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So, for graduation I got Betrayel at calth and im having a hard time deciding on which legion. Here is a breakdown of the legions and why I like them.
Blood Angels.
I love the idea of a Blood Angel Moritat with duel inferno pistols. Sounds like fun to convert.
I like the idea of assault cannons being on pretty much every model
I Know Sanquinus will be badass when he comes out.
Alot of Jumppack infantry sounds fun. Their ROW sounds fun too. Well one.
Downside is we dont know their special units.
I like how they make assault GOOD
With their upgrade kit from GW, Easy source for Iconography without the forgeworld stuff.
Seriously, Blood Angel Moritats sound AWESOME. I might even convert one with two handflamers despite it not actually working.
Iron Warriors
Iron Havocs are Badass
Tyrants are awesome
Dont like the Domitar-ferrum that much.
I love artillery, but I get that itch from my IG with 9 thuddguns and 6 basilisks.
I actually hate Perturabo. He looks like such a boring model and primarch. Admitedly though, I want to duel with him using forgebreaker versus my friends Ferrus manus
The Tormentor would be fun to convert. But I wouldnever field it cause of the aformentioned dislike of Perty
They dont lend to the heraldry and so forth other legions do, sounds boring to convert.

Blood angels you have a cheaper and easy supply of bits in the plastic kits.

Be a easier modeling. And there style has nit changed far in 10k years. Cost wise far easier. You could even convert some 40k units to help bulk out.

Blood Angels, and when they finally release Sanguinius, you'll likely have the coolest looking Primarch

Both legions have tons of fans on the forums.

Go blood angels if you want to be assault focus (they are far from the only legion to make assault good), their primarch will have wings, which some will say is super-duper amazing. I wouldn't go to insane with them 'till we learn more about the legion's stuff.

Go Iron warriors if you want amazing shooting, with good LD, a tough-as-nails primarch who can whup major ass. The main downside being they are not as amazing in CC as BA, NL, SoH, etc.


the real questions are: do you like red, or silver? slower and durrable, or fast and stabby? Ornate, or utalitarian? How do you want your force to look?

 Brennonjw wrote:
the real questions are: do you like red, or silver? slower and durrable, or fast and stabby? Ornate, or utalitarian? How do you want your force to look?

This is what the OP should be thinking about - playstyle, visuals, interest in the fluff, etc. That's where the passion required to finish any army will come from. I wouldn't, say, make the decision for BA based on Moritats or assault cannon spam that might change in forthcoming books.

ok.
1: Dont care about either, but red would look cooler
2: I kinda like both playstyles
3: Ornate. the IW dont really lend to being fun to convert and add extra bling too.

Sound like your and Bangle! The only downside is that calth lends itself better to IW than the angels

Are BA and IW the only legions you are considering? There are certainly a ton of others, and some that nicely combine the aspects of both. A 3rd-company EC force is both shooty and punchy, does the speedy thing well and have a ton of room for bling. Though, out of the two your are looking at, BA certainly sounds more up your alley.

Go "iron withing, Iron without".

 Swampmist wrote:
Are BA and IW the only legions you are considering? There are certainly a ton of others, and some that nicely combine the aspects of both. A 3rd-company EC force is both shooty and punchy, does the speedy thing well and have a ton of room for bling. Though, out of the two your are looking at, BA certainly sounds more up your alley.

Well there are others but their kinda low
I love my regular SM white scars army, but collecting a HH version seems weird
Alpha Legion seems cool if not for the ability to get any other unit I want. Some of the other legions units would look baller in AL color.
Ultra smurfs would be cool if not for fulmentarus terminators & Power Sword Weilding breachers.
others are meh for me.

Iron Within, Iron Without! However from what youve talked about i think the blood angels are what you want although if what you want is close combat then the EC are your best bet, in most ways they have the best close combat of any legion in speed and stength and the best bonuses for assaults.

I am biased towards IW. I like the color scheme far more, much easier to paint while still looking awesome on the field. IW makes it rain missiles. We shoot more missiles than the Tau. We put missiles on our missiles that shoot missiles. I like to think an initial volley by the Iron Warriors before plodding across the field looks something like that missile in Iron Man, Damocles I think its called. Iron Warriors are so awesome they even put hazard stripes on their armor to warn other people about how awesome they are.

