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Raven Guard Chapter Tactics

Battle Demi-Company

Chapter Master
Shield Eternal, Thunder Hammer, Artificer Armor, Jump Pack

(5) Tactical Squad
Meltagun, Combi-Melta
Drop Pod

(5) Tactical Squad
Meltagun, Combi-Melta
Drop Pod

(5) Tactical Squad
Meltagun, Combi-Melta
Drop Pod

(5) Assault Squad
2x Flamers
Drop Pod

(5) Devestator Squad
4x Grav-Cannons
Drop Pod

Raptor Wing

Stormtalon
Skyhammer

Stormtalon
Skyhammer

Land Speeder
Multimelta

Shadowstrike Kill Team

(5) Scout Squad
Camo Cloaks, Bolters, Missile Launcher

(5) Scout Squad
Camo Cloaks, Bolters, Missile Launcher

(10) Vanguard Veterans (CM)
Jump Packs
4x Storm Shields, Power Fist, 2x Power Axes

(10) Vanguard Veterans
Jump Packs
4x Storm Shields, 2x Power Fist, 2x Power Axes

[2000]

As per the norm here, I get to re-roll to see who deploys first. I get 4+ on all Reserves first turn. Move/Assault with jump packs and re-roll to-wound HoW. So, to really get mileage out of that, I went for 20 VV and my CM coming in first turn without a roll (Shadowstrike) and assaulting into the nastiest stuff I need to kill, usually going for Combat Squads to maximize assault targets and with their attacks, they should be hitting pretty hard. With Shrouded on the 1st turn, that should help a bit to mitigate incoming fire from Overwatch. With "Know When to Strike", I can get more Drop Pods in on 1st turn, plus my Raptor Wing too. Ideally, I would bring in the Grav Devs, plus the Tacticals to plop onto objectives. The Assault squad can come down and flame anything squishy, as needed. The Scouts are vulnerable, but have Shrouded 1st turn and by the time my army hits, it should take the heat off them. 55 Dudes at 2k isn't exactly heavy on boots, but it has a lot of rules acting as a force multiplier. Having the BDC means so many Objective Secured units to help in missions where that matters.

But the jist of it is a brutal alpha strike. Does it look doable? Viable? Any glaring issues?

Honestly I would split the Grav into the tacticals. More bodies and not a 245 point suicide squad. I love the Chapter Master but where does he go in the list? Also CCW scouts with a melta bomb in a LSS with Heavy Flamer is probably the best support for the Vanguard and counters a counter deepstrike for 2d6 scatter for your opponent.

Edit: The CM cannot benefit with joining the Shadow strike Kill Team Vanguard, he will not get to charge on the deeps trike as the rule only effects Vanguard.

I just checked the FAQ GW posted and it said special rules affected ICs. Where is it that states otherwise? So many rules nowadays!

Worst case, I downgrade him a bit and drop the jump pack and stick him in the Assault squad for a bit of a combat buff to them.

I like the LSS Scout idea! Probably get a pot more mileage out of them vs the current loadout.

I thought the Grav Devs would give me a definite way to drop a major threat on arrival. Big nasties that I can't afford to let get even a single turn kinda thing. Maybe if I can find some points to make it a full 10-man for Combat Squadding?

EDIT: Added a snip of the FAQ ruling where it seemingly allows ICs to benefit from Formation rules.

Drop Raptor wing - deck out your vanguards. They get 5 point power weapons and they are charging turn 1 - at the very least every single one of them should have a power axe.

Also in this formation you need 2 scout squads to get the no scatter for your kill team - take LSS with this - it increases your chances of them living if you go second. I'd also take at least 3 units of scouts in the kill team.

Also why not take pinion?Use pinion - Drop Grav devs and reduce them to las cannons or plasma cannons - take a 50 point 5 man scout snipe squad that gives the laz cannons ignore cover all game.

It would be great if you could squeeze a libi conclave into this list also. If you can cast invis on one of your vangards it should keep them murdering stuff all game. It could also get your Chapter master into combat first turn with electro dispalcement swapping with a tac squad in a drop pod.

Let us know how the list runs - ive been toying with how to run it for a few days now.

Pinion doesn't have Obj. Sec. That was the main reason.

Really don't think the Raptor Wing is worthwhile? Cheap air support that arrives T1 on a 4+.

