus on Horus Heresy vs 40k as a setting. GW has been working relatively recently on a large number of 30k Astartes vehicles in CAD to make the plastic versions of the 40k kits, while a large number of the core vehicles for xenos armies are far older or even possibly pre CAD, so would require a lot more work to make, while there is a process and experience from Titan8cus in how to modify full scale kits into mini versions.

The lines were definitely a thing at one time. But a few of the modern prints I've received are as smooth as anything, if they were primed you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and plastic.

It really depends on the model I suppose. Very detailed and/or organic shapes tend to do a better job hiding lines. Tanks, bases and other large flat surfaces, not so much.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Just a thought on why a focus on Horus Heresy vs 40k as a setting. GW has been working relatively recently on a large number of 30k Astartes vehicles in CAD to make the plastic versions of the 40k kits, while a large number of the core vehicles for xenos armies are far older or even possibly pre CAD, so would require a lot more work to make, while there is a process and experience from Titan8cus in how to modify full scale kits into mini versions.

Also HH 2.0 is only a year old at this point, they probably worked on the 32mm and 8mm versions at the same time which should be even faster than scaling them down afterwards.

 Pacific wrote:
The lines were definitely a thing at one time. But a few of the modern prints I've received are as smooth as anything, if they were primed you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and plastic.

Its a fact that layer lines are getting way better as 3d printers got better but at the same time its also dependent on the user. Is it possible to get no noticeable layer lines on prints at that size? Yes, for sure. Is it as easy as just throwing the file into the printer and hoping for the best. Not even close.

Personally I had a resin printer for while but I have limited time and even thought I know I could reach the results I wanted from the prints, at some point the time I would need to invest into 3d printing just cut to far into my actual hobby time, you know the part that's actually fun for me.
So even thought you can print all the models yourself and you can probably get results that will be on paar with what GW will offer, the time saved and ease of use is worth it for me to buy them instead. So I'm really happy we are getting Epic back even if you could just print the stuff yourself.

And just in case GW is going completely crazy with their prices, I can still use a printing service

In absolute honesty - every time I'm post processing resin prints I wish they were plastic models instead... and then every time I'm scraping plastic mold lines I wish they were prints instead

As for layer lines, this year's printer generation is pushing 20 micron pixels even on 10" build plates. That's not gonna be visible to the naked eye even before we add antialiasing.

But you might need a gaming rig PC to slice a Baneblade at 20 microns

 Stormonu wrote:
Epic is dead. With how they've gutted the rules/points for 10th it's clear they don't care about the game side and only are interested in the spectacle of the miniature side.

And Epic's scale is just too small for them to make highly detailed miniatures that wouldn't better be represented in 28/32mm.

Have'nt the increased size of the 40k game basically been a journey to playing the epic format at 28mm? Introduction of fliers, lords of war, twice as large armies as in 3rd edition, bigger footprints, and finally set unit sizes of 5 or 10...

 triplegrim wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Epic is dead. With how they've gutted the rules/points for 10th it's clear they don't care about the game side and only are interested in the spectacle of the miniature side.

And Epic's scale is just too small for them to make highly detailed miniatures that wouldn't better be represented in 28/32mm.

Have'nt the increased size of the 40k game basically been a journey to playing the epic format at 28mm? Introduction of fliers, lords of war, twice as large armies as in 3rd edition, bigger footprints, and finally set unit sizes of 5 or 10...

yup, and they actually had the Apoc rules set which played extremely well at 28mm with massive games as well

I do think however that for epic visual spectacle 8mm has a hell of a lot going for it, truly huge armies battling it out with all the massive toys in full place

leopard wrote:

I do think however that for epic visual spectacle 8mm has a hell of a lot going for it, truly huge armies battling it out with all the massive toys in full place

Honestly, it's more about the vehicles and titan-sized war machines. The infantry in itself tends to be "blurry" when pictures are taken to the size of the battlefield. When you zoom on individual units can you really appreciate their details, but let's be honest ; that hardly happens in an Epic-sized battle.

At least with 28/32 mm, it's a bit more than color spots on the map.