Blood Angles(that was on purpose) have nice hair I guess if you are into that kind of thing.

3 words: Ride the Ironfire

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
Are BA and IW the only legions you are considering? There are certainly a ton of others, and some that nicely combine the aspects of both. A 3rd-company EC force is both shooty and punchy, does the speedy thing well and have a ton of room for bling. Though, out of the two your are looking at, BA certainly sounds more up your alley.

Well there are others but their kinda low
I love my regular SM white scars army, but collecting a HH version seems weird
Alpha Legion seems cool if not for the ability to get any other unit I want. Some of the other legions units would look baller in AL color.
Ultra smurfs would be cool if not for fulmentarus terminators & Power Sword Weilding breachers.
others are meh for me.

What do you mean by the bolded bit? You wouldn't have to take those things if you don't like them.

Sorry, I meant those looked awesome. Finals are messing aronf with me. But im mostly not interested in any other legion. BA looks fun, the dreads look super fun, they look fun. I mean, Assault caqnnon attack bikes? YES.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Sorry, I meant those looked awesome. Finals are messing aronf with me. But im mostly not interested in any other legion. BA looks fun, the dreads look super fun, they look fun. I mean, Assault caqnnon attack bikes? YES.

Those will probably stay, but again: blood angels have 2 MAJOR issues with their rules being beyond vague/way to strong, and knowing FW, those will be addressed soon (hopefully)

Yeah don't get your hopes up for staying the assault cannon legion for too long. I have a feeling it will be nerfed next real FAQ to only include tanks and terminators.

Why, they are not particularly strong? Like what is so bad with the amount of assault cannons. And they have had chancesto address it but have not. I dont see how itis ague.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Why, they are not particularly strong? Like what is so bad with the amount of assault cannons. And they have had chancesto address it but have not. I dont see how itis ague.

there's a diference: with it's current wording, BA can bring the best attack bikes, the best dreadnoughts (2 assault cannons, 2 dreadnought CCWs), funny heavy support squads, tanks with 4+ assault cannons. for experimental tech, they suuuuure do have the ability to bring a lot of it. compare BA to IF, who have the same gun, but it's limited to terminators.

Plus yeah they have had a long time to do it as far as we are concerned but look how long it took them to nerf the plasma pistol moritat. FW is notoriously behind when it comes to FAQing anything whether it needs it or not. Some of us were running that guy for years.

Run things how you like, but magnetize where you can and dont get too set on using them as a major part of your playstyle. Some of us had 30 Tyrants and completely had to change the way we ran IW from scratch.

I've been LOVING my blood angels in 30k. They play how I've always wanted them to in 40k but haven't in over a decade. It's single handedly gotten me back into the hobby.

 Walnuts wrote:
I've been LOVING my blood angels in 30k. They play how I've always wanted them to in 40k but haven't in over a decade. It's single handedly gotten me back into the hobby.

And would you still love them if there was no Hand Flamer Moritat or only Assault Cannons on Dreadnoughts and Terminators?

I would. They sound fun to convert anyway.

Dude go bangles

you get a light saber

also an ungodly amount of conversion and kit bashing options.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Walnuts wrote:
I've been LOVING my blood angels in 30k. They play how I've always wanted them to in 40k but haven't in over a decade. It's single handedly gotten me back into the hobby.

And would you still love them if there was no Hand Flamer Moritat or only Assault Cannons on Dreadnoughts and Terminators?

Hey! Thanks for assuming I only picked back up an army I've played almost exclusively since the mid-90s just so that I could power game with it! You friendly dakka-ites are the best!

I'm going to defend myself and my faction a bit here, but OP, take note, I'm trying not to thread derail, I'm going to actually discuss the pros and cons of some blood angel units, along with tactics and play styles, which might help you decide if this is the army for you.

Blood Angels are unplayable in 40k, which as a system is already kind of unplayable. Blood Angels in 30k are appropriately scary, and in a system that is still fun, balanced, and fast paced. This is nice nice, and considering they have no special units, they kind of need it. Your assault marines will be clashing with reavers and gal vorbak, and your praetor will be clashing with primarchs. Have at it (you can still come out on top).

I don't use a hand flamer moritat. Many dakka-ites have claimed through talking with forgeworld that he will be FAQed away. I believe them. I also don't think he's that great. He can only hurt T6 or less models, and nothing with an armor value, and only if you scatter reallllly close to them.