Admittadly, dropping it gives me more upgrades and lets me go for LSS Scouts. Sooo... might be a good call.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Pinion doesn't have Obj. Sec. That was the main reason.

Really don't think the Raptor Wing is worthwhile? Cheap air support that arrives T1 on a 4+.

Admittadly, dropping it gives me more upgrades and lets me go for LSS Scouts. Sooo... might be a good call.

In my experience flyers just aren't worth their bang per buck. Though I didn't even realize in my head that they can come on turn 1 with this formation but they do benefit from the talon strike force rules too - so that is really cool. If you wanted to spam them - this is probably the best formation to do it with.

The 1850 I was working on looks like this.
Talon strike force

Pinion demi

Chaplain - Jump-pack
3x5x tac squads - grav cannon - rhino
5x assault squad - jumppacks
5x dev 4x lascannon
5x scout 5x sniper rifles
3x scout bike

Shadow-strike kill team
5x scouts/ Camo LSS
5x Scouts/ Camo LSS
5x Scouts/ Camo LSS
10x Vanguards -3x PF/LC/ 4x power axe 3 x power maul 4x SS
10x Vanguards- 3x PF/LC/ 4x Power axe 3x LC 4x SS

So with 150 more points you could do a lot of things. Personally I'd take 2 more units of scout bikes or 1 more unit and add some models to the assault squad with the chaplain. I really have no idea how well it will play but I will try it out soon and let you know. Possibly this weekend.

Kinda skips the Drop Pod idea I was hoping to use to make a more meaningful alpha strike with. I do like the LSS idea a lot.

Any word on that IC with Formation thing? I am still hopeful I can toss my CM into the SSKT.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Kinda skips the Drop Pod idea I was hoping to use to make a more meaningful alpha strike with. I do like the LSS idea a lot.

Any word on that IC with Formation thing? I am still hopeful I can toss my CM into the SSKT.

From what i hear on dakka now the answer is no. Pre FAQ everyone thought it was fine. My personal opinion is they can't but we will see when the official FAQ comes out.

I can tell you from personal experience though that LSS are Amazing - stars on the battlefield every time I play them. Blinding a unit before you charge it with VV is going to insure you crush whatever that squad is - maybe even a wolfstar if you get lucky. (it would have to be before they got powers up.)

 Xenomancers wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Kinda skips the Drop Pod idea I was hoping to use to make a more meaningful alpha strike with. I do like the LSS idea a lot.

Any word on that IC with Formation thing? I am still hopeful I can toss my CM into the SSKT.

From what i hear on dakka now the answer is no. Pre FAQ everyone thought it was fine. My personal opinion is they can't but we will see when the official FAQ comes out.

I can tell you from personal experience though that LSS are Amazing - stars on the battlefield every time I play them. Blinding a unit before you charge it with VV is going to insure you crush whatever that squad is - maybe even a wolfstar if you get lucky. (it would have to be before they got powers up.)

I posted a pic from the FB FAQ that seems to say that you can put an IC into a formation and get the rules. I know they aren't 100% official yet, but it seems likely they won't change the rulings themselves.

I got to pick up a few LSS now. Thanks!

You might want like 5 of them

The link to the faq actually reads underneath that they made a mistake and that ic do not benefit from formation or unit rules. Read it on the Facebook picture underneath

Agreed. The FB posts from GW indicated that page was incorrect and to use the typed version in the comments portion. In the comments portion, it states "No".

Even lacking Obj Secured, I still prefer the Pinion Battle Company. The ability to ignore cover and take Scout Bikes with Locator Beacons really helps this army hit hard on turn 1.

KillswitchUK wrote:
The link to the faq actually reads underneath that they made a mistake and that ic do not benefit from formation or unit rules. Read it on the Facebook picture underneath

This. Read the text rather than the image. It's more clear in some of the other faq images that they're glitched (some simply make zero sense with answers not at all relating to the question). So going by the written text rather than the image, no ICs can't join formations (and keep their rules). A shame bc I was planning to run a similar list to this with a JP chaplain, and now have nowhere to put him.

Although I only ran one VG squad, here's a link to my 1850 Talon SF list:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/692147.page

Personally I think the flyers are a good move (I'm running them in my list), as not only do they provide decent anti-air, but they're also good at taking out ground teq and vehicles too. Especially w the bonus from their formation.