The twinferno moritat, on the other hand, which the OP mentioned, is deadly against anything he lands near, even a titan (with of course, the caveat, that he needs to land really reallllly super close to them). I used him in one game, and was predictably, a touch underwhelmed. He landed near a tank, blew it up, then a few pot shots put a wound on him, and a charge from a lone centurion finished him off. He didn't make his points back, and he didn't really do anything else to justify being on the battlefield. I could see using him again, and he is a cool looking model, but he won't be a staple of my list by any means. He's an alpha strike unit that will run you 145-180pts, which is a lot to invest in a single model. I could see him working well if you're doing that RoW that lets you first turn deep strike, but that requires a TON of assault marines, and I could also see him being okay, but not stellar, at leading a squad of destroyers. I only say okay because destroyers eat up MEQs in the shooting phase. They don't really need a moritat's help with that. The coolest thing I think he could do for you, is if you managed to have him survive the turn after he deep strikes in, get him into hand to hand by himself with a huge blob of enemy marines, his rad grenades will give them all -1T, allowing the rest of your blood angels to wound them on 2+. Now THAT'S amazing. So yeah, he can be good, but very situationally, whereas a primus medicae, librarian, or praetor will be good almost 100% of the time.

Assault cannon terminators are cool, but hardly OP. They don't even come close to being as good as the imperial fist terminators who can take assault cannons AND storm shields, a real 30k rarity. Also they're a bit unimpressive compared to a lot of the other unique terminators that other legions get access too. I'm working on a squad of these guys anyway, but they probably won't see much use unless I really feel like I need an extra objective capping squad for some reason where my typical troop choices won't fit the bill. Very situational.

The assault cannon dreadnoughts are cool, but I'd like to point out that they basically just make a bad dreadnought playable. The best dreadnought is, almost without a doubt, the twin kheres contemptor mortis, with or without havoc launcher. Most marine players have one or two of these guys kicking around. I have one, with a havoc launcher, personally. If I'm grabbing one dreadnought for my force, 90% of the time it's going to be him. Twin close combat dreadnoughts are cool, but hard to play with. If you go the cortus route, they become cheap and fast. I have a converted death company contemptor that I built years ago for 40k who I think makes a good contemptor cortus. He catches opponents offguard and usually managed to do a lot of damage. I also have the dreaded two close combat weapon two melee weapon comtemptor that people on this form love to hate on. He's expensive. More so than the contemptor cortus, and more so than the contemptor mortis. He's worse-ish in hand to hand than the cortus, and worse at shooting than the mortis. You're paying for versatility. I'll go ahead and say it's worth it if you can afford it, mainly because oh my god does the model look cool. I've used mine in one game. First turn one of his assault cannons blew up. This will happen to you so get used to it.

Now, on to the REAL assault cannon spam that Blood Angels can pull that most people on this forum seem to ignore while spazzing out about dreadnoughts and terminators.
LAND SPEEDERS AND ATTACK BIKES.

Assault cannons on either one of these are, simply put, a steal.
45 pts for an attack bike with an assault cannon is awesome, as is 55 for a speeder with one.

I have one of each. I magnetized an graviton gun to my speeder as well, so if I can spare the 15 points, I now have a vehicle that I can deep strike right behind or to the side of an enemy tank that is likely to kill it in one round of shooting. Nice.

Here's the real reason why these units are essential to you. The biggest disadvantage you'll face as a Blood Angel player is, of course, that rule meaning you need more infantry units than vehicles. This is very limiting in a system where most troop choices are 250+ points. Being able to splash in a rock solid 45 point infantry model and unlock a vehicle slot is huge. Same goes for the speeder when you need a fast attack model that you can deep strike for their right of war.

Anyway, good luck with your decisions, I'm super biased as I LOVE Blood Angels and think they offer gorgeous modeling and painting opportunities, and have felt this way for 20 years.

Walnuts:


But hey, I'm just a "friendly dakka-ite".

Whooo boy, can of worms opened, smudge.

So, I mentioned enjoying playing my blood angels again, and them playing how I've always wanted them to in 40k but haven't in a decade. For me, this means scary jump pack guys, above average hand to hand, and some fancy dreads. For some reason you assumed this meant the most broken 30k power gaming possible.