Regarding your alpha strike components the VG look good. Only think I'd be inclined to change would be the addition of an extra PF or two


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In regards to Pinion BC vs DBC, I think Demi is the way to go. Not only because it allowed me to take dev centurions instead of a devastator squad, but also because the obsec is invaluable in both maelstrom and EW missions. 4 ignores cover LCs and the option of outflanking units (which you probably won't use bc the scouts will be hanging backfield with the devastators) simply isn't worth imo. At least not when compared to the alternative

Oh my god.... You mean I had to READ the comments of a FB post. Sigh.

Well hell, I guess I will just trim his fat or make him a Chappy and stick him with the Drop Pod Assault Squad. Gives them a bit more longevity anyhow.

I may have points to go Grav in the Tac Squads if I rework it a bit. Might give me better punch.

This has all been extremely helpful. I will rework the list and repost it at some point today (when I am at home, not at work!).

If you are playing straight book missions, then I can see the advantage of Objective Secured with the Demi Company.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Oh my god.... You mean I had to READ the comments of a FB post. Sigh.

Well hell, I guess I will just trim his fat or make him a Chappy and stick him with the Drop Pod Assault Squad. Gives them a bit more longevity anyhow.

I may have points to go Grav in the Tac Squads if I rework it a bit. Might give me better punch.

This has all been extremely helpful. I will rework the list and repost it at some point today (when I am at home, not at work!).

I'd keep the jetpacks - ravengard reroll their hammer of wrath - plus you need your chap or capt to go somewhere. I plan to use them with a chaplain to hunt enemy objective grabbers.

Ignore cover grav cannons are a GREAT punch IMO.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Kinda skips the Drop Pod idea I was hoping to use to make a more meaningful alpha strike with. I do like the LSS idea a lot.

Any word on that IC with Formation thing? I am still hopeful I can toss my CM into the SSKT.

From what i hear on dakka now the answer is no. Pre FAQ everyone thought it was fine. My personal opinion is they can't but we will see when the official FAQ comes out.

I can tell you from personal experience though that LSS are Amazing - stars on the battlefield every time I play them. Blinding a unit before you charge it with VV is going to insure you crush whatever that squad is - maybe even a wolfstar if you get lucky. (it would have to be before they got powers up.)

I posted a pic from the FB FAQ that seems to say that you can put an IC into a formation and get the rules. I know they aren't 100% official yet, but it seems likely they won't change the rulings themselves.

I got to pick up a few LSS now. Thanks!

PSA FOR EVERYONE, DO NOT USE THE PHOTOS IN THE FAQ READ THE ACTUAL POST!

Some of the independent character rules in the photo version of the FAQ got screwed up and facebook won't let GW change them so some have the wrong answer matching the wrong question.

this is the actual answer from that FAQ:
"If I’m using a special Detachment, such as the Nemesis Strike Force Detachment, and add Independent Characters from Battle Brother Factions (e.g. the Librarius Conclave), can they all still benefit from the first turn deployment and come in together?
A: No, the rules for Detachments and Formations only apply to models/units that are part of the Detachment or Formation."

TAKE TWO!

Battle Demi-Company

Chaplain
[90]

(5) Tactical Squad
Grav-Cannon
Drop Pod
[140] x2 [280]

(5) Tactical Squad
Meltagun, Combi-Melta
Drop Pod
[125]

(5) Assault Squad (Chaplain)
2x Flamers
Drop Pod
[115]

(10) Devestator Squad
4x Grav-Cannons
Drop Pod
[315]

[925]

Raptor Wing

Stormtalon
Skyhammer
[115]

Stormtalon
Skyhammer
[115]

Land Speeder
Multimelta
[55]

[275]

Shadowstrike Kill Team

(5) Scout Squad
Bolt Pistols, CCWs, Combi-Melta
Land Speeder Storm
Heavy Flamer
[105]

(5) Scout Squad
Bolt Pistols, CCWs, Combi-Melta
Land Speeder Storm
Heavy Flamer
[105]

(10) Vanguard Veterans
Jump Packs
3x Storm Shields, 2x Power Fist, 3x Power Axes
[295]

(10) Vanguard Veterans
Jump Packs
3x Storm Shields, 2x Power Fist, 3x Power Axes
[295]

[800]

[2000]
So, I tried to take as much advice as possible without blowing up my wallet with new purchases.

Thoughts on this version?

Still a lot of vanguards not carrying weapons. I'd say drop a body from each vanguard squad if you can't find the points for more power weapons - they absolutely must have power weapons to be effective. They don't need to be able to combat squad ether - they can disorganized charge and still get +1 attack. Also a neat trick you can use with vanguards is equip a LC to your powerfist - both are specialist weapons so you get +1 attack with ether weapon as you choose - and they are only 5 points! Gotta do it man.

Another small thing - flamer on LSS - I'd keep it as a HB because you can still shoot it when you jink. Also with an assault unit inside - the heavy flamer will just make your charge harder but likely wont have much else to shoot at.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Still a lot of vanguards not carrying weapons. I'd say drop a body from each vanguard squad if you can't find the points for more power weapons - they absolutely must have power weapons to be effective. They don't need to be able to combat squad ether - they can disorganized charge and still get +1 attack. Also a neat trick you can use with vanguards is equip a LC to your powerfist - both are specialist weapons so you get +1 attack with ether weapon as you choose - and they are only 5 points! Gotta do it man.

Another small thing - flamer on LSS - I'd keep it as a HB because you can still shoot it when you jink. Also with an assault unit inside - the heavy flamer will just make your charge harder but likely wont have much else to shoot at.

Awesome point about the disorganized charge. Forgot all about that. Well, just a few guys cut absolutely buys me a few more power weapons. Just dropping one guy per squad nets me four power weapons. Trading a single body for a drastically increased ability to kill seems a good idea. Plus, painting all those glow effects will be fun.

As for the LSS, I like having the HF just for the sake of tossing the template out on squishy campers (did this with my IG all the time), but I see your point. Likely will magnetize and see what works best for me. Likely will be the HBs, but options are good!

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Still a lot of vanguards not carrying weapons. I'd say drop a body from each vanguard squad if you can't find the points for more power weapons - they absolutely must have power weapons to be effective. They don't need to be able to combat squad ether - they can disorganized charge and still get +1 attack. Also a neat trick you can use with vanguards is equip a LC to your powerfist - both are specialist weapons so you get +1 attack with ether weapon as you choose - and they are only 5 points! Gotta do it man.

Another small thing - flamer on LSS - I'd keep it as a HB because you can still shoot it when you jink. Also with an assault unit inside - the heavy flamer will just make your charge harder but likely wont have much else to shoot at.

Awesome point about the disorganized charge. Forgot all about that. Well, just a few guys cut absolutely buys me a few more power weapons. Just dropping one guy per squad nets me four power weapons. Trading a single body for a drastically increased ability to kill seems a good idea. Plus, painting all those glow effects will be fun.

As for the LSS, I like having the HF just for the sake of tossing the template out on squishy campers (did this with my IG all the time), but I see your point. Likely will magnetize and see what works best for me. Likely will be the HBs, but options are good!

Seems like a good trade - if anyone is naked make it the storm shields and try to deploy them where they make base contact with the heavy hitters and take the over-watch. Hope this list is fun for you - let us know how it goes.

Swapping one guy for 4 Power weapons is an excellent trade - definitely agree w this point.

Just noticed your Raptor Wing LS has a MM; I'd ditch this bc it's only going to make it more of a fire magnet - the bonuses afforded by it staying alive are too good to have this thing attracting extra fire. Plus there's plenty of anti-tank elsewhere in the list and one snapshotting MM isn't going to be making a huge difference (you'd be a fool not to jink).

If you dropped the MM and reverted one of the grav tac squads back to melta/combi-melta, you'd have enough points to upgrade the skyhammers to LCs on the Talons. Personal preference, but I find the lascannons to be worth the points, and that way you're also not losing out on anti-tank by dropping the MM as you have the extra melta tac squad too.

Edit: I also think having a second melta tac squad makes for a better alpha strike, bringing both melta units and the dev squad in turn 1. I wouldn't worry about the devastators being too shot up as anything posing a real threat should be tied up by a unit of 9 VG (or more likely dead by the time it comes to their turn). The remaining grav squad and assault marines can be brought on later to snap up objectives. Don't necessarily feel the need to play aggressive with the AM; those two flamers make for an excellent deterrent in the form of overwatch depending on what your opponent brings to the table. Hide them in cover on some backfield objective and you should be right.