You also seem very confused about the difference between a twinferno (ie, two inferno pistols) and a twin hand flamer moritat. I don't use a twin hand flamer moritat, nor have I ever, and I specifically stated I don't advocate his use in my post due to my belief that forgeworld stated he's going to get erratta'd out (and rightfully so). That stated, again, he's only good against a specific few targets. If he instakills a primarch, that is the absolute best possible use of him. Your 150 pt model just killed a 400 pt model. Congrats, you took a huge gamble before the game even started, and you won it. I have yet to encounter a primarch in all of my 30k games, and I feel like if I play another dozen 30k games against a dozen totally random opponents, I could still never encounter one. In most games, a twin hand flamer moritat would hit the ground, fry way less than his point cost worth of tactical marines, and get gunned down a turn later. And that's IF you scatter well.
So the model that I don't use, don't advocate the use of, and forgeworld says they're getting rid of, is situationally useful against a couple of possible targets, if you roll well on a scatter. WOW.

The twin-ferno moritat, ie wielding two inferno pistols, is a very legal HQ choice, who I advocate using with caution. He can kill anything, but has to get very, very close to it. You have to be very smart about how you use him, and you still have a good chance of getting gunned down before you shoot anything.

Much better HQ options, are a jacked up Praetor with a digital lasers and a master crafted paragon blade, who gets 7 attacks on the charge that wound MEQs on a 2+ at initiative, or a primus medicae who gives your 20 man assault squad FNP, or a biomancy librarian, who can give your 20 man assault squad 4+++ FNP, give a 20 man enemy squad -1 S and -1 T (letting all your bangels wound them on 2+), or hulk up to S9 AP2 T7 with a force stave and iron arm.
These are HQ options that aren't situationally useful, they're ALWAYS useful.

Next, don't compare BA or any other legion to SW to TS. They're screwed right now. They deserve rules, and good ones, ASAP. Rewind time to before book VI, when Blood Angels were just as untouched as those two legions, and I had no desire to play the game. Excluding players isn't a good thing.

Also if Blood Angels become OP when they do get around to getting their special units and primarchs, that's something that can be worried about then. I have a fun and competitive army for the first time in over a decade. I'm not going to stress about the fact that the way their rules look right now this could lead to them becoming OP at some time in the future, at some date, maybe, possibly. Or not. Shoot, it took them 5 years to give them 3 pages of rules. How long are the primarch and other special units going to take? Another 5? Cry me a river if blood angels are ruining the 30k tournament scene in 2021, okay?

Dreadnoughts are awesome in 30k. I never said they weren't. I've always loved dreadnoughts, and played the crap out of them, even in 40k editions where they were bad, like 3rd (but not 4th, I'm not a masochist).
They're powerful and versatile in 30k, as they should be, and that's part of what I love about the system.
The best dreadnought, the kheres mortis, everyone gets. Arguably the best melee dreadnought, the twin ccw cortus, also everyone gets.
The twin ccw normal contemptor, which everyone gets, is a very underwhelming option for most legions. For blood angels this isn't an issue. Deal with it.

I like Blood Angels for 30k because my dreadnoughts are cool, and my models are actually scary in hand to hand. I can take a 20 man assault marine squad with storm shields, 5 power weapons, and a primus medicae or librarian, have my opponent totally underestimate me because assault marines suck and everyone knows it, and then beat their gal vorbak and reavers in hand to hand. It's fun and makes for good games. It's also fluffy. Blood Angel assault marines should be a cut above. I don't know why you assume I'm advocating assault cannon spam when every assault cannon spam unit I mentioned I stated I own one of, and mostly use to make list building work. In 2000 pt games I've never fielded more than three assault cannons.

So back on topic...

Have you picked a legion yet Hotsauce?

Spoiler'd to avoid derailment + arguments


To OP: As I said earlier, the single best route will be going with the army you like the look, feel, and fluff of. 30k should NOT be about 'what's the best,' but rather 'what do I like best'.

Pretty much my comments. It would be interesting to see if they use the same offensive language here that they used in their PM to me.

OP - Do what feels fun. Might be based on ease of painting or the aesthetic, or the gameplay. I would advise against basing on gameplay, as the meta and rules can easily change, but it never hurt to consider it.