Last revision, I swear!

Battle Demi-Company

Chaplain
[90]

(5) Tactical Squad
Grav-Cannon
Drop Pod
[140]

(5) Tactical Squad
Grav-Cannon, Imperial Space Marine
Drop Pod
[140]

(5) Tactical Squad
Meltagun, Combi-Melta
Drop Pod
[125]

(8) Assault Squad (Chaplain)
2x Flamers
Drop Pod
[157]

(10) Devestator Squad
4x Grav-Cannons
Drop Pod
[315]

[967]

Raptor Wing

Stormtalon
Skyhammer
[115]

Stormtalon
Skyhammer
[115]

Land Speeder
[45]

[265]

Shadowstrike Kill Team

(5) Scout Squad
Bolt Pistols, CCWs, Combi-Melta
Land Speeder Storm
Heavy Bolter
[105]

(5) Scout Squad
Bolt Pistols, CCWs, Combi-Melta
Land Speeder Storm
Heavy Bolter
[105]

(9) Vanguard Veterans
Jump Packs
2x Storm Shields, 2x Power Fist, 2x Power Axes, 4x Lightning Claws
[278]

(9) Vanguard Veterans
Jump Packs
2x Storm Shields, 2x Power Fist, 2x Power Axes, 4x Lightning Claws
[278]

[766]

[1998]

I think that covers pretty much most of the suggestions and keeps the flavor of the list, along with a few preferences of my own. Now to just go get my hands on some Land Speeder Storms!

Looks great. Is the imperial space marine supposed to be included? Glad you were able to get one - I missed my chance. Good hunting.

Nice. I'm yet to use my Imperial Marine, looking forward to it though

 Xenomancers wrote:
Looks great. Is the imperial space marine supposed to be included? Glad you were able to get one - I missed my chance. Good hunting.

Yep. I am going to run him and I didn't want to forget.

 Brother Payne wrote:
Nice. I'm yet to use my Imperial Marine, looking forward to it though

I figured I might as well get some use from the guy. That gun is gross.

 Brother Payne wrote:
Nice. I'm yet to use my Imperial Marine, looking forward to it though

I figured I might as well get some use from the guy. That gun is gross.

Those guns! Who decided it was a good idea to give him a pistol version as well

With the Talon Strike Force, you can take take a Captain with Cataphracti Armor. He has Slow and Purposeful which could confer to the Devastators. The Captain can also act as a bit of a wound soaker for the unit. I'd place the Captain and Chaplain in a 5 strong Dev unit to tank wounds an try to keep this unit firing a full strength while taking advantage of Slow and Purposeful.

To get the points, I'd drop 3 Assault Marines, 5 Devastator Marines and switch the Tactical Squad Grav Cannon for something cheaper.

I'm building a bit of a similar list, but at 1850. I've played @ 20 games against Ravenguard since they go their updated rules. Ravenguard are one of those lesser utilized chapters, but are a blast to play with and against. It can and does hit very hard on turn 1.

 Sarigar wrote:
With the Talon Strike Force, you can take take a Captain with Cataphracti Armor. He has Slow and Purposeful which could confer to the Devastators. The Captain can also act as a bit of a wound soaker for the unit. I'd place the Captain and Chaplain in a 5 strong Dev unit to tank wounds an try to keep this unit firing a full strength while taking advantage of Slow and Purposeful.

This is actually a really neat idea! Might have to put it to use myself

Edit: This would also give you a much more definitive role for your HQ. Good call imo.

Hadn't thought about cataphractii armor, good idea. I just played a game vs Tau yesterday with a list very similar to this one albeit at the 1850pts lvl. We played mission 2 from Kau'yon and it was a blast!

I can't praise scouts and LSS enough. They did their job superbly and manage to stay alive throughout the game, killing stuff and scoring objectives at the end of the game. I tried assault cannon on the storms and I was amazed at how effective this weapon is on those guys (thanks BS4). I would strongly suggest taking three scout squads in the kill team. This should prevent bad outflanking rolls and, as I said, these guys are worth their weight in gold!